Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?
- Thread starter erkme73
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^^ A couple of thoughts. Since he got the first dose isn't it possible that he'd test positive, somewhere along the line, simply because the vaccine is a modified version of the CCP Virus? If he does actually have the CCP Virus I think he may have minor symptoms rather than a full blown, on a ventilator, infection since his immune system should already be fairly well ramped up.
Frankenscript
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The vaccine isn't a modified version of the virus in this case. It's a tiny bit of mRNA coding for the spike protein.
The response of the body to the vaccine does generate Covid protein in the body and test looking for this specific protein would give false positives, but the PCR tests in common use would not generate false positives based on the vaccination.
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Frankenscript
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(source: XKCD)
bigredfish
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I was under the impression this new vaccine method wasn’t dead virus like previous vaccines?
This part I think is the bigger issue:
The news comes as the CEO Moderna, the maker of one of one of the mRNA COVID vaccines, warned Wednesday that the coronavirus will be around "forever" - despite all that talk about the vaccine bringing back a sense of normalcy to the world.
And Moderna CEO Stephane Bancel isn't the only official and infectious disease expert to have discussed the high likelihood that COVID-19 will become an endemic disease, meaning it will become present in communities at all times, though likely at much lower levels than it is now.
"We are going to live with this virus, we think, forever,” he said during a panel discussion at the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference.
This part I think is the bigger issue:
The news comes as the CEO Moderna, the maker of one of one of the mRNA COVID vaccines, warned Wednesday that the coronavirus will be around "forever" - despite all that talk about the vaccine bringing back a sense of normalcy to the world.
And Moderna CEO Stephane Bancel isn't the only official and infectious disease expert to have discussed the high likelihood that COVID-19 will become an endemic disease, meaning it will become present in communities at all times, though likely at much lower levels than it is now.
"We are going to live with this virus, we think, forever,” he said during a panel discussion at the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference.
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I enjoy reading you guy's post, sure makes me know I know nothing 
I did catch a guy on Oz that said this new vaccine is different than previous vaccines where they will be able to easily modify the vaccine for new viruses, something to do with changing the code of the vaccine with the DNA code of the new virus. He lost me but I get the just of it. I assume introducing the DNA signature of a virus to our body would still build our immune system against it instead of actually introducing a small amount of the virus itself. He said it was Revolutionary
I did catch a guy on Oz that said this new vaccine is different than previous vaccines where they will be able to easily modify the vaccine for new viruses, something to do with changing the code of the vaccine with the DNA code of the new virus. He lost me but I get the just of it. I assume introducing the DNA signature of a virus to our body would still build our immune system against it instead of actually introducing a small amount of the virus itself. He said it was Revolutionary 
Ssayer
BIT Beta Team
Not only revolutionary, but also the effects 2 years from now... heck, even 6 months down the road, are a big unknown...
bigredfish
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Which is why a large percentage of medical personnel are apparently refusing it in various places..
I dont know what affects it may or may not have, but more importantly neither do the drug companies who made it.
I dont know what affects it may or may not have, but more importantly neither do the drug companies who made it.
Frankenscript
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For those further interested in the tech behind these new mRNA vaccines, here's a fairly technical article from before the pandemic era that gets into it:
www.nature.com
While the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are the first of their kind, and are new, they've been in trials since early 2020, so there is an ever-expanding set of data on their safety. No major concerns have arisen from the Phase II trials for Moderna or Pfizer, and those data sets go back a ways; the much larger phase 3 trials are also continuing to collect safety data that hopefully will give people confidence in their safety. There have also been trials, both human and animal, of other mRNA vaccines that were never deployed. So, there's actually a fair amount of data to look at, growing daily.
A good way to think about it is like this:
If you are diagnosed with COVID-19, there is something like a 1.5% chance you will die, based on current rates (not full historical, which was much higher). Obviously if you are old, fat, or immunocompromised, there's a much higher risk, and if you are young and healthy, a much lower risk. It's not just death to consider... severe cases become common once you hit your 40s and even if you don't die, you might become seriously ill for weeks or longer.
Serious side effects from vaccines are generally measured in an event or two per 100,000 or per million. As an example, the long term serious side effect people often hear about from flu vaccines is Guillian-Barre syndrome, which effects 1-2 people per million flu shot recipients. GBS is an autoimmune neurological disorder that most people recover from but can have permanent effects. So far there's no evidences that the mRNA vaccines cause GBS at all, and there's enough data so far to suggest it's not a major threat (more frequent than for flu) even if it happens at all.
My point is that there's a good chance I'll be infected with COVID sooner or later, and if I do, there's a solid chance I'll get a bad case (I'm 53) and a non-trivial chance it will kill me.
Since the vaccines seems to be 90-95 effective at preventing serious COVID cases and deaths, for me that outweighs any extraneous low probability risks that the vaccine may have. With the data we already have, it's definitely less risky than getting COVID, no matter how young and healthy you are.
I will get it as soon as I can. My wife, who is a health care provider, apparently is now eligible to get it and she is going through the signup process.
They say doctors make the worst patients. Maybe that explains the reluctance by a significant percentage of providers. The providers I know (friends and my own doctors) are all very pro-vaccination and are trying to set an example. Time will tell if the big picture changes or not.
mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology
mRNA vaccines represent a promising alternative to conventional vaccine approaches, but their application has been hampered by instability and delivery issues. Here, Pardi and colleagues discuss recent advances in mRNA vaccine technology, assess mRNA vaccines currently in development for cancer...
www.nature.com
While the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are the first of their kind, and are new, they've been in trials since early 2020, so there is an ever-expanding set of data on their safety. No major concerns have arisen from the Phase II trials for Moderna or Pfizer, and those data sets go back a ways; the much larger phase 3 trials are also continuing to collect safety data that hopefully will give people confidence in their safety. There have also been trials, both human and animal, of other mRNA vaccines that were never deployed. So, there's actually a fair amount of data to look at, growing daily.
A good way to think about it is like this:
If you are diagnosed with COVID-19, there is something like a 1.5% chance you will die, based on current rates (not full historical, which was much higher). Obviously if you are old, fat, or immunocompromised, there's a much higher risk, and if you are young and healthy, a much lower risk. It's not just death to consider... severe cases become common once you hit your 40s and even if you don't die, you might become seriously ill for weeks or longer.
Serious side effects from vaccines are generally measured in an event or two per 100,000 or per million. As an example, the long term serious side effect people often hear about from flu vaccines is Guillian-Barre syndrome, which effects 1-2 people per million flu shot recipients. GBS is an autoimmune neurological disorder that most people recover from but can have permanent effects. So far there's no evidences that the mRNA vaccines cause GBS at all, and there's enough data so far to suggest it's not a major threat (more frequent than for flu) even if it happens at all.
My point is that there's a good chance I'll be infected with COVID sooner or later, and if I do, there's a solid chance I'll get a bad case (I'm 53) and a non-trivial chance it will kill me.
Since the vaccines seems to be 90-95 effective at preventing serious COVID cases and deaths, for me that outweighs any extraneous low probability risks that the vaccine may have. With the data we already have, it's definitely less risky than getting COVID, no matter how young and healthy you are.
I will get it as soon as I can. My wife, who is a health care provider, apparently is now eligible to get it and she is going through the signup process.
They say doctors make the worst patients. Maybe that explains the reluctance by a significant percentage of providers. The providers I know (friends and my own doctors) are all very pro-vaccination and are trying to set an example. Time will tell if the big picture changes or not.
Frankenscript
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One more post then I'm back to work for several hours:
We talked last week about the death toll in the US and how we need to wait for the 2020 data to be finalized to really comment. Here's a multi-country analysis that is an interesting read:
www.wsj.com
We talked last week about the death toll in the US and how we need to wait for the 2020 data to be finalized to really comment. Here's a multi-country analysis that is an interesting read:
The Covid-19 Death Toll Is Even Worse Than It Looks
World-wide deaths are running far beyond what would have been expected without the pandemic, a Wall Street Journal analysis shows—and many of those excess deaths aren’t accounted for in official Covid records.
www.wsj.com
tigerwillow1
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1 year anniversary of WHO saying no human-to-human transmission:
"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China: (Jan 14, 2020)
But it's all Trump's fault. Trump started travel bans 2 weeks later and got slammed by the left for overreaction. Then he got slammed by the left for not doing enough. Damned if you follow the "science", damned if you don't.
"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China: (Jan 14, 2020)
But it's all Trump's fault. Trump started travel bans 2 weeks later and got slammed by the left for overreaction. Then he got slammed by the left for not doing enough. Damned if you follow the "science", damned if you don't.
Oceanslider
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Better Never Than Late...
WHO scientists arrive in Wuhan to investigate coronavirus pandemic origins | Fox News
And at the end of the above video, in Australia, they are putting pigeon Joe down.
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Thank you for this, it helps me understand more, I have tried to live life by odds too with a little wisdom thrown in. The reasoning for me not rushing out there to get the vaccine is we are still in lockdown. During this Pandemic, we order most everything online, the wife has been working at home, I am Semi-Retired only working on weekends, every other or sometimes every third weekend and only for a few hours (Dealership Inventories), if we do venture out it is with mask and we stay away from people. Or odds are pretty low. Now if the wife returns to Brink/Mortar then yes we will make sure we vaccinate, I am pretty sure she will be forced to and of course I also will vaccinate to protect myself. So we are giving up our place in line to others who are more at risk until something changes in our way of living, btw this is really not living it is only just existing.For those further interested in the tech behind these new mRNA vaccines, here's a fairly technical article from before the pandemic era that gets into it:
mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology
mRNA vaccines represent a promising alternative to conventional vaccine approaches, but their application has been hampered by instability and delivery issues. Here, Pardi and colleagues discuss recent advances in mRNA vaccine technology, assess mRNA vaccines currently in development for cancer...
While the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are the first of their kind, and are new, they've been in trials since early 2020, so there is an ever-expanding set of data on their safety. No major concerns have arisen from the Phase II trials for Moderna or Pfizer, and those data sets go back a ways; the much larger phase 3 trials are also continuing to collect safety data that hopefully will give people confidence in their safety. There have also been trials, both human and animal, of other mRNA vaccines that were never deployed. So, there's actually a fair amount of data to look at, growing daily.
A good way to think about it is like this:
If you are diagnosed with COVID-19, there is something like a 1.5% chance you will die, based on current rates (not full historical, which was much higher). Obviously if you are old, fat, or immunocompromised, there's a much higher risk, and if you are young and healthy, a much lower risk. It's not just death to consider... severe cases become common once you hit your 40s and even if you don't die, you might become seriously ill for weeks or longer.
Serious side effects from vaccines are generally measured in an event or two per 100,000 or per million. As an example, the long term serious side effect people often hear about from flu vaccines is Guillian-Barre syndrome, which effects 1-2 people per million flu shot recipients. GBS is an autoimmune neurological disorder that most people recover from but can have permanent effects. So far there's no evidences that the mRNA vaccines cause GBS at all, and there's enough data so far to suggest it's not a major threat (more frequent than for flu) even if it happens at all.
My point is that there's a good chance I'll be infected with COVID sooner or later, and if I do, there's a solid chance I'll get a bad case (I'm 53) and a non-trivial chance it will kill me.
Since the vaccines seems to be 90-95 effective at preventing serious COVID cases and deaths, for me that outweighs any extraneous low probability risks that the vaccine may have. With the data we already have, it's definitely less risky than getting COVID, no matter how young and healthy you are.
I will get it as soon as I can. My wife, who is a health care provider, apparently is now eligible to get it and she is going through the signup process.
They say doctors make the worst patients. Maybe that explains the reluctance by a significant percentage of providers. The providers I know (friends and my own doctors) are all very pro-vaccination and are trying to set an example. Time will tell if the big picture changes or not.
Humans need interaction/affection/touch/love, not just online or phone communication or in my father's case waving from outside his window of an Assisted Living facility. I have already shared my Dad's passing last August due to Covid. No he did not get Covid, he passed away from Loneliness/Neglect, earlier last year we got a call from the police that Dad got himself lost driving and by protocol they called APS, this started a chain of events. Dad was Very Independent, he lived alone in a retirement community, had many friends, even did his own taxes (hand written) no tax program like we all do, he became an investor while retired so it was not simple taxes. Anyway, we are not sure what happened but we suspect a minor stroke, he was very confused when my brother and I drove down to see him. The county's rules where mask and gloves and only two in any car at a time, we had to get a letter from his doctor so we could take care of his affairs while we planned to move him up closer to us, he lived 7 hours away from us. After staying with us for almost two months (we were all exhausted with no sleep, he was a Sundowner) we found him an Assisted Living place, it was very hard to do since no one was excepting new residents. While there for about 2 months he quickly declined, not being able to see him, hug him, confront him we believe contributed to the quick decline. Our Mother was with us for 3 years in her facility. Anyway, we are not totally blaming Covid but we have heard this same type of story from many people we know with their parents/loved ones. Plus I found out while staying in touch with the Directors from both places that my parents were in there was an increase in deaths but not due to Covid infections.
Sorry for the long story/post, guess it still helps me to share. My point is you don't have to get Covid for death to occur, the lockdowns also contribute to those deaths, suicided, drug use, loneliness/isolation, etc. and these are not included with the Covid numbers. So maybe the Covid numbers are closer than we think, I know I questioned them also with their list including hospice too.
bigredfish
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I’m Sorry for your loss.
Ssayer
BIT Beta Team
Norway Warns of Vaccination Risks for Sick Patients Over 80
Norway said Covid-19 vaccines may be too risky for the very old and terminally ill, the most cautious statement yet from a European health authority as countries assess the real-world side effects of the first shots to gain approval.
www.bloomberg.com
Frankenscript
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bigredfish
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What could go wrong ...
www.zerohedge.com
A coalition of big tech companies, including Microsoft is developing a COVID passport, with the expectation that a digital document linked to vaccination status will be required to travel and get access to basic services.
Zerohedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
A coalition of big tech companies, including Microsoft is developing a COVID passport, with the expectation that a digital document linked to vaccination status will be required to travel and get access to basic services.
bigredfish
Known around here
great...
www.zerohedge.com
In what can only be described as a somewhat concerning turn of events, health experts from Wuhan, China, called on Norway and other countries to suspend the use of mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines produced by companies such as Pfizer, especially among elderly people (following the surge in deaths in Norway described below)
404 | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
In what can only be described as a somewhat concerning turn of events, health experts from Wuhan, China, called on Norway and other countries to suspend the use of mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines produced by companies such as Pfizer, especially among elderly people (following the surge in deaths in Norway described below)
EMPIRETECANDY
IPCT Vendor
The norway cases i don't know about it well. For the Chinese vaccine i have some friends already accpeted at Nov, looks like all good for them. Why they say Pfizer is not good? They just try to make people here trust the chinese made vaccine and China is the best. I think this will scare normal people to accept the vaccines, people are afraid about PERFECT.
A chinese company import 0.1 billon Pfizer vaccines, if i have the chance i will accpet the pfizer one.
In China, we call expert as Brick Brain, lol. The Chinese media is having fake news everyday too, when you open the newspaer, the only accurate thing is the date print on the newspper.
By the way, where is @Arjun, he was very active here
A chinese company import 0.1 billon Pfizer vaccines, if i have the chance i will accpet the pfizer one.
In China, we call expert as Brick Brain, lol. The Chinese media is having fake news everyday too, when you open the newspaer, the only accurate thing is the date print on the newspper.
By the way, where is @Arjun, he was very active here
Oceanslider
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It is sad, more common all over these days. People are more aware hopefully.SNIP
In China, we call expert as Brick Brain, lol. The Chinese media is having fake news everyday too, when you open the newspaer, the only accurate thing is the date print on the newspper.
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