DH-IPC-HDW4431EMP-AS 3.6mm vs DH-IPC-HDW4233C-A 3.6 mm

[Bryan]

Bought 2 cameras to test out, one 4MP 4431 and a 2MP 4233. Have a large yard and trying to eventually cover the perimeter. Haven't got my NVR yet so I set them on an inside window and hooked them one at a time directly to my router. Used default settings. 2 MP was better at night, but closeup was too bright. Probably have to fiddle with adjustments. The IR really reaches out there, up to 150 ft but the resolution wouldn't be enough. Will have to see how well motion detection picks up white blobs at a distance at day and night. Not recommending any cameras, just trying to figure out the best choices for me before I buy 14 more. I need about 90 degrees field on each one, and won't be monitoring and zooming cameras.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

2mp is starlight ones? This 4MP ones right now is also bit hot with H265, but i think best to work inside the house. Their nightvision not very powerful .

 

[Bryan]

2mp is starlight ones? This 4MP ones right now is also bit hot with H265, but i think best to work inside the house. Their nightvision not very powerful .

It didn't state Starlight, but here are the specs..

"Model DH-IPC-HDW4233C-A
System parameters Main processor manufacturer and model Ultra high performance processor
Camera Sensor type 1/3" CMOS
Electronic shutter 1/3s~1/100000s; can be adjusted manually or automatically
Minimum illumination 0.01LuxF1.2 (color); 0.001LuxF1.2 (black and white); 0Lux (IR lights open)
Maximum IR distance 50 m
Day and night IR-CUT automatic switching
Scan mode Progressive scan"

 

[zeoclang]

@Bryan Could you post a color night/low light (no IR) comparison? According to the Dahua website, the HDW4233 has a minimum illumination of 0.002 and the HDW4431 has a minimum illumination of 0.01.

 

[fenderman]

2mp is starlight ones? This 4MP ones right now is also bit hot with H265, but i think best to work inside the house. Their nightvision not very powerful .

that is not a starlight...

 

[Bryan]

Here's with a 3/4 moon and neighbor's house about 1000 ft away. Both cameras with IR off were pretty dark, unless I turned the brightness & gamma up to 70. Had HLC on and high sensitivity setting. Neither are starlight.

 

[TVT73]

It depends on what's you need. A good night view and more details on night, that's for the starlight series a good choice, but on day view, you will have less details as with a 4mp one. Next thing is you look on a free field less refections and therefore you run fast in over light in front of the cams. The SmartIR inside dahuas IR is working mostly good, but the object must move near enough to the cam. To get a view at night for 300m you need really strong ir power and maybe external intelligent IP IR solutions, but this is really expensive. (Raytec Network Lighting )
Dahua has some more powerful IR versions, but not for this range. Normally you will cover around 30-50m.

Why not to buy a ptz with auto tracking? Much more expensive, but there you can see a person in 100m with details. Megapixel is not all you needs. Or a thermal version, which alerts you and switch visible light on for normal cams. What do you do with 14 Cams? All around your building? If yes, i think this can be better solved.

What should be the desired working distance, when should be a person be identified? Or is it enough to see that there is a person?

Next thing is, although the picture may be bright enough (especially with BLC and 3D Denoise) you runs into blurred pictures, when the objects are moving.

I use the smaller external ir spots like this ones: Aliexpress.com : Buy CCTV 6pcs Array LED Illuminator IR Infrared Night Vision Light for CCTV Cameras from Reliable led cellphone suppliers on Shenzhen Ou shi yuan Technology(HK) Co., Ltd
But here the smart IR is not working and in near field its getting to bright.

 

[Bryan]

It depends on what's you need. A good night view and more details on night, that's for the starlight series a good choice, but on day view, you will have less details as with a 4mp one. Next thing is you look on a free field less reflections and therefore you run fast in over light in front of the cams. The SmartIR inside dahuas IR is working mostly good, but the object must move near enough to the cam. To get a view at night for 300m you need really strong ir power and maybe external intelligent IP IR solutions, but this is really expensive. (Raytec Network Lighting )
Dahua has some more powerful IR versions, but not for this range. Normally you will cover around 30-50m. Sorry, I just noticed I didn't put the distance as feet except on the little scale.

The map picture I posted has furthest about 200 feet, but I already figured the 2 and 4 MP cameras are good for about 100 - 125 ft (like you said 30 - 50 m). I'll have to settle for a perimeter at about 100 ft with a good view at night.

Why not to buy a ptz with auto tracking? Much more expensive, but there you can see a person in 100m with details. Megapixel is not all you needs. Or a thermal version, which alerts you and switch visible light on for normal cams. What do you do with 14 Cams? All around your building? Yes If yes, i think this can be better solved. I would probably run a trench with cable to the end past the driveway and mount another 2 MP camera on a post to catch outside the view of the house mounted camera. Need to keep the cost down.

What should be the desired working distance, when should be a person be identified? Or is it enough to see that there is a person? After thinking about it, they have to get close if they want to steal anything, so then I can identify them. If I'm at home at night, if the system at least detects movement at 150 ft, it should be enough to give me time to react. Most of the out-buildings are within 125 ft.

Next thing is, although the picture may be bright enough (especially with BLC and 3D Denoise) you runs into blurred pictures, when the objects are moving. Yep, found that out already..can't expect them to pose for a picture

I use the smaller external ir spots like this ones: Aliexpress.com : Buy CCTV 6pcs Array LED Illuminator IR Infrared Night Vision Light for CCTV Cameras from Reliable led cellphone suppliers on Shenzhen Ou shi yuan Technology(HK) Co., Ltd
But here the smart IR is not working and in near field its getting to bright.

 

[TVT73]

Maybe this idea is a possible way:
IR:
- You need a very well IR illumination all around your building. What´s with an combination of minimum 4 *18W 90°of my linked ir Spots, mounted on the roof on a pole, showing in the distance. Your Cams under the roof on the building does also use the integrated ir, but only for the narrow locking. And now you can use SmartIR.
Then combine it with light sensitive Starlight Cams. For the day Details you must use 4mp, for night the 2mp are better:
1. Cam Aliexpress.com : Buy DAHUA 4MP WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera H265 IPC HDW5431R Z,Free DHL shipping from Reliable camera h265 suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd
-> 12mm Starlight with 35°possible, put it to the north, looking to the street, it should cover the entry way. Put for this cam maybe a 5. IR Spot with the same small focus seperatly on the roof

Could you paint your desired mounting point on google pic 1? 14 cams will be not all, Did you thought about storage btw recording? Your bandwith will rise high with darkness ...
http://www.dahuasecurity.com/download_detail_161.html Look on the disk calculator.
If you want to keep it cheap, you need event trigger recording, 100% secure is only full time recording and event trigger for notifications. Although IVS is working great, it can happens, that it reacts to late or miss an event.

And a recorder in this also not so easy as it looks. An NVR 5216 is maybe to slow. Dahuas speaking of incomming bandwith should be used with much reserve. I read about problems when using the maximum cams on the series 5.
How do you want to keep an eye on all cams? the nvr´s can use a tour feature, with taking the cam in front where an event is triggered. That´s what i use with our NVR5208-4KS2 and 4 cams. This one should suite for 8 cams, but with high quality streams (8Mbit cbr) it comes to his limit. We see it on glitches in the picture and sometimes loosing connection to single cams.

 

[TVT73]

a really cool way is to use the IVS triggering white light in case of an event. Combined with an manual switch to turn it of when you are at home. Then you put some white light led spots on the same pole for panic and event light

 

[Bryan]

a really cool way is to use the IVS triggering white light in case of an event. Combined with an manual switch to turn it of when you are at home. Then you put some white light led spots on the same pole for panic and event light

The individual cameras' illumination seems to reach out far enough, it's just the distance vs resolution vs cost problem. As I said, they have to get close enough to steal something and would be recognizable. Is there any software that makes a variable zoom camera zoom to 12 mm when it detects motion?

 

[Bryan]

Maybe this idea is a possible way:
IR:
Did you thought about storage btw recording? Your bandwith will rise high with darkness ...
http://www.dahuasecurity.com/download_detail_161.html Look on the disk calculator.
If you want to keep it cheap, you need event trigger recording, 100% secure is only full time recording and event trigger for notifications. Although IVS is working great, it can happens, that it reacts to late or miss an event.

And a recorder in this also not so easy as it looks. An NVR 5216 is maybe to slow. Dahuas speaking of incomming bandwith should be used with much reserve. I read about problems when using the maximum cams on the series 5.
How do you want to keep an eye on all cams? the nvr´s can use a tour feature, with taking the cam in front where an event is triggered. That´s what i use with our NVR5208-4KS2 and 4 cams. This one should suite for 8 cams, but with high quality streams (8Mbit cbr) it comes to his limit. We see it on glitches in the picture and sometimes loosing connection to single cams.

I definitely would not have full recording while I'm at home. I would want motion detection to alert me that somebody is outside and start recording. It might be also okay while I'm gone, since they would have to cover 150 ft of yard to get to the house, and hopefully the delay would not be that much. Thanks for letting me know about the 5216.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Is there any software that makes a variable zoom camera zoom to 12 mm when it detects motion?

Not effectively, easily, or reliably, and you'll need a PTZ for that or the varifocal will just zoom into the center of the FOV, which is generally into the ground instead of motion that'll probably start in the distance in the upper part of the wide-angle FOV. If you use a PTZ with motion tracking, often it'll end up tracking trees blowing in the wind and then it won't be on-task covering things up close. Either that or it'll be tracking a car, the mailman, or a dog in the distance when you really want it covering the jerk in your driveway. Got two jobs with one up close and another in the distance? You need two cameras to get it done reliably.

 

[zeoclang]

Here's with a 3/4 moon and neighbor's house about 1000 ft away. Both cameras with IR off were pretty dark, unless I turned the brightness & gamma up to 70. Had HLC on and high sensitivity setting. Neither are starlight.

I don't see too much difference there. However, you don't have much ambient light around your house. I am curious how they would compare to each other if the install location was a typical suburban setting with streetlights and house lights nearby. Any chance you have a porch or flood light you could turn on? Have you decided which camera you like better?

 

[Bryan]

I don't see too much difference there. However, you don't have much ambient light around your house. I am curious how they would compare to each other if the install location was a typical suburban setting with streetlights and house lights nearby. Any chance you have a porch or flood light you could turn on? Have you decided which camera you like better?

I would use the IR on with each camera if I needed extra light. I am leaning towards the 4233C-A but I need to get an answer to what Andy at Empire brought up about local Chinese cams not being supported (next year) when used overseas. Never found out whether the 4233 is a local or International version.

 

[TVT73]

Hello Brian,
In my opinion the integrated ir is not powerful enough for your ambiance. To less reflections, and for reaching the high distance all manufacturers uses software based amplifiers. This results in motion blur and long shutter times. When you want to have to identify persons at night switch off blc, set the shutter time to lower time and then you will get sharp and clear pictures with moving persons. But unfortunately not with higher distances. Next thing, the ir power must be more when using wide angels. When you want to know more about it, in German it's called "photometrische Entfernungsgesetz" or photometric distance law.

And here is the great benefits of the starlight. But on day you will have less details.

If you only want to see that there is a person and don't need to identity them, you can use such setups also for bigger distances. Don't expect to much. 30 feed btw 5m is really much for wide angle 2mp cams...
I can give you tomorrow example pics for what I mean.

 

[Bryan]

Still testing. Set the shutter on manual to 1/4 like TVT73 said. Makes a big difference. Picture is with IR off, brightness & gamma 70. Trees are 800-900 feet away.
Just having trouble making the camera save the time. Keeps resetting to am when I switch yo live feed.

 

[Bryan]

I switched the camera to the back side of the house. Absolutely no light, we are out in the woods. Bright spot is some planet. 4233C-A on manual shutter at 1/3.

 

[TVT73]

What would you reach with this test? I thought you need it as a security cam and not as a weather cam. With this long shutter settings of course you can see something, but it's not suitable for security.
And have a look on the very poor details.
Maybe I should it write more exactly, you need a fast shutter speed for clear pictures of moving objekts. Without ir it's totally senseless.
When ir is switched on, blc is off, move yourself to the cam and look at what distance you will be visible. Have a look on the motion blur.
If it is to much on auto mode, go to prefer shutter speed. Now you need to go nearer to the cam. Is the distance enough for you?

 

[TVT73]

The first one is with single ir led integrated in an hfw-4431, blc on, shutter auto. Second one only with 9w 90 degrees external ir spot, blc of, shutter auto. With both 3dnr is on 50.

You're ones are more light sensitive, but not so much more than my ones.