Ukraine related: Was Ukraine Government Is Handing Out Guns To Citizens, What Happened to Gun Control?
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Smilingreen
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My opinion is: We need to quit giving this guy tens of billions of dollars. When we give it to him, he turns around and says: "It is not enough". That is a swift kick in the crotch to every single US Tax payer. Fuck him. We just went 1.7 trillion dollars more into debt last week, partly because of him.
What about the US border? Why can't we spend the US citizens money on the US border? Why can't we rebuild our crumbling infrastructure nationwide? Why can't we help the disabled and poor veterans and the poor people in our own back yard? No, we leave them hanging out in the cold to fend for themselves while we step over them on the sidewalk, while we are letting millions of illegal aliens cross unobstructed on our border, and then give them money, housing and healthcare. Then this clown from Ukraine comes begging to Biden for money for a war that never has concerned us nor is it currently concerning us and Biden Admin is giving this fucking clown 100's of billions of US Tax Payer dollars, drawing down all of our military surplus to dangerous low levels and handing it over to this fucking clown. He had a chance to meet with Putin and discuss this. The fucker turned the meeting down because he wanted everything on his own terms. The US is not the world's police. The US taxpayers are not Zelensky's personal bank account. When is this going to stop? Enough of the worldwide social programs for countries who hate the US. The US is bankrupt. We don't have any money. We are massively in debt. The fuckers in Washington don't give a fuck as long as they get their deals under the table and keep sinking us trillions more in debt every year. I am going to say it again. Zelensky: Quit looking the gift horse in the fucking mouth, ya cunt.
mat200
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My opinion is: We need to quit giving this guy tens of billions of dollars. When we give it to him, he turns around and says: "It is not enough". That is a swift kick in the crotch to every single US Tax payer. Fuck him. We just went 1.7 trillion dollars more into debt last week, partly because of him.
No, the US tax payer got a swift kick in the crotch because of those in power of the US congress and Whitehouse .. Had they done their jobs, they could have prevented the Russo Ukraine war .. and saved the tax payer a lot of money.
Zelensky is just a pawn on this 1.7 Trillion dollar game .. he is forced to show up for money .. you know Pelosi told him under no uncertain terms that she and those controlling Biden now own Zelensky.
Zelensky and Ukrainians do not give a care about USA Southern Border .. that is a different game .. so you really should not be putting that on him.
If you want to be angry, be angry at Biden, Pelosi, and the rest of the corrupt bunch in the Congress and Senate .. along with Putin who started this War and Xi who green lighted this invasion ..
Smilingreen
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Oh, I am angry. I am angry at the beggar and angry at the stooges in DC that keep laying on the floor and be a doormat to this stooge. But, we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and yours, @mat200.
CCTVCam
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Give him adequate resources and he wouldn't have to ask for more.
You say give him nothing, but do you think WW 3 would be cheaper? Putin has already expressed desires to invade Poland and Romania, Nato Countries along with the Baltic States and recently even Germany:
Putin listed five EU countries he could invade
VLADIMIR PUTIN once listed countries he could invade, including five EU countries
www.express.co.uk
It's well believed that his aim is to restore the old Soviet Union and to do that he needs to retake all old ex-soviet nations and East Germany.
The UK UK Chief of Defence Staff, Admiral Sir Tony Radakin is reported as having said Putin could have intentions to invade Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Malta, and Sweden:
The 6 EU countries at risk from Russian invasion as Putin takes aim
RUSSIAN troops amassing on the border with Ukraine have sparked international concern. But is Vladimir Putin setting his sights further West?
www.express.co.uk
Do you really think the USA could keep out of such a war, even putting it's NATO obligations aside.
Simple fact: If Putin invades any or all of those countries then the USA is in a full blown war in Europe and even if conventional, will have to deploy it's entire military forces into Europe to stop the Soviet Union. The daily cost of that, and the daily cost of all the ammunition fired will pale into insignificance with what's being spent now. The War in Afganistan cost the USA $300 Million per day for 20 years. That's 109.5 Trillion Dollars.
You can. It's your Politicians who are failing to fund it. As said above, there'd be far less money to do it, if the USA gets drawn into WWW3 in Europe.
The USA could stop the war tomorrow by actually joining it and wiping out Russian forces in Ukraine. Cost over. The risk and fear is of a uclear response from Putin. The USA retaking Ukraine would be a quick and relatively cheap option. In the absence of that, ou're only choice to stop being drawn into a prolonged and more expensive Europe wide war is to fund Ukraine to win. The problem here is you're supplying limited weapons to agin avoid getting drawn in. If you only give a man 1/2 the tools, he can only do 1/2 the job, so expect a long drawn out and costly supply war. However the alternaive of doing nothing is far more expensive in the longr run when Putin invades other European ciountries.
As for US debt, the US can never pay it.
There are only 2 ways out I'm aware of:
1.The Great Reset where the country goes bankrupt (along with the rest of the world and all people) and a new currency is formed, porbably digital controlled by the central banks and maybe based on the gold standard wiping out all debt in the process
2. A revaluation of gold by a factor of 10 thus increasing the US's gold reserve value and thereby reducing the amount of deficit by a factor of 10 and buying decades of breathing space after which one of the two proces could be followed again
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Griswalduk
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Allegedly maybe more scenes from the Slovakian parliament 
Griswalduk
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I see there is some debate on the rights or wrongs of funding wars. I think this YouTube video is of relevance as it highlights winners and losers both militarily and financial during and post WW2.
My reading of this debate and outlook is that the US has done remarkably well compared to the other stakeholders and presently if America and its people wish to remain and be admired as the world's superpower and leader / defenders of institutions and rights it means investing and getting returns just as it did in WW2.
Russia like Hitler will have to pay reparations rebuilding Ukraine and repaying the world for its needless aggression. The American people as the largest contributors can / should expect the largest returns and hold government to account accordingly.
As an example if we take the UK who historically was once in a position similar to America It's likely missing this opportunity will begin to lead to a seat beside them in the world pecking order, with a public wondering where it's all went wrong and a President chanting MAGA.
Remember America already is great.
It has an opportunity to set itself up for another hundred years.
My reading of this debate and outlook is that the US has done remarkably well compared to the other stakeholders and presently if America and its people wish to remain and be admired as the world's superpower and leader / defenders of institutions and rights it means investing and getting returns just as it did in WW2.
Russia like Hitler will have to pay reparations rebuilding Ukraine and repaying the world for its needless aggression. The American people as the largest contributors can / should expect the largest returns and hold government to account accordingly.
As an example if we take the UK who historically was once in a position similar to America It's likely missing this opportunity will begin to lead to a seat beside them in the world pecking order, with a public wondering where it's all went wrong and a President chanting MAGA.
Remember America already is great.
It has an opportunity to set itself up for another hundred years.
Griswalduk
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Found this on Twitter so make of it what you will.
It's Christmas time in the fatherland.....There's no need to worry.... The Furher is fine
It's Christmas time in the fatherland.....There's no need to worry.... The Furher is fine
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Griswalduk
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Meanwhile some happy times even under the worst of circumstances 
sebastiantombs
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So, to summarize what Griswalduk said, as usual the US can maintain its' "status" as a/the Leader of the Free World as long as we keep paying for it. In the mean time, Germany in particular, but other NATO members are guilty of this as well, continue to underfund their own Defense as well as NATO. Here come the Yanks, waving sacks of hard cash to spread around, who knows where, while people die needlessly.
CCTVCam
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The UK has been one of the biggest contributors to Ukraine. It would be nice if Biden could see past his Irish position and actually treat the UK as a special friend. It seems under Biden the UK is the US's special friend but when it comes to trade etc, is dirt. Not a good realtionship and one I've pointed out many a time that has an easy answer to it, for the the UK to declare the spcial relationship is over, and no longer support or take part in the US's military world policing operations. This isn't agripe between the British people and the US people, this is purely a political gripe amongst countries and Biden specifically who in particular wants a special friends but one he treats badly.
The Northern Ireland problem is a British problem just as the Mexican Border problem is a USA problem. Politicians shouldn't be telling other countries how to solve internal problems total human rights abuses aside. Biden is llowing 1 gripe he shopuldn't even be sticking his nose in to sour a century old political relationship with the US's best friend.
Griswalduk
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In my view America is a big business not a charity. The people as shareholders should expect that any money invested by the government will result in a profitable return. The extreme opposite of this outcome is obviously bankruptcy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the sums I've seen are $1.7 trillion overall with $45 billion off this ear marked for Ukraine. My thoughts rightly or wrongly If i was running a business "not charity" and providing goods ( not necessary military equipment ) to this value are.
Buying price + my costs + my profit = $45 billion selling price to customer. Rearranging this equation shows the cost to the tax payer is less than selling price but in this case there's more political mileage and publicity with the higher figure. My real cost guesstimate $35 billion.
The goods in question also need to be manufactured / assembled and the cost of such includes labour. Using the existing workforce or newly created employment my guesstimate of labour costs to take raw materials from the ground and make them into a big gun or a high tech missile is going to be $20 billion. i appreciate it could be higher or lower. Assuming this process happens in America and a tax rate of 20% the resultant is $4 billion in tax going back into the economy. There may be other deductions from this sum for example in the UK we pay national insurance at about 12% that flows back to the government funded public health service. The net income after these deductions is the employees take home pay for mortgages, car insurance, food and groceries, treats for the kids gifts for him and her. Again the ripple effect is the bulk of this $20 billion should stay in the USA economy.
This increase in manufacturing should also create employment in supporting areas and supply chains. For example the workers need fed, cars, vans, lorries roads need maintained, children need cared for while mum / dads at work. I'm sure there's maths to work all this out but I'm going to guess this generates another sizeable income. Guesstimate $5 billion which will be taxed and spent the same as above. With these deductions this very unscientific calculation has shown that $45 billion could really be $10 billion real world. Still a significant amount but less so.
Looking further ahead Ukraine will need rebuilt. With American being the largest contributor its returns should rightly be reflective of this . With preferential treatment there are many more billions to be made here in construction and the supply of materials, technology, labour and whatever else is needed to get the country going again. And don't forget that headline $45 billion still needs repaying.
Now we come to reparations for a needless war of genocide at the behest of a Nazi dictator. As well as footing the bill for the above rebuild, Russian should also be told you owe us $45 billion (and counting). Pay willingly and the sanctions can be eased gradually or refuse to pay and your oil and gas exports will be taxed.
In a nutshell if your running a powerful business like America the headline $45 billion investment can be flipped many many many times resulting in a huge return. It is infact a sound financial decision that could be used to ease the national debt or for the worthy causes mentioned. If your running a business and this doesn't happen the the problem is not with the customer its with the business itself. These business problems are likely already discussed at length in the separate thread below
ipcamtalk.com
Correct me if I'm wrong but the sums I've seen are $1.7 trillion overall with $45 billion off this ear marked for Ukraine. My thoughts rightly or wrongly If i was running a business "not charity" and providing goods ( not necessary military equipment ) to this value are.
Buying price + my costs + my profit = $45 billion selling price to customer. Rearranging this equation shows the cost to the tax payer is less than selling price but in this case there's more political mileage and publicity with the higher figure. My real cost guesstimate $35 billion.
The goods in question also need to be manufactured / assembled and the cost of such includes labour. Using the existing workforce or newly created employment my guesstimate of labour costs to take raw materials from the ground and make them into a big gun or a high tech missile is going to be $20 billion. i appreciate it could be higher or lower. Assuming this process happens in America and a tax rate of 20% the resultant is $4 billion in tax going back into the economy. There may be other deductions from this sum for example in the UK we pay national insurance at about 12% that flows back to the government funded public health service. The net income after these deductions is the employees take home pay for mortgages, car insurance, food and groceries, treats for the kids gifts for him and her. Again the ripple effect is the bulk of this $20 billion should stay in the USA economy.
This increase in manufacturing should also create employment in supporting areas and supply chains. For example the workers need fed, cars, vans, lorries roads need maintained, children need cared for while mum / dads at work. I'm sure there's maths to work all this out but I'm going to guess this generates another sizeable income. Guesstimate $5 billion which will be taxed and spent the same as above. With these deductions this very unscientific calculation has shown that $45 billion could really be $10 billion real world. Still a significant amount but less so.
Looking further ahead Ukraine will need rebuilt. With American being the largest contributor its returns should rightly be reflective of this . With preferential treatment there are many more billions to be made here in construction and the supply of materials, technology, labour and whatever else is needed to get the country going again. And don't forget that headline $45 billion still needs repaying.
Now we come to reparations for a needless war of genocide at the behest of a Nazi dictator. As well as footing the bill for the above rebuild, Russian should also be told you owe us $45 billion (and counting). Pay willingly and the sanctions can be eased gradually or refuse to pay and your oil and gas exports will be taxed.
In a nutshell if your running a powerful business like America the headline $45 billion investment can be flipped many many many times resulting in a huge return. It is infact a sound financial decision that could be used to ease the national debt or for the worthy causes mentioned. If your running a business and this doesn't happen the the problem is not with the customer its with the business itself. These business problems are likely already discussed at length in the separate thread below
US Elections (& Politics) :)
LOTS of posts all over the map regarding politics have taken over the COVID thread. Pretty much derailed that thread as a COVID-only discussion. I understand the political nature of various COVID response strategies in various states, and that off-shoot of the pandemic discussion resulted in...
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CCTVCam
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Also, lets not forget, when it comes to rebuilding Ukraine, there are hundreds of billions of Russian Assets currently seized around the world. Sequastrate those, and give the money to Ukraine. Rebuilding sorted and Russia pays.
mat200
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Well .. actually it depends on the nuance .. if the USA structures it correctly, the USA can get good benefits / ROI ..
The Marshall Plan from WWII allowed the USA to get enormous benefits .. as did the funding of allies in WWII
USA flipped Japan and Germany ( West ) into allies .. big gains from that.
The USA funding the UK and Soviet Union vs Germany helped bring the USA economy up .. provided a great benefit to Americans with jobs ..
This year, Germany has finally stepped up their military funding .. while the German Economy by all measures is in a recession .. and many NATO states which know Russia well, they have been spending a large % of their GDP for defense.
( example Estonia's current defense budget totals 2.35 percent of GDP. The Ministry of Defense supports raising it to 3 percent. .. the NATO recommendation is "2% of GDP defence investment guideline" )
A LOT of that increased defensive spending by NATO countries is going to US companies .. Lockheed Martin will be selling F-35s like hot cakes it seems ..
USA should also benefit selling Oil / Natural Gas to Europe also, now that Russia is no longer considered a trusted supplier.
Once Ukraine starts to rebuild you can expect numerous opportunities in Ukraine .. as well as within the Ukrainian Energy Sector .. ( we all are to aware of the Biden corruption issues .. )
If played right, the EU membership opportunity to Ukraine may even help REDUCE some corruption .. we'll see ..
.. and .. yet .. THIS DID NOT NEED TO HAPPEN .. and imho the USA and others should have done more to stop it.
Griswalduk
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Ukraine war: Drone attack on Russian bomber base leaves three dead
The airbase, used by Russian planes targeting Ukraine, is hit for the second time this month.
www.bbc.co.uk
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CCTVCam
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Putin 'is being kept alive on Western cancer drugs'
The medics have used the latest Western treatments to target Putin's cancer, and stop its spread but he is likely now in his last year in power, a Russian expert told the Ukrainian media.
Bad news as well is the people he's picking to replace him are equally if not more extreme Western Haters than he is.
Griswalduk
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Interesting read on Twitter
Griswalduk
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Amixture of clips for today.
Keeping an eye out
And sadly another Putin pantomime from the Adolf youth battalion
Picture from thread for comparison
And a final clip of Prigozhin talking about handlers and delicious sausage. Reminiscing about times in his cell perhaps
Keeping an eye out
And sadly another Putin pantomime from the Adolf youth battalion
Picture from thread for comparison
And a final clip of Prigozhin talking about handlers and delicious sausage. Reminiscing about times in his cell perhaps
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N-i-k-s-o-n
Pulling my weight
Dmitry Medvedev's predictions are at least interesting and varied. The predictions of Ukraine and the West are monotonous and boring:Interesting read on Twitter
