cant decide which camera to go with

whoisthis

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i've been searching for awhile and so far i think Amcrest TB2886EW-AI is the best.
I have a bunch of Ring products but looking to add another NVR System.

Budget: about 350$ per camera. (Need 4 cameras) can be a bit higher. NVR needed separately.
Usage: for a ~1500 sq/ft house. Single or 2 stories.
Need: Clear day and night video quality. Be able to Identify a person or license plate from a distance. App support would be nice

Let me know what you guys think are the best for my need.
 

wittaj

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Do you want to pay more for cameras LOL. That Amcrest is on Amazon for $400. You are paying for the Amcrest name.

Our trusted vendor @EMPIRETECANDY that sells Dahua OEM (which is what Amcrest is but Amcrest is usually with lower quality components), sells a similar but better camera for $250.



Keep in mind this is a great camera, but it needs light, either light around the house or you keep the built-in lights on all night. So unless you have enough light or don't care to keep these lights on all night, you will need a camera that can see infrared. I have two of these cameras and they are great, but you have to make sure you have the proper placement and field of view for EVERY camera you get. A great camera in the wrong location results in poor performance no matter how great the camera is.

One camera cannot be the do all/see all. Rarely do all 2.8 or 3.6mm fixed lens provide what is needed. They work great to IDENTIFY at about 15 feet out if the camera is not on a 2nd story, but outside of that then it is the wrong camera.

Also do not chase MP - focal length and sensor size is more important than MP - in some instances a 2MP may be a better choice.

You need to select the right focal length for the distance you need to IDENTIFY.

See this thread complete with camera recommendations based on distance to IDENTIFY:




Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

1665161829118.png


See the LPR subforum for more information:

 
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whoisthis

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Do you want to pay more for cameras LOL. That Amcrest is on Amazon for $400. You are paying for the Amcrest name.

Our trusted vendor @EMPIRETECANDY that sells Dahua OEM (which is what Amcrest is but Amcrest is usually with lower quality components), sells a similar but better camera for $250.



Keep in mind this is a great camera, but it needs light, either light around the house or you keep the built-in lights on all night. So unless you have enough light or don't care to keep these lights on all night, you will need a camera that can see infrared. I have two of these cameras and they are great, but you have to make sure you have the proper placement and field of view for EVERY camera you get. A great camera in the wrong location results in poor performance no matter how great the camera is.

One camera cannot be the do all/see all. Rarely do all 2.8 or 3.6mm fixed lens provide what is needed. They work great to IDENTIFY at about 15 feet out if the camera is not on a 2nd story, but outside of that then it is the wrong camera.

Also do not chase MP - focal length and sensor size is more important than MP - in some instances a 2MP may be a better choice.

You need to select the right focal length for the distance you need to IDENTIFY.

See this thread complete with camera recommendations based on distance to IDENTIFY:




Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

See the LPR subforum for more information:

i will probably have Ring Spotlights that activated on motion detection.
https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Full-Color-Weatherproof-Detection-IPC-Color4K-X/dp/B099R9WG9M/ref=sr_1_10?imprToken=eNnu.Pmf5hsW5hcTVECAQg&linkCode=w61&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1665161570&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&slotNum=0&sr=1-10
Is this a camera you think is the best in 250-350$ range for my need (not LPR)? I havent heard about the brand IPC yet
 

wittaj

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At what distance to IDENTIFY and and what height for the cameras? If the height is no more than 8 feet and you want to IDENTIFY at 15 feet out, then it is a great camera provided you have light. Or it is a great overview camera. But if you want to IDENTIFY 40 feet out, it is the wrong camera.


Most here find that cameras and motion activated floodlights ends up causing problems with image exposure and are bad for surveillance cameras.. What happens is then the camera is momentarily blinded and you lose the ideal capture when the lights kick on and the camera adjusts from basically no light to a lot of light.

Motion activated lights are not a deterrent. There are enough videos here showing that perps do not flinch when a floodlight turns on. They avoid homes all lit up, so go with floodlights on all night.

Watch this video someone posted and how the floodlight comes on and they don't even flinch. But then the audio comes on and they don't know which way to run LOL.



Either keep the lights on all night or not at all to ensure the best chance of capture.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated floodlight comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:

1665166487414.png


Or this example that completely missed the perp:




Andy's cameras are Dahua and Hikvision OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech. IPC is short for IP camera and isn't a brand. Every POE camera is IPC.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon and AliExpress store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

As long you you buy from the vendor EmpireTech or Loryta on Amazon (or AliExpress), they are Andy cams and Dahua or Hikvision OEM.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua and Hikvision USA authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from a USA authorized dealer.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua and Hikvision website, thus proving they are real Dahua and Hikvision. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 and 49425 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provides cameras to Andy to sell before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...

You do have to be careful with some rebranded cameras purchased from other vendors as they are cameras that are for the Chinese region but have been hacked into English but then are not able to be updated or they will brick. Buying from a reputable source is key to make sure that doesn't happen.
 
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mat200

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i've been searching for awhile and so far i think Amcrest TB2886EW-AI is the best.
I have a bunch of Ring products but looking to add another NVR System.

Budget: about 350$ per camera. (Need 4 cameras) can be a bit higher. NVR needed separately.
Usage: for a ~1500 sq/ft house. Single or 2 stories.
Need: Clear day and night video quality. Be able to Identify a person or license plate from a distance. App support would be nice

Let me know what you guys think are the best for my need.
Hi @whoisthis


looks like a nice good camera ..

In general I recommend people new to IP PoE cameras get 1-2 cameras and start playing with them before committing to a larger number of cameras.

There's a lot we all did not know nor understand well enough until playing around more with our "real world" situations.



Amcrest Night Color AI Bullet IP PoE Camera w/ 164ft Full Color Nightvision, Security IP Camera Outdoor, Built-in Microphone, Face Detection, Human & Vehicle Detection, 4K@30fps IP8M-TB2886EW-AI


1665166798423.png
 

looney2ns

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i've been searching for awhile and so far i think Amcrest TB2886EW-AI is the best.
I have a bunch of Ring products but looking to add another NVR System.

Budget: about 350$ per camera. (Need 4 cameras) can be a bit higher. NVR needed separately.
Usage: for a ~1500 sq/ft house. Single or 2 stories.
Need: Clear day and night video quality. Be able to Identify a person or license plate from a distance. App support would be nice

Let me know what you guys think are the best for my need.
Study this: Wiki
And this: Sebastiantombs Cam Tips
 

whoisthis

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I guess i wouldn't mind light up my house 24/7 but the electricity bill.. lol
Maybe i can have some dim lights 24/7 and have the Floodlights activate when detecting motion. Maybe this won't wash out the image when it activates?

So after digging through this forum a bit, it seems like a lot of people are depending on this one individual, Andy, who is based in Hong Kong.
Is this really a reliable option? Since he is an individual from Hong Kong, he can pretty much do whatever he wants with the cameras, coding and whatnot.


As far as the option for cameras, ive picked these ones : Please let me know if there are better options.
Dahua cameras for mid to long distance and Ring products i already have for short distance.

1 of these facing the street "5241-Z12E - varifocal up to 64mm - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer) (motorized lense)"



Maybe 1of these in the backyard and another one in the front "5442 ZE or 5842-ZE- varifocal up to 13mm- distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer) (motorized varilocal)"



AI camera for backyard and sides of the house. I think the Ring cameras i already have are pretty useful for short Distance so maybe just these 2 cameras from Dahua.

(3.6mm)

(2.8mm) for 10ft distance clarity)




At what distance to IDENTIFY and and what height for the cameras? If the height is no more than 8 feet and you want to IDENTIFY at 15 feet out, then it is a great camera provided you have light. Or it is a great overview camera. But if you want to IDENTIFY 40 feet out, it is the wrong camera.


Most here find that cameras and motion activated floodlights ends up causing problems with image exposure and are bad for surveillance cameras.. What happens is then the camera is momentarily blinded and you lose the ideal capture when the lights kick on and the camera adjusts from basically no light to a lot of light.

Motion activated lights are not a deterrent. There are enough videos here showing that perps do not flinch when a floodlight turns on. They avoid homes all lit up, so go with floodlights on all night.

Watch this video someone posted and how the floodlight comes on and they don't even flinch. But then the audio comes on and they don't know which way to run LOL.



Either keep the lights on all night or not at all to ensure the best chance of capture.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated floodlight comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:


Or this example that completely missed the perp:




Andy's cameras are Dahua and Hikvision OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech. IPC is short for IP camera and isn't a brand. Every POE camera is IPC.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon and AliExpress store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

As long you you buy from the vendor EmpireTech or Loryta on Amazon (or AliExpress), they are Andy cams and Dahua or Hikvision OEM.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua and Hikvision USA authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from a USA authorized dealer.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua and Hikvision website, thus proving they are real Dahua and Hikvision. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 and 49425 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provides cameras to Andy to sell before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...

You do have to be careful with some rebranded cameras purchased from other vendors as they are cameras that are for the Chinese region but have been hacked into English but then are not able to be updated or they will brick. Buying from a reputable source is key to make sure that doesn't happen.
 
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While Andy does work with both Dahua and users here on IPCT to eliminate firmware bugs and to improve firmware, he does not "modify" it to "spy on you"/ You are far too paranoid and that is coming from a paranoid. Do you really think with all the highly technical people here on IPCT that if he were doing something like that it wouldn't have been caught already? As has been said, keeping the cameras from having access to the internet is the best way to insure that there is "no spying" and, more importantly, no hacking of your network or your equipment, cameras, printers, PCs and IOT stuff. Setting up Ring with port forwarding, scan the QR code method, is far more susceptible to hacking/spying.

Without a layout, showing distances, commenting on the cameras you mention is a little difficult. Lighting conditions are always important no matter what camera you use since they all need light to "see". I will venture that once you see how any of those perform you opinion of Ring may change.
 

wittaj

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You shouldn't trust ANY camera manufacturer LOL.

Your Ring products that need internet access and scanned a QR code are a bigger problem than you think and a bigger problem than these cameras...

The big difference is most of us here isolate the cameras from the internet and our network so they are on their own little island. Doesn't matter what cyber breaches exist or any ill-intent code cause they don't touch the internet.

Try to use your Ring without internet and tell us how well it works lol.

If you are that concerned about Andy's cameras, then go to Dahua website and flash their firmware on them lol. A few do that. But what they find is that Andy's relationship is so good with Dahua that they make firmware tweaks based on input from us that never make it to their official hardware.

But again ANY camera that you allow internet access is capable of being hacked. Every one including expensive NDAA Axis in the past year.

Based on distances I think the camera selections you picked look like the correct one for the area you want to cover, but without a layout or photos hard to know for sure. We would recommend buying one 5442-ZE and test it at all locations.

So, do you have night video from close up of Ring camera that you can share? We have a whole thread showing how poor they perform at night. Maybe you have great night video or maybe until you get one of these cameras you don't realize how bad the quality is lol.

So, how do you plan to use these cameras - incorporate them into Ring now that they allow (or will be soon) onvif compliant cameras into their platform or do you plan to do another VMS?
 

whoisthis

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My original plan was to use my Ring products for 2 way talk, siren, sensors and door bell, and use Dahua camera system with NVR connected to Router.
If something were to happen then i can go in to NVR and look at footage. But it'd be nice to check live footages on my phone with Dahua system.
I don't think i want to incorporate Dahua in to Ring as if one goes down, everything goes down.

When you said,"The big difference is most of us here isolate the cameras from the internet and our network so they are on their own little island", you mean like using two routers? one for security system and another one for other things. Or do not use phone apps at all for the security system?

I guess i shared the cameras i picked to see if they are the best cameras as the cameras themselves. Very difficult to just jump in to Security camera world and start comparing all the numbers on specs.
 

wittaj

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The cameras you picked are from my recommendations list based on distance that are the one most here would recommend for those distances. These models represent the best value in image and MP/sensor ratio. Can you buy more expensive - yes but most of us don't feel like the value is there. Can you buy cheaper - yes but then they will not perform as well at night due to using sensors made for 720p or 1080p and stuffing 4K on it.

No not two routers. Since you are going the NVR route, you do not set up the app as P2P so that the NVR doesn't route your stuff thru China servers, but instead host a VPN on your system that you VPN back into.

Don't be confused on VPN - not the paid VPN as that is for porn and illegal streaming becuae it hides your IP address. You use a free VPN like OpenVPN that is native to many routers.
 

whoisthis

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No, not two routers. This>> How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk

Not to pick on you, but it's obvious you don't know what you don't know, yet.
After reading that article, it requires you to Turn off UPnP UPnP from Modem as well. So you pretty much have to have a dedicated internet service for the security system to be very secure.
i'd think if you Turn off UPnP UPnP on the main modem then there would be inconvenience for daily regular use.

As far as using VPN, you can still use a phone app to access cameras but just gotta use VPN. Is that right?
 

wittaj

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It is good practice to have it turned off.

None of us here have an issue with it turned off. It means when you get a new device you have to manually enter user and password - small inconvenience for the safety of the system.

That is correct - you can use the phone app on your local network and when away from home you VPN back into your home network to put you back on the local network.

It means an extra step when away from home but it keeps the system off the internet.

But you are using and will continue to use Ring cameras, so your system is already exposed. Now you decide if Dahua is more or less secure than a Ring product and then decide how to proceed accordingly.

BTW the NVR acts as a VLAN of sorts and put the cameras on a different IP address than your home network, so it is only the NVR that is "exposed".
 

whoisthis

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i'll look in to Turning off UPnP.
From my understanding it is best to use built in VPN on Router that is on all the time, by doing so it slows the internet speed a bit. This wouldn't be ideal for the main router.
People don't mind slower internet speed and not buy a second router?
 

wittaj

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It is only in use when you are VPNing in and only slows down your mobile at that moment...maybe...I have tested mobile speeds and sometimes the VPN tunnel actually allows faster speed on my mobile. But mobile speed can be so up or down.

But it doesn't slow down your home network. Adding a second router can introduce double NAT situations and other problems if you don't know what you are doing. If someone is that concerned they would get two internet drops and two modems.
 

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looney2ns

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i'll look in to Turning off UPnP.
From my understanding it is best to use built in VPN on Router that is on all the time, by doing so it slows the internet speed a bit. This wouldn't be ideal for the main router.
People don't mind slower internet speed and not buy a second router?
Turn it off, it's a big security risk. It was NEVER designed to be used on the Internet.
I notice no slow down what so ever with my OpenVPN server running on my Asus router.
 

whoisthis

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ok so i went ahead and turned off UPnP.
Turned on Dynamic DNS on my Netgear router. (Service provider shows NETGEAR. But there is NO-IP.com and DYN.com option) Just stick with Netgear provider?
Enabled VPN service on my router. (Clients will use this VPN connection to access: set to AUTO)

Do i need to do anything on Port Forwarding Section?
Do i need to change subnet or whatever so it's not a common number? or am i getting in to too much details now

@wittaj i read on one of your posts that i need to create certificate. Is this a must with OPENVPN? By doing so, will i be effected by how i used to use internet on my PC?
 

wittaj

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You should make sure nothing is port forwarding.

The certificate for OpenVPN is created to copy to your mobile device so that your mobile device can connect to OpenVPN - a device cannot connect to VPN without it. It has zero impact on your PC and can be deleted from PC after you copy it to the mobile device. It doesn't impact any other device on your LAN.
 
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