New guy needs help

[ParanoidGuy818]

Hi guys,

A few years ago my dad had a questionable guy install an "HD" system, Im not happy with the resolution/quality of this system, keeps malfunctioning and can't identify faces and license plates at 50 feet away which is how far the street is from my front door..

I want to replace this system with a 4K system, I've been looking at Lorex's "noctournals" line which advertises 250 ft nightvision and 175 ft color nightvision at 4k resolution, it says you can clearly identify faces at 75 feet and so on.

There are 2 packages, the first one is more expensive but the cameras seem better quality, it comes with 4 bullets and 4 domes, the domes have microphones for audio recording
My uncle found a guy who said he'll install, new wiring, programming for $1,200, is that fair?

Here are the 2 systems, please let me know what you guys think, I really appreciate your feedback and advice!

4K Ultra HD IP NVR System with 16-channel NVR and 8 Outdoor 4K 8MP IP Metal Cameras, 4x Optical Zoom Cameras, 250FT Night Vision

4K Ultra HD IP NVR System with 8 Outdoor 4K 8MP IP Cameras, 200ft Night Vision

Thank you!!

 

[mat200]

Welcome Paranoid

"... can't identify faces and license plates at 50 feet away which is how far the street is from my front door......I want to replace this system with a 4K system, I've been looking at Lorex's "noctournals" line which advertises 250 ft nightvision and 175 ft color nightvision at 4k resolution, it says you can clearly identify faces at 75 feet and so on."

A 4K / 8MP UHD camera will in theory will have a ID distance out to 25 feet ( where you reach 100 ppf ) at a 90 degree FOV. Some will use lower ppf specs to show better data for marketing to those who are new to this area. ( 25 feet is based on 100% effective pixels - and thus in reality the distance will just be reduced, especially in low light conditions ). Too have enough pixels at 50 feet the FOV would need to be 45 degrees, and remember that is theoretical - real performance will actually be less.

175 feet color nightvision! = marketing claims... big fluffy claim.

Bottom line, DO NOT trust the vendors and their marketing material for the performance of any of their cameras as their goal is to get you to buy from them and not their competitors.

Take some time to learn more, and identify what you want to really accomplish with your setup.

Those Lorex kits are Dahua OEM cameras and NVR and are nice solid products. Lorex had a very good sale on those during the last BF-cyberweek. Note that some of the more advanced features which Dahua OEM products have are not implemented in the Lorex versions of those products. So if you're paying a premium for the Lorex branded product you should check with Andy with the Dahua OEM versions of those products and see if you can get a better deal.

Compare those cameras to the following Dahua OEM models
IPC-HDW58xx
IPC-HFW58xx and IPC-HFW48xx
for the NVR:
NVR5216-16P-4KS2

Look for comparisons here between the 8MP versions and the 2MP starlight versions of those cameras. If you need superior low light performance then the 2MP starlight cameras are the ones most of us are picking up.

Do take a look at the notes in the wiki
IPCamTalk WiKi | IP Cam Talk

 

[tangent]

License plates at night require a dedicated camera with lots of zoom and an angle relative to the plate that's less than around 35 degrees.

Faces at any significant distance require lots of zoom and lots of light.

A-la-carte is better you can buy exactly what you need.

Avoid domes outdoors. EDIT: I mean actual domes with a plastic cover like you see inside many stores. Doesn't apply to cameras linked in OP.

 

[mat200]

Oh, and Tangent's note reminded me,

Some of the cameras which lorex are labeling as "dome" cameras are really what are called turret or even "eyeball" form factors.
Turrets form factors work well outdoors, however proper domes do not. ( those which have a plastic dome )

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Welcome Paranoid

"... can't identify faces and license plates at 50 feet away which is how far the street is from my front door......I want to replace this system with a 4K system, I've been looking at Lorex's "noctournals" line which advertises 250 ft nightvision and 175 ft color nightvision at 4k resolution, it says you can clearly identify faces at 75 feet and so on."

A 4K / 8MP UHD camera will in theory will have a ID distance out to 25 feet ( where you reach 100 ppf ) at a 90 degree FOV. Some will use lower ppf specs to show better data for marketing to those who are new to this area. ( 25 feet is based on 100% effective pixels - and thus in reality the distance will just be reduced, especially in low light conditions ). Too have enough pixels at 50 feet the FOV would need to be 45 degrees, and remember that is theoretical - real performance will actually be less.

175 feet color nightvision! = marketing claims... big fluffy claim.

Bottom line, DO NOT trust the vendors and their marketing material for the performance of any of their cameras as their goal is to get you to buy from them and not their competitors.

Take some time to learn more, and identify what you want to really accomplish with your setup.

Those Lorex kits are Dahua OEM cameras and NVR and are nice solid products. Lorex had a very good sale on those during the last BF-cyberweek. Note that some of the more advanced features which Dahua OEM products have are not implemented in the Lorex versions of those products. So if you're paying a premium for the Lorex branded product you should check with Andy with the Dahua OEM versions of those products and see if you can get a better deal.

Compare those cameras to the following Dahua OEM models
IPC-HDW58xx
IPC-HFW58xx and IPC-HFW48xx
for the NVR:
NVR5216-16P-4KS2

Look for comparisons here between the 8MP versions and the 2MP starlight versions of those cameras. If you need superior low light performance then the 2MP starlight cameras are the ones most of us are picking up.

Do take a look at the notes in the wiki
IPCamTalk WiKi | IP Cam Talk

For the LPR can refer to this link.

Dahua IPC-HFW5231E-Z12E LPR Talk

 

[ParanoidGuy818]

Firstly, I'd like thank everyone who responded, your advice is really helpful and Im starting to feel more confident and knowledgeable. Secondly excuse my late response, had some family issues and this project got side tracked.

Taking into consideration everyones advise. I asked my camera guy to make a custom package for me that suits my needs (i.e picking up license plates, identifying faces, high resolution, continous recording for long periods of time, audio capabilities)

He sent me this

""License plate camera
2CD4A25FWD-IZHS
Max 60fps

8 megapixel camera
2CD2385FWD-I
This max 20fps


NVR DS-9616NI-I8

We need to put Four 6 TB hard drive to have 10 days of continuous recording with eight cameras at max fps ""


What do you guys think of this vs the Lorex package? Also I remember him saying $5,200 I forgot to ask if that includes labor/installation

 

[bigredfish]

Ive seen and read good things about that 2CD4A25FWD-IZHS Darkfighter with the 32mm lens for LPR. I'm getting about 120' from a 60mm lens on my Dahua cameras I use for LPR so you should be able to see about 60-70' with that one.

Remember that with that LPR camera, all you're going to see is the car it wont be much use for anything else... especially at night