PoE Splitter/Adapter of choice to power IR illuminator?

105437

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400' is ABOVE the maximum specified length for an ethernet run. The ethernet packet protocols have critical timing specs based on worse case progation times over 100 meters (330 feet) at the speed of signals in a twisted pair (about 40-70% of light speed depending on the wire). running longer WILL create problems, and this is even before we get into PoE voltage drops. In addition to the absolute propagtion speed, cat6 wire has 4 pairs, and each pair has a different twist rate, this is to reduce signal crosstalk, but it means the signals skew farther with longer runs, which causes yet more problems since both 100baseT and gigE use all 4 pairs, 2 for Tx, and 2 for Rx.

re voltage drop, AWG 24 (common cat6 solid copper) has 0.0842 ohms per meter at 68F. round trip on that 400 foot (122 meter) run will be 244 * 0.0842 = 20 ohms. 12 watts at 48 volts is 0.25 amps, 0.25 amps * 20 ohms is a 5 volt drop, so you would only see 43 volts at the far end. resistance goes up when the wire is hot, around 0.4% per degree above 68F (the spec temp), so the voltage drop will increase, too.

you can partially get around the PoE wire length issues by using a PoE switch or inserter that has a 'boost' mode where it outputs a higher voltage, however this won't solve the ethernet timing issues.
Great info, I really appreciate your time putting this together!
 

Teken

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My Unifi PoE switch has ePoE and so do my Dahua 5231s.
I’m confused by this statement are you saying Ubiquiti offers ePOE on their switches?!?

If so can you provide a resource link to the same? The so called ePOE is a proprietary method used by some 2nd / 3rd tier hardware makers.

This should not be confused with POE af, POE+ at, POE++ bt. All of these POE standards conform to sustain 1GB speeds. ePOE does not and drops to a ridiculous speed of 10 / 100 depending upon maker.

The concept on paper appears to make sense. In reality, it’s marketed to the stupid and inept who have no common sense and no basic understanding of electricity and networking.
 

105437

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I’m confused by this statement are you saying Ubiquiti offers ePOE on their switches?!?

If so can you provide a resource link to the same? The so called ePOE is a proprietary method used by some 2nd / 3rd tier hardware makers.

This should not be confused with POE af, POE+ at, POE++ bt. All of these POE standards conform to sustain 1GB speeds. ePOE does not and drops to a ridiculous speed of 10 / 100 depending upon maker.

The concept on paper appears to make sense. In reality, it’s marketed to the stupid and inept who have no common sense and no basic understanding of electricity and networking.
You're right... I meant PoE+.
 

alekk

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This looks like "about" the best thread to ask this question as I too am trying to power an IP Camera (Hikvision 2735) and external device (microphone) from a single Ethernet run.

For testing purposes, I have the camera on a very short cable run to a PoE device - works fine. And the microphone is plugged into a wall transformer to provide power for it - again, works fine.

So this I put this splitter from Amazon (very similar to what @105437 bought) ... and I have a similar issue. The 12V powers the microphone just fine ... but the camera does not boot up - I can tell because the IR lights don't blink on when plugged in as they normally do. And yes, I did try testing without the microphone attached - camera still does not work.

I did notice that only pins 1236 are passed through on the splitter ... so could this be Mode A/B issue (?)
EDIT/ADD: The PoE switch is an SW502 that is 10/100 - NOT GigE ... so should NOT require all 4 pairs ...

Note that I did use my cable tester and confirmed that 1236 are all passed through correctly ... which I did for both of the splitters I got ... and both powered the microphone, but not the camera.

Any suggestions - thanks,
alek
P.S. @icpilot posted here and is using the exact same Anavision splitter I have ... and reports that "The Anvision splitter was purchased so I could add either a microphone or an illuminator, but not an additional camera. I have 3 of these installed and they have worked perfectly after several months of use. Tow of them are powering cameras and a microphone, one of them is powering camera plus an illuminator."
 
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Left Coast Geek

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...

So this I put this splitter from Amazon (very similar to what @105437 bought) ... and I have a similar issue. The 12V powers the microphone just fine ... but the camera does not boot up - I can tell because the IR lights don't blink on when plugged in as they normally do. And yes, I did try testing without the microphone attached - camera still does not work.

I did notice that only pins 1236 are passed through on the splitter ... so could this be Mode A/B issue (?)
...
are you trying to use this with gigE ? 2-pair (4-wire) is only good for 100baseT, gigE requires all 4 pairs, 8 wires...
 

Teken

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I’m going to say the problem lies with one of several possibilities. If the switch is truly AF compliant that splitter is blocking the handshake.

Hence no voltage / power up.

If that isn’t the root cause I would measure the voltage coming out of the splitter.

You’re either going to see nothing or voltage far below what the camera needs to operate.

That type of splitter is literally the cheapest you can buy and offers endless problems vs more expensive options for not a lot more as seen below. These span 5, 12 volt with different barrel - micro USB USB Type C plugs.

All them are certified 1G not cheap 10/100. They incorporate true status LED and basic surge protection, high current, hi-low voltage etc.

IMG_5950.jpg
 

alekk

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Thanks for the great info @Teken ... and assuming I want a 12V output, it looks like the model number is PS5712TG which is on Amazon.

BTW, if I zoom in on the ethernet cable, it's not clear if all 8 pins are wired (?)

But if you say these ROCK, that good enough for me and I can give it a shot.
 

alekk

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Yea, duly noted those don't look too weatherproof plus they are much bigger ... which is why I ordered the Anvision ones ... which appear to be a bit more weather resistant. I'm just puzzled why @icpilot posted here that he is using the exact same Anvision splitter and reports that "The Anvision splitter was purchased so I could add either a microphone or an illuminator, but not an additional camera. I have 3 of these installed and they have worked perfectly after several months of use. Tow of them are powering cameras and a microphone, one of them is powering camera plus an illuminator."

Can you confirm @Left Coast Geek if your splitter has all 8 pins wired ... or just 1236? If that later, that means Type A - right? So why the heck doesn't the Anvision work (I did test continuity for pins 1236) ... unless the internal electronics aren't up to snuff. Or maybe there is something different about Hikvision ... but this is a 2735 dome camera - not a PTZ with larger current draw.
 

Teken

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otoh, those are not weatherproof, so would need to be put in a weatherbox with compression glands around all wires that exit said weather box.
Correct and would like to add none of these POE Splitters are formally rated for outdoor use. Meaning they offer no specifications as to how they operate in extreme heat never mind damp locations.

These are active splitters and incorporate some electronics and passive components. I used them to help convert the bulk of my (IoT) devices to POE so everything was home run, properly surge protected, and powered by my UPS systems.

It helped remove lots of wall wart PSU’s!

I would suggest you test one unit to see how it performs before going all in. For those wanting to extend the service life of the unit just break it open and mount heat transfer tape to the camera JB enclosure so the entire box acts like a radiator.

If no enclosure is used and the unit will reside in the attic (don’t recommend this) insure it’s secured in free air to allow heat dissipation.

If the OP lives in any of hot zones like AZ, TX, NV, etc don’t expect a very long service life in the attic besides this being a fire code violation!
 

icpilot

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Yea, duly noted those don't look too weatherproof plus they are much bigger ... which is why I ordered the Anvision ones ... which appear to be a bit more weather resistant. I'm just puzzled why @icpilot posted here that he is using the exact same Anvision splitter and reports that "The Anvision splitter was purchased so I could add either a microphone or an illuminator, but not an additional camera. I have 3 of these installed and they have worked perfectly after several months of use. Tow of them are powering cameras and a microphone, one of them is powering camera plus an illuminator."

Can you confirm @Left Coast Geek if your splitter has all 8 pins wired ... or just 1236? If that later, that means Type A - right? So why the heck doesn't the Anvision work (I did test continuity for pins 1236) ... unless the internal electronics aren't up to snuff. Or maybe there is something different about Hikvision ... but this is a 2735 dome camera - not a PTZ with larger current draw.
I posted that because that's what I am doing. Using the Anvision splitter to power either microphones or small illuminators. Today I took one of them down to swap out the dome camera with a new Loryta PTZ, but if you like tomorrow I'll take a couple of photos and show how I have them hooked up. It's pretty straight forward.
 

alekk

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I posted that because that's what I am doing. Using the Anvision splitter to power either microphones or small illuminators. Today I took one of them down to swap out the dome camera with a new Loryta PTZ, but if you like tomorrow I'll take a couple of photos and show how I have them hooked up. It's pretty straight forward.
Yea, that would be awesome. I agree it seems pretty darn straightforward.

I.e. Just take the existing PoE cable from the powered injector/switch and plug it into the female end of the splitter. Then plug the camera into the male end ... and use the 12v pigtail to power the microphone. Heck, even if I don't plug the microphone in, the camera still does not power on. And I have tried a couple of different PoE injectors/switches - note that none of them are GigE.

Thanks @icpilot
 

icpilot

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Yea, that would be awesome. I agree it seems pretty darn straightforward.

I.e. Just take the existing PoE cable from the powered injector/switch and plug it into the female end of the splitter. Then plug the camera into the male end ... and use the 12v pigtail to power the microphone. Heck, even if I don't plug the microphone in, the camera still does not power on. And I have tried a couple of different PoE injectors/switches - note that none of them are GigE.

Thanks @icpilot
I know this is a silly question, but just to be sure ... are you using a splitter to split the power coming from the Anvision into two (2) connectors - one for the camera and one for the device (microphone or illuminator)?
 

icpilot

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To add to my last post. When you plug the POE cable into the Anvision, you have now created a separate data connector and power connector. The ethernet connection of the Anvision carries NO POWER. All the power is now carried in the power plug coming from the Anvision. And you have two (2) devices that need power - the camera and the microphone. Split the power from the Anvision so you can connect those two, and you should be good to go.

Do you know the power demand of your camera? My Hik's are all less than 10W. The microphone demand should be negligible. So long as your switch provides POE (802.3af), it should be delivering 15W, which is plenty.
 

icpilot

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icpilot

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Correct and would like to add none of these POE Splitters are formally rated for outdoor use. Meaning they offer no specifications as to how they operate in extreme heat never mind damp locations.

These are active splitters and incorporate some electronics and passive components. I used them to help convert the bulk of my (IoT) devices to POE so everything was home run, properly surge protected, and powered by my UPS systems.

It helped remove lots of wall wart PSU’s!

I would suggest you test one unit to see how it performs before going all in. For those wanting to extend the service life of the unit just break it open and mount heat transfer tape to the camera JB enclosure so the entire box acts like a radiator.

If no enclosure is used and the unit will reside in the attic (don’t recommend this) insure it’s secured in free air to allow heat dissipation.

If the OP lives in any of hot zones like AZ, TX, NV, etc don’t expect a very long service life in the attic besides this being a fire code violation!
Yep, I do live in AZ. Which is why I included the comment that I am unsure of the long-term reliability of any of the products. However, a couple of those Anvision products have been exposed to 2 Phoenix summers and this year was a pretty wet one during the monsoon season. Had no problem with any of them, as yet. FWIW.
 
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