Your experience with NVR vs PC (Blue Iris, etc.) using Dahua cameras?

[Merlin93]

i7-6700 can be purchased for just over 400...an i7-7700 at about 500 or so....you are hitting those numbers with the processor and windows os alone..
heck, my hp elitedesk was 400 - i7-6700, ssd (256)...8gb memory...
there are NO support issues with the dell optiplex and elitedesks...I run 20 blue iris systems and support an additional 50 pc's that are made up of optiplex and elitedesk...never had a failure...ever...my only hardware failure was a lenovo home based laptop...my other lenovo laptop has been running 24/7 on a reception desk for camera viewing for at least 4 years now...non stop...

I admit that my Dell tech experience is more than a decade old at this point, so they may have improved on the binning of the parts that go into their lower end systems, so I will have to defer to your more up-to-date experience there.

As for the systems, I just did a search on ebay, and the cheapest i7-7700 system I could in a broad search under desktops and all-in-ones was $575 and I'd still have to add more for a boot disk. Of course, my timing may be bad and all the good deals may have been snapped up already. I know systems come and go... they may add new systems tomorrow that are better/cheaper. But just in case, I also did some searches specifically for elitedesk systems and since there were no i7-7700's, the cheapest i7-6700 (non-T) I found with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD was $756 (Elitedesk 800 G2.) Doing the same for Optiplex netted an OptiPlex 5050 w/i7-7700 8GB ram 256GB SSD @ $879.98.

The systems directly on the Dell site are more expensive... the cheapest pre-configured system with an i7-7700 CPU on the business site is $880. I found one on sale on the home site for $779. I tried to customize several of them to see if I could get the price down but none allowed changes, and I couldn't find a custom configurator... when did that go away? It used to be that you could dial in the specific system you wanted to custom order.

The system I picked out has a micro tower case I like, a quality MSI microATX MB, i7-7700, Kingston HyperX 8GB, Samsung 250GB M.2 SSD, and a Seasonic PSU, for just under $600. I could easily shave off another $100 or so if I wanted the lowest price on every option too. CPU and SSD were the two largest chunks. Though that would be an amazing plex system, and should run a dozen cameras easily once I throw a WD Purple HDD in there. Heck, throw a discrete video card in there and it would make a decent gaming rig.

In any case, while I'd love to find a $300-$400 PC that suits my needs, chances are I'm looking at at least $500 if I can stumble on a great online deal. But I can build the system I chose any time... and maybe get it cheaper if I stumble on some deals on the parts side.

That is, of course, assuming I end up going with a PC-based VMS system. I'm leaning that way, but still don't know that it really adds a ton of value over an NVR appliance which can be had for well under $300.

I appreciate your input... thanks!

 

[fenderman]

I admit that my Dell tech experience is more than a decade old at this point, so they may have improved on the binning of the parts that go into their lower end systems, so I will have to defer to your more up-to-date experience there.

As for the systems, I just did a search on ebay, and the cheapest i7-7700 system I could in a broad search under desktops and all-in-ones was $575 and I'd still have to add more for a boot disk. Of course, my timing may be bad and all the good deals may have been snapped up already. I know systems come and go... they may add new systems tomorrow that are better/cheaper. But just in case, I also did some searches specifically for elitedesk systems and since there were no i7-7700's, the cheapest i7-6700 (non-T) I found with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD was $756 (Elitedesk 800 G2.) Doing the same for Optiplex netted an OptiPlex 5050 w/i7-7700 8GB ram 256GB SSD @ $879.98.

The systems directly on the Dell site are more expensive... the cheapest pre-configured system with an i7-7700 CPU on the business site is $880. I found one on sale on the home site for $779. I tried to customize several of them to see if I could get the price down but none allowed changes, and I couldn't find a custom configurator... when did that go away? It used to be that you could dial in the specific system you wanted to custom order.

The system I picked out has a micro tower case I like, a quality MSI microATX MB, i7-7700, Kingston HyperX 8GB, Samsung 250GB M.2 SSD, and a Seasonic PSU, for just under $600. I could easily shave off another $100 or so if I wanted the lowest price on every option too. CPU and SSD were the two largest chunks. Though that would be an amazing plex system, and should run a dozen cameras easily once I throw a WD Purple HDD in there. Heck, throw a discrete video card in there and it would make a decent gaming rig.

In any case, while I'd love to find a $300-$400 PC that suits my needs, chances are I'm looking at at least $500 if I can stumble on a great online deal. But I can build the system I chose any time... and maybe get it cheaper if I stumble on some deals on the parts side.

That is, of course, assuming I end up going with a PC-based VMS system. I'm leaning that way, but still don't know that it really adds a ton of value over an NVR appliance which can be had for well under $300.

I appreciate your input... thanks!

You need to read the threads on getting a deal directly for Dell...
A VMS server should be dedicated to VMS...not Plex...you can easily run 8 1080p camera's on an i5 Skylake.. and you can't build that pc for 600 unless you intend to steal the OS.

 

[Merlin93]

You need to read the threads on getting a deal directly for Dell...
A VMS server should be dedicated to VMS...not Plex...you can easily run 8 1080p camera's on an i5 Skylake.. and you can't build that pc for 600 unless you intend to steal the OS.

Hmmm, threads on deals from Dell, eh? I'll need to look for those. As for Windows licenses, I still have a few unused licenses in my Microsoft BizSpark MSDN account so I'm not worried about that.

 

[Merlin93]

Oh and as for Plex, I don't need to run it on there. I just assumed there will likely be spare cycles on the box and if there are, that is one thing I could think of that would be a nice addition and compatible in purpose, so I can get it off my desktop. I have an old Mac mini HTPC box I was planning to throw it on until this investigation began.

 

[Merlin93]

The threads on the Dell deals appear to be related to the Dell Outlet coupons... the best deal currently available on either the small business or home sites is 10-12% off, which wouldn't really put much of a dent in any of the Kaby Lake systems I found. At least not to the extent of getting them into the low- or sub-$500 range.

 

[MacFun]

Hmmm, threads on deals from Dell, eh? I'll need to look for those. As for Windows licenses, I still have a few unused licenses in my Microsoft BizSpark MSDN account so I'm not worried about that.

What's the MS BizSpark MSDN? A developer program? Tell us more about that or PM.

THanks,

Robert

 

[Merlin93]

What's the MS BizSpark MSDN? A developer program? Tell us more about that or PM.

THanks,

Robert

Hehe, well that doesn't really have anything to do with IP cameras or PC buiding but I'm happy to explain...

MSDN refers to the Microsoft Developer Network (which is a service for Microsoft engineers and app developers and includes technical documentation and software downloads.) BizSpark is a program that Microsoft has for startups to help encourage them to use Microsoft products and develop apps for the Microsoft ecosystem. They also have an incubator/accelerator program tied to it for those who are looking for such assistance (or funding.)

Among other things, one of the perks of being a member of BizSpark is access to MSDN which includes Microsoft software and licenses for business use. BizSpark is a pretty cool program for startups, but it is a limited program (was 3 years when I signed up, but its 1 year now), so once you "graduate" you lose access to some features. They do let you keep software that doesn't require an active MSDN subscription though, plus you get discounts on MSDN subscriptions going forward.

Software you can access as part of MSDN includes retail versions of every MS OS going back to Windows 7, but you only get 5 licenses for each.

If you're a startup business owner, it's defintely worth applying. You have to meet certain qualifications and they limit how many startups they accept into the program each year, buit it's free and worth the effort.

 

[MacFun]

I do a lot of 4D development on the Mac and deploy on Mac or Windows... thanks for the detailed explanation, I might need to run a few more Windows machines soon via virtualization and licensing always seems to be an issue. So, once you have say 5 licenses of Win 7 does that license ever expire?

Thanks,

Robert

 

[Merlin93]

I do a lot of 4D development on the Mac and deploy on Mac or Windows... thanks for the detailed explanation, I might need to run a few more Windows machines soon via virtualization and licensing always seems to be an issue. So, once you have say 5 licenses of Win 7 does that license ever expire?

Thanks,

Robert

As far as I know they are perpetual licenses. According to the documentation, all licensed software (non-subscription based) that you used while part of the program remains available post-graduation. Notable exceptions include the Visual Studio stuff since that requires an active subscription.

 

[CaliGirl]

My experience with Blue Iris vs. a Dahua NVR is 1,000x better. I wasted hours and hours of my life on a Dahua 4K NVR that I wish I could gain back read my threads

 

[Merlin93]

My experience with Blue Iris vs. a Dahua NVR is 1,000x better. I wasted hours and hours of my life on a Dahua 4K NVR that I wish I could gain back read my threads

I read the first few pages of your hardware selection thread earlier, but it was like 20 pages long so I haven't finished it yet. I'll go back and catch up on it tonight to get the full blow-by-blow.

However, for the sake of this thread and those who may come here looking for info, if you'd care to summarize the key reasons you didn't like the NVR and decided to go with the PC VMS solution instead, that would be great!

I'm really looking for things people can or cannot do with one or the other and frustrations relating to operation of one that is made easier by the other.

Since it doesn't appear that Blue Iris supports Dahua IVS signalling (which is a bit of a shame since advanced IVS features add the extra cost borne by the higher end cameras), I'm also curious how the BI equivalent options compare to the Dahua in-camera IVS.

Oh, and btw... it looks like we may be bay area neighbors based on the info in your threads.

Thanks!

 

[Merlin93]

I just spent most of the night catching up on the threads @CaliGirl mentioned... wow there was a lot to go through! A couple hundred posts between the various threads. I learned some new stuff and managed to find answers to some of my open questions as part of my review of those threads, so I'm happy I took the time to do so.

While its clear she likes BI setup more than the NVR, I think there are extenuating circumstances for that. In my review, I made the following observations...

It seems like a good chunk of the early troubles were based on other people making conflicting (or bad) recommendations coupled with inexperience. Later, once the system was up and running the problems came down more to crashing apps and remote access issues rather than problems with the NVR itself. My guess is that many of the issues she encountered probably could have been solved (or avoided) if the camera system had been local rather than a remote deployment. I'm glad I won't have to contend with distance or weather issues based on seeing all that!

In any case, its more to consider. All-in-all the PC VMS soluion seems more flexible, particularly for larger systems, but the lack of IVS is a bit of a sticking point for me since it doesn't seem like the BI software analysis is as sophisticated or reliable as the features built into the cameras. Though I'm sure once I start tweaking things I can get either solution to work well enough for my purposes.

 

[fenderman]

In any case, its more to consider. All-in-all the PC VMS soluion seems more flexible, particularly for larger systems, but the lack of IVS is a bit of a sticking point for me since it doesn't seem like the BI software analysis is as sophisticated or reliable as the features built into the cameras. Though I'm sure once I start tweaking things I can get either solution to work well enough for my purposes.

Blue iris has zone crossing with multiple options making it far superior to ivs....it is not only more reliable but much more sophisticated. Not sure where you are getting that nonsense from...note, because blue iris has more options you actually need to learn what you are doing.
I suggest you get both and see for yourself...once you use almost ANY vms, you will want to toss your NVR into the garbage. If all you want to do is view your nvr hours after an event locally thats fine...but if you want excellent mobile access with great alerts and options then you will want BI.

 

[CaliGirl]

I can not agree more with fender man. And he really knows his stuff. There is absolutely nothing on the Dahua NVR that I am missing or can't do with BI.

IVS is not the end all be all. BI has features similar and with more flexibility and options.

If you don't want to loose IVS, you can still use it to fire off emails and photo attachments marking areas of interest to go back and look with BI. That is what I do as a second layer. I have the IVS in the Dahua cameras email attachments of activity. So in reality, I am getting the best of both worlds.

Dahua cameras purchased from China are very reasonable and you are hardly paying for the IVS feature if at all. I got my cameras far she

I couldn't even get the Dahua NVR to list cameras in the order that I wanted. There were so many bugs in the software and this is even working directly on the machine at the location. And don't even get me started on their remote iOS app.

I secretly want you to get a Dahua NVR, struggle with it, then come tell us had similar issues. Then it will conform that it wasn't just me just joking.

 

[Rand]

I am running Blue Iris, with 22 Dahua cameras. I am sure that for most of the members in this forum Blue Iris is working fine... but for me, it is really unstable.

It usually runs at 40% CPU, but then once in a while, it goes to 100% CPU, and stays there, unresponsive.

Live view on the web interface works fine, but randomly, it will start flashing a blackscreen showing an error on the top (I already did a clean Win 10 install, installed codecs, drivers as suggested in their site, etc, etc).

Again, I'm sure Blue Iris works fine for most of you, but for me.. it hasn't.

 

[fenderman]

I am running Blue Iris, with 22 Dahua cameras. I am sure that for most of the members in this forum Blue Iris is working fine... but for me, it is really unstable.

It usually runs at 40% CPU, but then once in a while, it goes to 100% CPU, and stays there, unresponsive.

Live view on the web interface works fine, but randomly, it will start flashing a blackscreen showing an error on the top (I already did a clean Win 10 install, installed codecs, drivers as suggested in their site, etc, etc).

Again, I'm sure Blue Iris works fine for most of you, but for me.. it hasn't.

instability is user error..or a hardware issue 100 percent. I have been running blue iris rock solid for many years at 20 locations......did you do a clean install using MS media creation tool? what hardware are you running? what else are you running on the system? What version of blue iris (exact version)..how long have you had this issue?
Keep in mind that users have issues with unstable NVR's - lots of them...

 

[CaliGirl]

So many variables. Has so much to do with how you optimize your system and BI software. 22 cameras is def quite a few more then my 8. How many mp for each cam?

I am running Blue Iris, with 22 Dahua cameras. I am sure that for most of the members in this forum Blue Iris is working fine... but for me, it is really unstable.

It usually runs at 40% CPU, but then once in a while, it goes to 100% CPU, and stays there, unresponsive.

Live view on the web interface works fine, but randomly, it will start flashing a blackscreen showing an error on the top (I already did a clean Win 10 install, installed codecs, drivers as suggested in their site, etc, etc).

Again, I'm sure Blue Iris works fine for most of you, but for me.. it hasn't.

 

[Rand]

.did you do a clean install using MS media creation tool? what hardware are you running? what else are you running on the system? What version of blue iris (exact version)..how long have you had this issue?

I have a Dell Optiplex with an i-7700, 16 GB RAM. Running Windows 10, and the latest version of Blue Iris. I did a clean install to get rid of Dell's bloatware, and get the right intel drivers. I've had this issue since day one, practically.

Keep in mind that users have issues with unstable NVR's - lots of them...

Yes, I'm sure. I've also read the threads on Dahua NVRs.. and they are also plagued with issues.

So many variables. Has so much to do with how you optimize your system and BI software. 22 cameras is def quite a few more then my 8. How many mp for each cam?

The cams are mostly 2MP, running at 10-15 fps. The system seems to work fine, and fairly low CPU (40-50%).. when it is working.. 99% of the time.. but once in a while, I connect, and I find it unresponsive.

I have to take a closer look (event viewer, etc), to see if there is any evident failure.

 

[CaliGirl]

If you want I can log into your machine with TeamViewer and you can watch and I can optimize your system for you. If you don't like the changes you can put them back easily. There is a good chance that would improve your experience.

 

[Merlin93]

Blue iris has zone crossing with multiple options making it far superior to ivs....it is not only more reliable but much more sophisticated. Not sure where you are getting that nonsense from...

Primarily from these forums, and some others that I view. I saw a few people state in the threads @CaliGirl started that the in-camera IVS is superior as it is less subject to false positives where even with tuning BI isn't quite as accurate. But opinions vary of course.

note, because blue iris has more options you actually need to learn what you are doing.

I've watched several videos on setting up and running BI, so I'm aware of the zone crossing option to emulates tripwires, and with motion regions and sizing motion targets. I'm also familiar with the Sighthound Video software which does all that plus object analysis and cloud-based facial detection (but its far more expensive and doesn't support Dahua out of the box.)

I suggest you get both and see for yourself...once you use almost ANY vms, you will want to toss your NVR into the garbage. If all you want to do is view your nvr hours after an event locally thats fine...but if you want excellent mobile access with great alerts and options then you will want BI.

I don't want to waste an extra $300 on an NVR that won't be useful if the software will do what I want... I'd rather spend some extra time doing research and then make a better informed decision and not have to worry about buyers remorse.