Strange FTP Behavior IPC-HDW4431C-A

[ScarletSpeedster]

Hello all,
I've got an IPC-HDW4431C-A (4MP 3.6MM Fixed focal Dome with Audio) that I'm working with.
I don't have an NVR, and am instead using FTP as storage for the device.
I use this concept on plenty of IPC-HDW4300 (S and/or C models) without issues, but this one is giving me a little annoyance.

Basically, I've setup a computer with Filezilla Server & appropriate permissions & NO FIREWALL, and configure this in the camera. I use the same computer with the 4300 & 4431, so I'm amazingly confident it's not a computer issue at all.

What's happening though is with the 4431, the camera is re/connecting to the FTP server every ~1 second, doing nothing, just disconnecting, and doing it again, AT IDLE. When the motion detection trips, it connects properly with another session and uploads video just fine.
Stated differently, I will always have a connecting/disconnecting session once a second, and if motion is tripped, a 2nd session uploading the video successfully.

The only setting that changes this behavior is the "Enable" Checkbox under Storage>Destination>FTP
No other field/setting/option affects this behavior. Even under Storage>Record Control>Record Mode, auto/manual/off will still continue this connect/disconnect issue. Again, stated differently, the very second I enable & save the FTP option under Storage>Destination, my FTP server starts getting hit by successful logins from the camera.

It's not really a problem I suppose, as everything works, but it sure is filling up my log files and triggers my filezilla activation notice, which I was using as a flag warning that hi-jinks is afoot (as the icon changes color when someone connects; it was a great way to tell activity with the 4300 series).

Here is a sample of the log from filezilla server:
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - (not logged in) (192.168.1.251)> Connected on port 21, sending welcome message...
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - (not logged in) (192.168.1.251)> 220-My FTP Server.
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - (not logged in) (192.168.1.251)> USER XXXXXXXXXX
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - (not logged in) (192.168.1.251)> 331 Password required for camera
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - (not logged in) (192.168.1.251)> PASS XXXXXXXXXXXXX
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> 230 Logged on
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> PWD
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> 257 "/" is current directory.
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> CWD /
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> 250 CWD successful. "/" is current directory.
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> ALLO 1048576
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> 202 No storage allocation neccessary.
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> CWD /
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> 250 CWD successful. "/" is current directory.
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> ALLO 1048576
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> 202 No storage allocation neccessary.
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> QUIT
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> 221 Goodbye
(693687)1/30/2017 16:24:29 PM - camera (192.168.1.251)> disconnected.

Has anyone else seen this issue before, or know how to fix? With all the "i've bricked my camera" posts, I'm not sure if I want to play with firmware on an ebay bought camera, but wanted to confirm with you experienced folk before going that route. I've tried reconfiguring, letting it sit ~1 week, going through every menu in the camera, etc, all the basics before asking for help, but no joy yet.

My Version
Device Type: IPC-HDW4431C-A
Software Version: 2.420.0000.21.R, Build Date: 2016-07-24
WEB Version: 3.2.1.364036
ONVIF Version: 2.42

Thanks in advance!
SS

 

[nayr]

try increasing the number of times a user is allowed to be logged in

 

[ScarletSpeedster]

Hey Nayr,
Thanks for the quick reply!
I assume you're talking on Filezilla, in which case, unlimited user connect limit, and I've tried giving it its own user (camera2) as well as running it under the 3x shared "camera" user.
Nothing makes a difference.

Near as I can tell, the actual Camera->Computer connection process is flawless, there's just something triggering this specific camera/firmware to keep it connecting, even if it has nothing to do.
There's nothing technically wrong it's doing I believe, and when the camera does have something to do, uploads of the video stream are fully successful. I've tried modifying the video user/password/file path/permissions/pre-record event/duration pack all to no avail with this connection "issue".

And the camera responds as expected when changing any of the other settings also, so at this point, I'm assuming a firmware change (up or down-grade) is in order, but I've never done that before on any Dahua as there's never been anything broken enough to warrant trying, until this.

 

[nayr]

its checking to make sure it has free space, and your ftpd dont support it.. thats the whole ALLO thing.. your 4300 series are old as dirt, late 2013 iirc.. firmware has changed alot since then and those havent got a new firmware in a coupe years

even if your ftpd conformed to specs fully I suspect it'd still do this on occasion; perhaps not as frequently though.

probably a feature cause IIRC you can have an email alert if storage is not available or the disk is full.. if your recording on motion only it wont know its not there until it cant record.

 

[ScarletSpeedster]

My current (and default) settings are Disk full>overwrite, but neither that or the alternate "stop" makes any difference.
Filezilla seems to acknowledge this well enough, as that's just a 202 (superfluous).

You're probably right though with the 4300's, where they're old enough to not even bother checking for storage, which made them work "better" in this case.
I just looked it up, the 4300s is:

IPC-HDW4300S-V2
Software Version: 2.420.0004.0.R, build : 2014-11-03
WEB Version: 3.2.1.229556
ONVIF Version:2.4.1
They have seemed stable enough for my uses, and I haven't had a reason to update.


Do you have any experience with the 4431 though, or any of it's other firmware versions?
Do you know where I could find other versions of this camera's firmware even? (I get woefully out of depth on dahua firmwares)

 

[nayr]

thats a china model camera, its been hacked.. all the dahua firmware will revert it back to Chinese unless you get the modified firmware files from: Dahua Firmware Mod Kit + Modded Dahua Firmware

but its not going to revert this behavior or change it in any way; FTP Storage fucking sucks in just about every way.. you should consider a real NVR, you can use PC-NVR for free w/Dahuas

 

[alastairstevenson]

Not totally relevant to your query - but similar - when a NetHDD NAS destination is configured on a Hikvision NVR (7816, 3.4.80 FW) it pings the NAS once per second and announces it in the serial console, presumably an availability check:

<nfs_test> start!
<nfs_test> start!
<nfs_test> start!

So probably not that unusual.

 

[ScarletSpeedster]

Eh,
I disagree with your view on FTP. It's an old protocol, but still works just fine. Feel free to tack on S or Sftp, and it's just as good as anything else out there for my money. FTP hasn't changed drastically in decades, so SHOULD be something anything and its brother can understand and it's free & easy to setup and check from whatever hardware/software client you can think of. It's extremely easy to access and shouldn't be hard to offload anywhere. That's exactly what I want in a file transfer concept.

I am getting more and more forced into their SmartPSS (or, for cost BlueIris, but man, clients can be CHEAP), but SPSS chews up much resources and has annoying PTZ control quirks, it's default install doesn't work with win10 and their "instant replay" (and I haven't bothered to investigate it further, since again, FTP just works. (or at least it had)), and let's be paranoid for a second, I've never wiresharked the software to see what dial-home it's capable of and I'm guessing most people haven't either.

Regardless, of setup concepts, the extremely basic environment of FTP->Computer is what's here and really shouldn't be dismissed just as it's "old". It's simple and stout and what more does one need with non-actively-monitored cameras?

I do appreciate the link to Dahua Firmware, time to go read up on that and see what I can break next.
Thanks!

 

[nayr]

keep on sticking your head in the sand and not realizing what your missing; ooh a green activity light on FTPD means something might be happening.. we have this thing called a timeline that allows to record continuously without ever missing anything and highlighting activity.. instant reply works perfectly w/a NVR, I can play back all my recordings remotely with an app on my phone, I get push recordings and IVS/Tripwire, Intrusion Detection.. Dunno what you mean SmartPSS is quirky w/PTZ's as its by far the most responsive and accurate way to controll them with software.

I ran a FTPD based recorder for a while when I was saving up for a NVR; and boy did I feel stupid as fuck for thinking it was suitable or even closely comparable.. I shoulda just bought a good NVR out of the gate after looking back.

but as you said; it works and all your doing right now is bitching about nothing mutch at all and your even willing to risk breaking your shit to do absolutely nothing about the non-existant problem as I forwarned..

that must be some really good koolaid

 

[ScarletSpeedster]

Wow, that escalated quickly.
There's no Koolaid to drink. Find me any other solution with a $0 cost add that can be run off a PIII 500Mhz and smart phone. You can't.
That's the project goals for this environment. I didn't make the rules, but I can easily come up with a winning solution for them.

I never said an NVR wouldn't be better, but for the concept, FTP and large HDD should have exactly no reason to not work perfectly. And arguably, it still does, its just filling up my log files. Also an easy fix though I suppose.
If updating firmware is that hard/dangerous/risky than I don't need to do that either.

Simply put though, FTP is simple and cheap and is what my client wanted for a camera system to cost $300 + labor. (and yes, that $300 cost went directly to the cheapest place so I can get enough cameras to cover the building, yay ebay?)
I do appreciate the advice though, and you're clearly well versed into the Dahuas, so I appreciate your experience in all this as well, but neither you nor I can change the client's mind, so your "enthusiasm" here is a little misspent.

Apologies if I've offended though, but FTP really shouldn't get anyone swearing, it's a great, simple protocol.
Cheers.

 

[nayr]

Wow, that escalated quickly.
There's no Koolaid to drink. Find me any other solution with a $0 cost add that can be run off a PIII 500Mhz and smart phone. You can't.

NAS Storage can be used to playback video through the native WebUI and SmartPSS and Mobile Clients; so can local SD card storage.. You should check out Home · moeiscool/Shinobi Wiki · GitHub

there I just did, that modified firmware by @cor35vet should unlock NAS storage on your china cam

 

[ScarletSpeedster]

Dunno what you mean SmartPSS is quirky w/PTZ's as its by far the most responsive and accurate way to controll them with software.

To follow up though,
Smart PSS 1.15.0
Built Date: [sic] 2016-10-11
Can't handle PTZ transitioning from split to umm..non-split view?
So, while >1 split view with >=1 PTZ, you can keep & maintain PTZ control (and by PTZ control I mean that mouse-enabled zoom function) while 'activating" any of the cameras. I.E. highlighting any camera, and then going back to PTZ window will still bring an actively controlled session back to PTZ.

HOWEVER, when going from 4-split (with 1/4 being PTZ) then "maximizing" any of the non-PTZ, THEN going back to 4 split, will still show the PTZ control highlighted, but it won't work, so you have to keep toggling that on&off to get it to re-engage.

It's a quirk, hence labelled a quirk, but it's still annoying.

 

[nayr]

This is been resolved in SmartPSS 2.0

 

[ScarletSpeedster]

NAS Storage can be used to playback video through the native WebUI and SmartPSS and Mobile Clients; so can local SD card storage.. You should check out Home · moeiscool/Shinobi Wiki · GitHub

there I just did

SmartPSS destroys old CPUs for me. I'm running a 4 camera feed into a i7-6700 and it's eating ~35% CPU while active. Again, old hardware, but SmartPSS sucks for this particular environment.

Most of these ~<$100 cameras don't have local storage, and then NAS vs FTP is 6 vs six IMHO.

 

[ScarletSpeedster]

This is been resolved in SmartPSS 2.0

Really?! AWESOME!!! downloading now.
This is great news!

P.S. Why are they still keeping up with the 1.X line?
i.e. what's the difference between 1.16 and 2.00?
Software

 

[nayr]

you cant access recordings stored on FTP via SmartPSS or GDMSS, but you can access recordings stored via NAS and get the full timeline and all the other features just the same as local storage.

 

[nayr]

Really?! AWESOME!!! downloading now.
This is great news!

P.S. Why are they still keeping up with the 1.X line?
i.e. what's the difference between 1.16 and 2.00?
Software

Huge difference in 1.16 and 2.0; they are actively maintaining the last 2 major versions as many industrial/corporate environments wont do major updates with drastic UI changes quickly as it requires retraining users/employees.. they backported some new features to 1.16 and not quite everything that we had in 1.x has made it to 2.x

 

[tangent]

that can be run off a PIII 500Mhz and smart phone.

Old computers use a lot more power generally and give you a lot less in return. You might be better off running something like a raspberry pi 3, probably more powerful at a fraction of the power usage.

 

[nayr]

SmartPSS destroys old CPUs for me. I'm running a 4 camera feed into a i7-6700 and it's eating ~35% CPU while active. Again, old hardware, but SmartPSS sucks for this particular environment.

Most of these ~<$100 cameras don't have local storage, and then NAS vs FTP is 6 vs six IMHO.

its eating 35% of one of your 8 threads.. thats not the same thing as using 35% of all your cpu resources.

SmartPSS is sitting at ~60% CPU load for me with 6 streams open, I get 100% CPU Load out of browser plugin w/same 6 streams loaded, but overall system load is a mere 6% in use.. the fans on my laptop dont even kick on w/SmartPSS but they will after about 10s of the Browser plugin.

 

[ScarletSpeedster]

Huge difference in 1.16 and 2.0; they are actively maintaining the last 2 major versions as many industrial/corporate environments wont do major updates with drastic UI changes quickly as it requires retraining users/employees.. they backported some new features to 1.16 and not quite everything that we had in 1.x has made it to 2.x

This is amazing information i don't have elsewhere. Thanks for this. For Small environments, do you like v2 or v1.16 better? If not everything in 2 has made it across, is there a list of things I'd be missing?

Old computers use a lot more power generally and give you a lot less in return. You might be better off running something like a raspberry pi 3, probably more powerful at a fraction of the power usage.

Indeed, clients are fun to work with sometimes, but I'm not quite able to get a new machine out of the deal yet. It's his electric bill, not mine, so I'm not pushing the subject. But I agree.