Opinions on Cloud based video surveillance systems ?

johnfitz

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In the beginning, I bought all the wrong equipment. I mean I was using an HP laptop and cameras with Chinese firmware. I thought things were okay until I found this forum. What an eye opener.
Similar story here but worse... cheap Hikvision NVR/cams bought about 5 years ago never works too well but didn't care they recorded stuff sort of... one cam broke a year ago, so I replaced that one and another with nice new cameras... upgraded to a better NVR... still didn't work too well and left it alone until 3 months ago... upgraded to a great Hik NVR and all great Hik cameras... things were working pretty well I thought... then I really started following this forum and realized all the common mistakes (or at least not the best choices) I made... more of a shock to the system than an eye opener in my case :)

So, I'm going to do the best I can with what I got, can't complain it's good stuff and I'll add BI into the mix soon enough.
 

Robert hocevar

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On average I install 3 Systems a week and always use a VPN for remote viewing. If a customer is really concerned about someone hacking into the system. The only way to really prevent that is to not have the system tied into the internet! Most of my larger commercial accounts have a dedicated Internet feed for there NVR. Not very practical for residential applications. I also stay away from cloud based systems. I also tell people who are in fear of having cameras hacked to not install them inside of there homes! If someone hacked into my system they would be pretty disappointed. they would see my driveway and my yard. which is not very exciting unless they catch me getting into my hot tub!
 

Teken

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That answers a question I've had that's really been nagging me just getting into this stuff... Thanks
Truth be told, security has always been a passion for me as this was the industry I was in. Now, its just a serious hobby that enables me to do more, know more, and prevent more. :thumb: I participate in this forum and many more as every day someone - somewhere - offers a great nugget of knowledge.

I don't know who coined the phrase Nobody codes better - Than everyone or something along those lines.

Essentially, I've learned more from people who are NOT in the security industry vs are. As there are so many people with diverse back grounds and experiences the knowledge they have in their head - priceless. One only has to watch any random YouTube channel to see how Joe Schmoe is able to do, make, create, something that's so incredible with bare scraps / throw away.

The same ingenuity and creativity is seen on this forum too . . .

Anytime I see a so called welder / farmer begin some random project I always sit up and take note. Just these two professions require incredible talent, outside of the box thinking, and problem solving on the go. There are millions of other professions too that require flat out imagination.

This is why nobody is every going to catch every hole in a operating system . . .

Something I live by and try to remember when things are getting tough:

Impossible - Simply takes longer

The impossible are for those who lack imagination
 

wittaj

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Absolutely. I have been saying that for years.

Through marketing, these consumer grade companies have convinced the average consumer that poor nighttime videos are acceptable. Consumers are conditioned to believe that you cannot get good quality night images from surveillance cameras.

Look at all the countless Nextdoor and FB posts where people are posting crap video and pics and not one person ever says "hey there are cameras that can give you better images", or if someone does, they are ignored as someone doesn't want to accept something is better than their $250 Ring camera... It is just accepted that this is the best that can be done.

The police are shocked when something happens and I can actually provide them video and pictures that are useful. Even they are conditioned to believe that good night video isn't possible. Their exact words are "What Ring camera captured this?" And I am like it ain't no Ring LOL.
 

wittaj

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And look at that, Ring recently updated their terms and conditions and are immediately in effect regardless of where you are in your subscription period...sounds like they can change it at any time to me despite what the cloud-based fanboys have been saying on this thread...


Here are some nice nuggets the reinforce what we have been saying about the problems with cloud-based:

Ring is free to revise these Terms or any other part of this Agreement at any time by updating this page. If we make changes to these Terms that we consider material, we will make reasonable efforts to notify you by placing a notice on the ring.com website, notifying you through the Services, by sending you an email, or by some other means. By continuing to use the Products and Services after such changes, you are expressing your acknowledgement and acceptance of the changes. Please check these Terms periodically for updates.

Additionally, by electing to publicly share your Content via the Services to other users or the general public, in addition to the license granted above, you give Ring the right, without any compensation or obligation to you, to access and use your Content and related location information for the purposes of publicly sharing such recordings and information with current and future users and allowing those users to comment on the Content.
 

Smilingreen

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And look at that, Ring recently updated their terms and conditions and are immediately in effect regardless of where you are in your subscription period...sounds like they can change it at any time to me despite what the cloud-based fanboys have been saying on this thread...


Here are some nice nuggets the reinforce what we have been saying about the problems with cloud-based:

Ring is free to revise these Terms or any other part of this Agreement at any time by updating this page. If we make changes to these Terms that we consider material, we will make reasonable efforts to notify you by placing a notice on the ring.com website, notifying you through the Services, by sending you an email, or by some other means. By continuing to use the Products and Services after such changes, you are expressing your acknowledgement and acceptance of the changes. Please check these Terms periodically for updates.

Additionally, by electing to publicly share your Content via the Services to other users or the general public, in addition to the license granted above, you give Ring the right, without any compensation or obligation to you, to access and use your Content and related location information for the purposes of publicly sharing such recordings and information with current and future users and allowing those users to comment on the Content.
Interesting. I got that e-mail notification yesterday. I don't own a Ring camera. I Never have owned a Ring camera. Never have signed up to be on Rings mailing list. Which one of you jokers sent my e-mail address to Ring? :wtf::D
 

looney2ns

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And look at that, Ring recently updated their terms and conditions and are immediately in effect regardless of where you are in your subscription period...sounds like they can change it at any time to me despite what the cloud-based fanboys have been saying on this thread...


Here are some nice nuggets the reinforce what we have been saying about the problems with cloud-based:

Ring is free to revise these Terms or any other part of this Agreement at any time by updating this page. If we make changes to these Terms that we consider material, we will make reasonable efforts to notify you by placing a notice on the ring.com website, notifying you through the Services, by sending you an email, or by some other means. By continuing to use the Products and Services after such changes, you are expressing your acknowledgement and acceptance of the changes. Please check these Terms periodically for updates.

Additionally, by electing to publicly share your Content via the Services to other users or the general public, in addition to the license granted above, you give Ring the right, without any compensation or obligation to you, to access and use your Content and related location information for the purposes of publicly sharing such recordings and information with current and future users and allowing those users to comment on the Content.
That right their is reason to dump Rings ASS immediately. But the masse's have no idea what is in the TOS. :idk:
 

looney2ns

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The Automation Guy

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I hadn't really thought about it, but anyone that follows Google knows they have an extremely long history of starting projects/apps/services and then suddenly cancelling them even when the services are widely used and popular. (There is actually an entire website dedicated to tracking these cancelled projects). Given their history, I would fully expect Google to cancel or change the Nest cloud services in the future. As bad as cloud services are, using Google for that service is an even worse idea due to their seemingly chaotic handling of these projects.
 

wittaj

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Ring is changing features and upping price. Users not happy

But wait a minute, I mentioned they could change conditions and fees at any time and a member (now banned) said:

And to answer your question "The other thing with cloud based is they can change the conditions of the service at any time or jack up the prices," umm, no they can't.. because with true enterprise grade solutions you're going to have a written / formal contract that goes through legal, etc and a TOS, etc... and minimum 1yr+ of service (we have some Verkada clients on 3+ year contracts and these new OpenEye clients on 2+ year contracts).. so no, they just can't JACK UP THE PRICE at any time.:rofl:

Gotta love the internet and the mis-information out there.. Does the banks jack up your rates on your auto loans / home loans also at any time or change conditions? :wtf:

OIY VEY
And yet look what Ring just did.....he accused us of mis-information, yet he is (well was LOL) the one spewing the misinformation...

Actually we had already proved it prior to this latest Ring post LOL, but still, just another reason to not go cloud based...
 

Teken

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I hadn't really thought about it, but anyone that follows Google knows they have an extremely long history of starting projects/apps/services and then suddenly cancelling them even when the services are widely used and popular. (There is actually an entire website dedicated to tracking these cancelled projects). Given their history, I would fully expect Google to cancel or change the Nest cloud services in the future. As bad as cloud services are, using Google for that service is an even worse idea due to their seemingly chaotic handling of these projects.
Appreciate you sharing that link as some of the services / products I was aware of. While easily the other 80% never heard of them never mind how long they were offered and In Service.

This isn't unique to Google and has played out for decades where a large corporation has an agenda. First to enter a market known to be profitable and consumer need. Next, to kill the competition using any of a dozen methods whether it be good old direct competition.

They make a competing product (This is good as competition drives innovation, more features, and often times reduces prices).

On the other front which has been ongoing for decades is they simply buy the other person out. Take on the IP and the technology / people and license out the same. In the extreme, as is seen with Apple, Google, et all they simply buy out the company (Own the IP & people) than turn around and shut everything down. :angry:

The whole premise of the so called Cloud First has literally been abused and pushed to the Nth degree of stupid. :facepalm:

We've already seen car makers try and do Rent / Lease you a feature in your very own car!. Only a stupid shit would buy into this sort of mentality but than again the world is literally filled with mindless drones / sheep. Billions of less than bright people just walk around going ba ba ba, nodding saying Yes Sir, How high Sir, etc.

People today simply don't ask questions . . .

They are more than happy to give up everything for the sake of convenience and ease . . .

Regardless, nice resource link! :thumb:
 

wittaj

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^Yep.

And then you have companies that enter the market, leave the market, and return to the market LOL.

Logitech at the time had a decent camera compared to the competition and then just up and got out of that business line and now they are kinda back into it.
 

Teken

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^Yep.

And then you have companies that enter the market, leave the market, and return to the market LOL.

Logitech at the time had a decent camera compared to the competition and then just up and got out of that business line and now they are kinda back into it.
In business one has to be In touch and follow the market trends, talk to your customer base, watch the revenue. I can understand why X product is killed off say a camera. Due to low sales and a company can't be burning cash on a loser product.

On the opposite side of the coin you'll see companies that just come out of no where and take on market share with unbelievable ease.

Think Ring, Blink, Wayze, etc.

All of us know none of the listed brands are even close to any professional / prosumer cameras talked about in this forum and others. But, what they have is great PR, Marketing, ease of use, and modern style. I have no problem with any of the brands I just listed out as in the big picture this drives innovation, increases feature sets, and provides almost anyone some kind of video security.

This in a round about way forces the 1st / 2nd tier vendors to push their wares as we have seen just in the last 24 months.

Just these two companies Dahua / Hikvision have literally brought the video security industry into the 21st century. Anyone who has been in the security field for any length of time knows of all the industries (surprisingly) security is the slowest to adopt, change, and integrate with new technologies.

Does anyone know how long the period it took for a security camera to go from 2 MP to 4 MP??? :thumbdown:

All of the 1st tier leaders Literally had and used the same 1980 technology for decades. Never mind talking about seeing a 1/ 1.8" ~ 1 / 1.2" sensors! All of these stupid and greedy shits still offer in 2022 1/ 2.8 ~ 1/2.7" sensors that go right up to 8MP???

So in the big picture I really don't mind companies like Arlow, Ring, Blink, Wayze, entering the market. As this takes away market share from 1st / 2nd tier vendors like Axis, Pelco, Mobotix, Bosch, Sony, Samsung. Chinese companies like Dahua, Hikvision have seen what the market wants and has pushed their engineers to meet that need.

They don't always hit the mark but than again they aren't just sitting around like the other brands I just listed up above offering you 1980 tech or charging you through the roof for sub par capability.

The biggest problem I see with Hikvision is their lack of serious iteration of existing products. Think of something so basic in 2022 like RTMP. On the opposite side is Dahua which seems like every week is coming out with something ground breaking / gimmick. :lmao:

This company has to offer hands down the most RAM yet every camera has a shit clock??? Given all the RAM and system memory when you ask the camera to fully utilize the features its advertised to have - they just go bonkers???

Dahua / Hikvision you can't invest three dollars on a onboard crystal RTC???? Dahua offer firmware that doesn't cause the Micro SD card to automagically corrupt or cause the hardware to crash its only 2022??? :rolleyes:
 
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In business one has to be In touch and follow the market trends, talk to your customer base, watch the revenue.
One of the best examples of this is Sears. They originally built their entire name on catalogue sales, mailing the product to your home. Then they really dropped the ball on internet sales. They should have been the leader. They should have been the Amazon. They already had most of the needed experience in place, and a huge set of customers already used to buying through the mail.
 

Teken

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One of the best examples of this is Sears. They originally built their entire name on catalogue sales, mailing the product to your home. Then they really dropped the ball on internet sales. They should have been the leader. They should have been the Amazon. They already had most of the needed experience in place, and a huge set of customers already used to buying through the mail.
Absolutely agree on all points . . .

I don't think there's anyone in North America who doesn't know the Craftsmen brand. Never mind having at least one hand tool from Craftsmen. When Sears folded and left Canada it was truly a sad day for a iconic brand & company. :embarrassed:

Probably the only other company that hit me the hardest was seeing the Armstrong Tool brand shut down. :angry:
 

wittaj

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Posted by someone on Nextdoor:

Regarding Vivint Smart Security! I only have myself to blame because I did not do my due diligence before I agreed to their terms. They've had several lawsuits that ended in multi-million dollar settlements over the years even when they were under a different name. I did cancel my contract within three business days. It's now been over 60 days and I have yet to get them to process my request. The only thing I received was an email saying that they received my request to cancel. In the meantime, my credit has taken a dip because the finance company has not been notified that the contract is no longer enforceable. They quickly took my money within 2 hours and set me up with a security system. When I requested an itemized list of what the equipment cost was that's when I ran into problems. Instead of providing the list they wanted to explain it to me and that to me was a red flag. Along with the blitzkrieg method of installing their software and hardware within an hour of meeting the sales rep. There have been multiple lawsuits against Vivint that I was not aware of at the time. So now I'm searching for an attorney because my credit is in bad condition because of this. And their response to everything is to call their customer service line. You should check the reviews on Vivint. No matter what the complaint. The response is always the same. Call their customer service line. Any help on this issue would be appreciated from any of my neighbors.
 
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