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Ukraine related: Was Ukraine Government Is Handing Out Guns To Citizens, What Happened to Gun Control?

bigredfish

bigredfish

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tigerwillow1 said:
I'll agree about hating violence, and I'm afraid of saying something careless that can be mistaken as promoting or supporting it. So taking the risk, I'll say that one man's violence is another man's self defense. If somebody is kidnapped in a non-violent way, is it acceptable to resort to violence to escape? If Canada or Mexico had decided to join the Warsaw Pact, was the USA to accept it because they are a sovereign country? If Russia were with permission to install missiles in Cuba, do we let them do it to avoid the risk of violence? I went through school back when they taught the 3 Rs, and also was taught that the USA never starts wars and reluctantly joins them only when it's for a righteous cause. I've since seen that the USA frequently starts wars and it's usually about gaining money and power one way or another. I can easily see that Russia can feel backed into a corner and might be responding out of fear, which may be real or imagined. Fear responses are often irrational. It sure looks like the western countries have stoked that fear. I don't think this would have blown up at all if Trump were still in power, and I think Trump's attitude about Ukraine in NATO would be to say that we love Ukraine and would like to have them in NATO, but Russia deserves to not have the threat of the western military sitting on their border, so it's best for Ukraine to stay out of NATO and we won't love them any less for it.
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To your point
A Surprising Explanation Of Russia's Invasion From A Former Top-Level CIA Official | ZeroHedge
 
T

tigerwillow1

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BobRegnar said:
I'm in agreement with most of what you wrote, but curious about this:
" I've since seen that the USA frequently starts wars and it's usually about gaining money and power one way or another."
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I didn't want to step into something that would take a lot of my time but since I stepped in it I'll try at least a feeble response. Excluding the war on terror takes away the easy examples, because so much USA intervention since 9/11 is justified under that umbrella. I'm not good on history and am taking much of the info below from a book The Sorrows of Empire, copyrighted in 2004.
  • USA deploys over a half million military personnel, government support employees, and civilian contractors in other countries.
  • 9 to 12 carrier task forces active at any given time.
  • USA has about 800 known military bases in over 70 countries.
  • Geroge W Bush said "We must take the battle to the enemy..confront the worst threats.." (I'm cheating here, this is under the WOT umbrella).
  • USA employs private military companies that are not bound by laws and regulations that limit USA military intervention:
....Dyn-corp 23,000 employees, Cubic 4,500, MPRI 700 permanent staff + 10,000 on call former military (2004 numbers)
- Private military company revenue $56 billion in 1990, projected $202 billion in 2010. List / Directory of PMCs or Private Military Companies (contractors, firms) | Corporate Profiles, Services, Capabilities, Locations, Commercial Evolution | Expert Solutions in Areas of Combat Support, Field Security, Military Training, Defense Intelligence, and Reconstruction

Here are 2 non-WOT examples of US meddling, certainly not the best because of my lack of history knowledge.

1. HOW PENTAGON OFFICIALS MAY HAVE ENCOURAGED A 2009 COUP IN HONDURAS

2. "In 1991, a Haitian military regime overthrew the elected President, Jean-Bertrand Arisitide. The US military intended to forcibly remove this regime in 1994 via Operation Uphold Democracy." U.S. Intervention in Haiti · Clinton Digital Library

A couple of snips from the book I mentioned:
  • In 1943 FDR wrote "I hereby find the defense of Saudi Arabia is vital to the defense of the United States".
  • In 1953 the Eisenhower administration assisted the British in "a blatantly illegal plan to overthrow an Iranian government that wanted a fairer share of the country's oil revenues", justified as free world resistance to the threat of communism.

I'm not taking a position if actions like this are justified or not, just that they are about money and power.
 
BobRegnar

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tigerwillow1 said:
I didn't want to step into something that would take a lot of my time but since I stepped in it I'll try at least a feeble response. Excluding the war on terror takes away the easy examples, because so much USA intervention since 9/11 is justified under that umbrella. I'm not good on history and am taking much of the info below from a book The Sorrows of Empire, copyrighted in 2004.
  • USA deploys over a half million military personnel, government support employees, and civilian contractors in other countries.
  • 9 to 12 carrier task forces active at any given time.
  • USA has about 800 known military bases in over 70 countries.
  • Geroge W Bush said "We must take the battle to the enemy..confront the worst threats.." (I'm cheating here, this is under the WOT umbrella).
  • USA employs private military companies that are not bound by laws and regulations that limit USA military intervention:
....Dyn-corp 23,000 employees, Cubic 4,500, MPRI 700 permanent staff + 10,000 on call former military (2004 numbers)
- Private military company revenue $56 billion in 1990, projected $202 billion in 2010. List / Directory of PMCs or Private Military Companies (contractors, firms) | Corporate Profiles, Services, Capabilities, Locations, Commercial Evolution | Expert Solutions in Areas of Combat Support, Field Security, Military Training, Defense Intelligence, and Reconstruction

Here are 2 non-WOT examples of US meddling, certainly not the best because of my lack of history knowledge.

1. HOW PENTAGON OFFICIALS MAY HAVE ENCOURAGED A 2009 COUP IN HONDURAS

2. "In 1991, a Haitian military regime overthrew the elected President, Jean-Bertrand Arisitide. The US military intended to forcibly remove this regime in 1994 via Operation Uphold Democracy." U.S. Intervention in Haiti · Clinton Digital Library

A couple of snips from the book I mentioned:
  • In 1943 FDR wrote "I hereby find the defense of Saudi Arabia is vital to the defense of the United States".
  • In 1953 the Eisenhower administration assisted the British in "a blatantly illegal plan to overthrow an Iranian government that wanted a fairer share of the country's oil revenues", justified as free world resistance to the threat of communism.

I'm not taking a position if actions like this are justified or not, just that they are about money and power.
Click to expand...

I don't see a lot of money and power listed there. For Honduras we'd have to debate the worth and purpose of the School of the Americas but even if influencing military coups could be about money and power I'd say it's more in line with pacifying a troublesome neighbor or region than money and power. And the action in Haiti, a complete failure, wasn't money or power. It's Haiti. And does it make a difference if the country asked for our help? We usually make a mistake in trying to set up or force democracy on countries that don't have it, I'll give you that but that costs us money and generally lots of it.

Oil is more difficult. It's more a thing of vital national interest than just going after money or power. The threat of cutting off a necessary element of business and defense needs to be countered as an existential threat. I don't think that's imperialism but what we have installed a government to do.

I don't know anything about the book you cited or its author but I think if he's one to blame-America-first for everything wrong in the world he will see imperialism behind everything we do.

And as an aside about money and power madness concerning the corporations mentioned earlier as belligerents in this Russian war, these corporations along with some others and big tech think they can elect the next president and install other world leaders under the same cancel culture tactics they bring against Russia. That would mean the end of democracy and freedom of any sort. Should they be stopped from taking over the US, by any means necessary, before that happens?
 
mat200

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At the End of WWII this conference was key to setting up the system to allow for global trade .. centered on the USA to help ensure it functioned.
( US mighty dollar and military would help keep the global trade functional - this has been a key part of the Pax-America ( USA ) world .. )

en.wikipedia.org

Bretton Woods system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
mat200

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Russia is beginning to level the cities now ..






Russian "Z" BTR-80s (?)




Finders keepers..
 
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CCTVCam

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mat200 said:
Russian Cruise Missiles ..

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Copied from the one they captured from the US no doubt:

nationalinterest.org

Fact: Russia Captured an Unexploded U.S. Tomahawk Missile

Fortunately, the Cold War-era Tomahawk is a bit of a dinosaur when compared to the supersonic and hypersonic weapons that are being developed today.
nationalinterest.org nationalinterest.org

Must admit the motor sound from it is great.

What they need is a few traditional AA guns. Quite a few US ones shot down that way.
 
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