Ukraine related: Was Ukraine Government Is Handing Out Guns To Citizens, What Happened to Gun Control?

mat200

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
13,649
Reaction score
22,738
Ukraine had their chance to sit down with Russia and negotiate months ago. They refused to, unless everything was on their terms. But why would Ukraine stop now? The world is handing to them on a silver platter, 100's of Billions of dollars in the past few months, along with free military equipment, parts, ammunition and now the fucker wants the latest and greatest, state of the art equipment. For him, he cant get enough. He wants more, and more, and more. Now he sends his wife out to do the bidding.....you know, tag team it so the can get billions more. Then, once this is all over, he is going to expect the US to built Ukraine back, or in reality, to upgrade them to state of the art. If you don't see something wrong with this picture, then maybe you chose the wrong career path. Maybe you should be in politics. To the rest of the world, the US is getting fucked up the ass, with no lube and not even a kiss. And Biden is helping them do it while sucking on an icecream cone. I have said before, this isn't our war, we shouldn't be paying for it and we definitely shouldn't send any of our Military in to get in the middle of it.
@Smilingreen What became the USA had a chance to sit down with King George and make peace after they sent the 1774 Petition to the King ..

"Ukraine had their chance to sit down with Russia and negotiate months ago. They refused to, unless everything was on their terms. But why would Ukraine stop now?"

Russia had the chance to not invade in 2022 ..

History has taught us that Russia will NOT stop unless forced .. Russia could have stopped in 2014 .. and yet Russia came back in 2022 to take all of Ukraine .. bottom line is that Russia must lose or else the cost to USA will be far greater once it becomes clear you can win with wars if you have nuclear weapons ..

Remember North Korea, China, Pakistan, Iran, have nuclear weapons and territorial interests to expansion .. just a question of time for others to play the "let's invade" game if Russia wins.

How much would that cost the US ???
 

Griswalduk

Known around here
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
1,088
Reaction score
2,043
Location
Uk
Ukraine had their chance to sit down with Russia and negotiate months ago. They refused to, unless everything was on their terms. But why would Ukraine stop now? The world is handing to them on a silver platter, 100's of Billions of dollars in the past few months, along with free military equipment, parts, ammunition and now the fucker wants the latest and greatest, state of the art equipment. For him, he cant get enough. He wants more, and more, and more. Now he sends his wife out to do the bidding.....you know, tag team it so the can get billions more. Then, once this is all over, he is going to expect the US to built Ukraine back, or in reality, to upgrade them to state of the art. If you don't see something wrong with this picture, then maybe you chose the wrong career path. Maybe you should be in politics. To the rest of the world, the US is getting fucked up the ass, with no lube and not even a kiss. And Biden is helping them do it while sucking on an icecream cone. I have said before, this isn't our war, we shouldn't be paying for it and we definitely shouldn't send any of our Military in to get in the middle of it.
I replied in some detail why investing in Ukraine is a sound financially decision that can produce a healthy return to offset the national debt or be spent on worthy causes. It is the responsibility of government to make sure this happens but as can be seen from the graph the debt ceiling has been growing nearly as long as Zelenskyy has been walking this planet. Republican and Democrat governments have had their chance to sit down but they have refused to so for decades. This is the real problem. The swamp needs drained.

If it's any consolation we have exactly the same problems here in the UK.


1674238824587.png

In my view America is a big business not a charity. The people as shareholders should expect that any money invested by the government will result in a profitable return. The extreme opposite of this outcome is obviously bankruptcy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the sums I've seen are $1.7 trillion overall with $45 billion off this ear marked for Ukraine. My thoughts rightly or wrongly If i was running a business "not charity" and providing goods ( not necessary military equipment ) to this value are.

Buying price + my costs + my profit = $45 billion selling price to customer. Rearranging this equation shows the cost to the tax payer is less than selling price but in this case there's more political mileage and publicity with the higher figure. My real cost guesstimate $35 billion.

The goods in question also need to be manufactured / assembled and the cost of such includes labour. Using the existing workforce or newly created employment my guesstimate of labour costs to take raw materials from the ground and make them into a big gun or a high tech missile is going to be $20 billion. i appreciate it could be higher or lower. Assuming this process happens in America and a tax rate of 20% the resultant is $4 billion in tax going back into the economy. There may be other deductions from this sum for example in the UK we pay national insurance at about 12% that flows back to the government funded public health service. The net income after these deductions is the employees take home pay for mortgages, car insurance, food and groceries, treats for the kids gifts for him and her. Again the ripple effect is the bulk of this $20 billion should stay in the USA economy.

This increase in manufacturing should also create employment in supporting areas and supply chains. For example the workers need fed, cars, vans, lorries roads need maintained, children need cared for while mum / dads at work. I'm sure there's maths to work all this out but I'm going to guess this generates another sizeable income. Guesstimate $5 billion which will be taxed and spent the same as above. With these deductions this very unscientific calculation has shown that $45 billion could really be $10 billion real world. Still a significant amount but less so.

Looking further ahead Ukraine will need rebuilt. With American being the largest contributor its returns should rightly be reflective of this . With preferential treatment there are many more billions to be made here in construction and the supply of materials, technology, labour and whatever else is needed to get the country going again. And don't forget that headline $45 billion still needs repaying.

Now we come to reparations for a needless war of genocide at the behest of a Nazi dictator. As well as footing the bill for the above rebuild, Russian should also be told you owe us $45 billion (and counting). Pay willingly and the sanctions can be eased gradually or refuse to pay and your oil and gas exports will be taxed.

In a nutshell if your running a powerful business like America the headline $45 billion investment can be flipped many many many times resulting in a huge return. It is infact a sound financial decision that could be used to ease the national debt or for the worthy causes mentioned. If your running a business and this doesn't happen the the problem is not with the customer its with the business itself. These business problems are likely already discussed at length in the separate thread below

 
Last edited:

mat200

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
13,649
Reaction score
22,738
100% spot on here:

Republican and Democrat governments have had their chance to sit down but they have refused to so for decades. This is the real problem. The swamp needs drained.
 

Griswalduk

Known around here
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
1,088
Reaction score
2,043
Location
Uk
On Putin's payroll

"Russian neo-Nazis Michakov and Petrovskiy cofounded Rusich and went on to commit horrendous war crimes in Donbas. On Sept. 5 2014, they ambushed, captured, and brutally tortured Ukrainian soldiers, and took photos posing over their disfigured corpses. "

"Milchakov directly confirmed, in a Skype interview for militants, that Rusich were paid by the Russian state and proudly admitted full responsibility for the atrocities."


1674414635202.png

 

mat200

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
13,649
Reaction score
22,738
How Politics Destroys Armies: Politics, Factionalism & Russia's war in Ukraine

 

Griswalduk

Known around here
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
1,088
Reaction score
2,043
Location
Uk
The lunatics are running the asylum.

"Someone should remind them that the Soviet Union were allies with Hitler until Hitler didn't want them anymore"



1674510187905.png

1674510330095.png

 

mat200

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
13,649
Reaction score
22,738
The lunatics are running the asylum.

"Someone should remind them that the Soviet Union were allies with Hitler until Hitler didn't want them anymore"



View attachment 151788

View attachment 151789

Around 3.9 million Ukrainians died during the Holodomor of 1932-33 (as established in a 2015 study by a team of demographers from the Ukrainian Institute of Demographic and Social Studies, and the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill).
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
4,832
Reaction score
20,368
Location
San Antonio, TX
Niksun, your propaganda game needs A LOT of work. First off, these are the Newest Leopard tanks...they don't blow their turret 50 to 100 feet in the air on the first or even second hit, like good old Russian tanks do.

Russian tanks are very similar to our WWII Sherman tanks. When hit, they go BOOM. We learned our lesson the hard way, apparently the Russian Defense Agency did not.
 
Top