New setup: 2 camera's and a NVR

[Iemand91]

My brother is thinking about installing a system consisting of 2 camera's and a NVR.
I have the IPC-HDW5231R-ZE camera and I'm quite happy with it. He has it temporarily installed behind a window.

From this forum, I've read the IPC-HDW4231EM-ASE is reasonable comparable, apart from the varifocal lens.
My idea was to use my camera (5231R-ZE) to see what kind of lens he needs and buy the 4231EM-ASE with the appropriate lens. (2.8, 3.6 or 6mm)
We would also need 2 PFA139 Junction Boxes to mount the camera's on.

Then I would get the NVR4104-4KS2 / NVR4108-4KS2 / NVR4116-4KS2 with a WD Purple 1TB drive to record everything. The idea would be 24/7 recording with IVS so he can playback events easily without going through 24/7 of recording.

As for powering these camera's; I'm using
these; they're cheap and great to use. Would need 2 of these.

So; as far as hardware goes:
2x IPC-HDW4231EM-ASE
2x PFA139 Junction Box
2x 230V EU POE injector
1x NVR4104-4KS2 / NVR4108-4KS2 / NVR4116-4KS2
1x WD Purple 1TB drive. (Local webshop).

This would set him back about €403 - €419. Quite a lot for just 2 camera's, but I hope this is something reliable.

The situation is this. In this image is the map of the house and garden. I've added red lines representing the desired view from the camera. On the top, next to his driveway is the driveway of his neighbour.
On the bottom/other side of the house; is the house/garden of the other neighbours.
The second image has the dimensions (in meters). It is slightly outdated, but representable of the current situation.



Here is the view from the North. The desired location of the camera is indicated with the red star.


The view from the South; again the desired location of the camera is indicated with the red star.


Now why I've made this thread.
- These camera's with the mentioned NVR should work together right? We would like to get 24/7 recording with IVS events highlighted.

- Andy also has this version of the NVR4108-4KS2; it's €15 more expensive than this one, but why? What's the difference?
The 4104 (4 channel) should be enough for two camera's and he has no plans to add more camera's.
So the 4108 or 4116 NVR is not needed and as far as I can tell; the only difference is the amount of live view the NVR can display on a screen. We don't plan to place the NVR near a TV, but hide it someplace a burglar can't find it.

- I would like to use my 5231R-ZE to see what kind of lens he needs. I know most of you don't like wide-angle/2.8mm on IP-camera's, but if he gets a 2.8mm lens; he has more of the door in view (below the camera).
But he would have less detail in the front of the house/garden of course.
We might use corridor mode (vertical video) instead of horizontal; how awkward this may look.
But how can you tell at what focal length you are when you're zooming with the 5231R-ZE?
It's goes from 2.7 to 13.5mm, but how can you tell you're at 6mm for example? Or is this just guesswork?

- Is there anything else I should think off?

 

[Iemand91]

Today I used my IPC-HDW5231R-ZE to figure out what lens is needed in this situation on the IPC-HDW4231EM-ASE. More info here: Using vari-focal camera to determine focal length of fixed-focus camera

I'm not sure yet, but it looks like it'll be 2.8mm with one of the camera's in portrait mode.
(the North/driveway camera)
I'm not sure what NVR I'll get, the NVR4104/4108 or 4116-4KS2, that depends on the price Andy will give me.

 

[cam235]

So far I have been using an older Linux laptop running Bluecherry as my makeshift NVR. It has been working reliably and I am good with that solution, but now a neighbor wants advice and I don't want to recommend something that needs a lot of configuration. So I'm curious what a good entry-level NVR would be. For cameras I have been pretty happy with the price/performance ratio of the cheap end of the Dahua line, the IPC-HDW4431C-A although they usually need additional light for nighttime. I did replace their stock wide-angle lenses with longer ones (12, 16 and 25mm) for specific purposes.

EDIT: I see the NVR4108 on AliExpress for $100 without any HDD and no PoE. I'm curious if there are any reviews of this unit online?

 

[mat200]

So far I have been using an older Linux laptop running Bluecherry as my makeshift NVR. It has been working reliably and I am good with that solution, but now a neighbor wants advice and I don't want to recommend something that needs a lot of configuration. So I'm curious what a good entry-level NVR would be. For cameras I have been pretty happy with the price/performance ratio of the cheap end of the Dahua line, the IPC-HDW4431C-A although they usually need additional light for nighttime. I did replace their stock wide-angle lenses with longer ones (12, 16 and 25mm) for specific purposes.

EDIT: I see the NVR4108 on AliExpress for $100 without any HDD and no PoE. I'm curious if there are any reviews of this unit online?

Hi Cam235,

We've got a number of members using that model NVR, so do take a closer look here for their comments on it.

 

[Iemand91]

While still deciding on what lens we should get for the IPC-HDW4231EM-ASE cameras, using the screenshots from my IPC-HDW5231R-ZE, I started to look around on Aliexpress.

A few months ago I needed €400 for the following: (cameras, wall mounts and NVR from Andy)
- NVR4104-4KS2
- IPC-HDW4231EM-ASE (2x)
- PFA139 wall mount (2x)
- 230V POE injector (2x, different Aliexpress store)
- WD Purple 1TB HDD (local webshop)

Now it's about €365, great.
However, if I would get the camera's elsewhere, I could get the same setup but with IPC-HDW5231R-Z camera's for the old and already indicated €400.

I would save us quite a lot of deciding which lens to use on the 4231 and we would have the option of changing the focal length later on if it suits the situation better.
And not having the chance of deciding on the wrong lens on the 4231 when ordering and get an inferior or unusable lens/camera for the situation. (to wide or to narrow field of view)

The 5231 camera's are about €115 at other Aliexpress stores with free shipping and upgradable firmware. (you can find them when you sort on 'most orders')
I am a bit skeptical about possible import taxes (none with Andy) and possible support if that's needed in the future.
I like Andy, I like his support and everything on this forum and I like his shipping methods (no import taxes, yay!) but this is tempting.
I'm not planning on buying the NVR and wall mounts elsewhere, because Andy has good prices on them.
I'll maybe ad another same NVR to the order for myself.

 

[mat200]

While still deciding on what lens we should get for the IPC-HDW4231EM-ASE cameras, using the screenshots from my IPC-HDW5231R-ZE, I started to look around on Aliexpress.

A few months ago I needed €400 for the following: (cameras, wall mounts and NVR from Andy)
- NVR4104-4KS2
- IPC-HDW4231EM-ASE (2x)
- PFA139 wall mount (2x)
- 230V POE injector (2x, different Aliexpress store)
- WD Purple 1TB HDD (local webshop)

Now it's about €365, great.
However, if I would get the camera's elsewhere, I could get the same setup but with IPC-HDW5231R-Z camera's for the old and already indicated €400.

I would save us quite a lot of deciding which lens to use on the 4231 and we would have the option of changing the focal length later on if it suits the situation better.
And not having the chance of deciding on the wrong lens on the 4231 when ordering and get an inferior or unusable lens/camera for the situation. (to wide or to narrow field of view)

The 5231 camera's are about €115 at other Aliexpress stores with free shipping and upgradable firmware. (you can find them when you sort on 'most orders')
I am a bit skeptical about possible import taxes (none with Andy) and possible support if that's needed in the future.
I like Andy, I like his support and everything on this forum and I like his shipping methods (no import taxes, yay!) but this is tempting.
I'm not planning on buying the NVR and wall mounts elsewhere, because Andy has good prices on them.
I'll maybe ad another same NVR to the order for myself.

Hi Lemand,

Do drop Andy a line he does give members of IPcamtalk a slight discount.
Remember the lower prices you often see are associated with the super slow ( and at times unreliable ) shipping methods.
There's a good reason why a larger number of us really like him, he provides better customer service than vendors I have at times dealt with in the USA.

 

[Iemand91]

I had email contact with Andy but he quoted higher prices for the NVR's then on his Aliexpress shop; the camera's the same.
The whole setup with NVR, junction boxes and 2 5231 cameras would rise to about €450 which is more then my brother and I decided on a few months ago.
The same setup with 4231 cameras would be about €370 which is actually a bit lower then a few months ago.
The same setup with 5231 cameras bought elsewhere on Aliexpress gets the cost back to €400 but then I'll expect import cost from those cameras that would cancel out the savings.
(Import costs on a $140 camera's is about $50 which together is obviously much more than the $170 5231 camera wich no import cost/slow shipping from Andy)

Andy also doesn't want to ship the slow way (to EU/Netherlands) since the Chinese Holidays are coming up and packages gets lost apparently.

So I guess I'll wait for the Chinese Holidays to be over and take that time to decide what lens to use on the 4231...

 

[Al*_*]

This would set him back about €403 - €419

- Andy also has this version of the NVR4108-4KS2; it's €15 more expensive than this one, but why? What's the difference?

A few months ago I needed €400 for the following

Now it's about €365, great

The 5231 camera's are about €115 at other Aliexpress stores with free shipping and upgradable firmware.

would rise to about €450 which is more then my brother and I decided

bought elsewhere on Aliexpress gets the cost back to €400

Andy also doesn't want to ship the slow way

I am not sure what you are doing here iemand91? I guess it is okay when you are interested in gear and have to consider the right price which comes with it. People mentioned where you can purchase and from what I understand, you have had an offer. I am sure @EMPIRETECANDY can talk for himself but sometimes it does irritate to see/read, people try to talk in a bad way about a business model or about goods, which clearly (otherwise everybody on this board would go somewhere else) are, price-quality wise, the best you can get!

Now, back to your list summing all up. To me it seems you are trying to convince yourself to spend (compared to original goods, a little) cash on very nice gear. If it is hurting you so hard maybe you should reconsider if you are 'up the game'. Or maybe just wait another year. I'm sure prices went down by then....

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

I had email contact with Andy but he quoted higher prices for the NVR's then on his Aliexpress shop; the camera's the same.
The whole setup with NVR, junction boxes and 2 5231 cameras would rise to about €450 which is more then my brother and I decided on a few months ago.
The same setup with 4231 cameras would be about €370 which is actually a bit lower then a few months ago.
The same setup with 5231 cameras bought elsewhere on Aliexpress gets the cost back to €400 but then I'll expect import cost from those cameras that would cancel out the savings.
(Import costs on a $140 camera's is about $50 which together is obviously much more than the $170 5231 camera wich no import cost/slow shipping from Andy)

Andy also doesn't want to ship the slow way (to EU/Netherlands) since the Chinese Holidays are coming up and packages gets lost apparently.

So I guess I'll wait for the Chinese Holidays to be over and take that time to decide what lens to use on the 4231...

hmm, this time very easy lost parcels, so we only use DHL, last week my customer lost 3pcs NVR5832-4KS2 at their agent warehouse! Don't know where they ship to, lost 1500usd.... there is only 2 days working here. I just want to ship all out intime and no mistake or missing.

 

[Iemand91]

I am not sure what you are doing here iemand91? I guess it is okay when you are interested in gear and have to consider the right price which comes with it. People mentioned where you can purchase and from what I understand, you have had an offer. I am sure @EMPIRETECANDY can talk for himself but sometimes it does irritate to see/read, people try to talk in a bad way about a business model or about goods, which clearly (otherwise everybody on this board would go somewhere else) are, price-quality wise, the best you can get!

I'm not talking bad about anyone. I was just suprised that after all the talk on this forum about discounts; I actually got quoted a higher price then the regular prices on Aliexpress.
Do note; I was not expecting any major discounts; I know the competition on Aliexpress is enormous and he can't do that sort of discounts just like that.
I would be perfectly fine with the normal prices since I like his business model, his support and - most of all - his shipping methods to the EU/Netherlands which saves me a lot of extra import costs.

Now, back to your list summing all up. To me it seems you are trying to convince yourself to spend (compared to original goods, a little) cash on very nice gear. If it is hurting you so hard maybe you should reconsider if you are 'up the game'. Or maybe just wait another year. I'm sure prices went down by then....

I'm comparing the fixed-focal 4231 with the vari-focal 5231. The 4231 is a perfectly fine camera and a setup with that camera would actually save him (it's not for me, it's for a family member) around €70 / $86.
(basically the price another 4231 camera)
The major disadvantage of this camera is obviously the fixed lens. Therefore I used my 5231 to determine which focal lengths he needs (2.8 / 3.6 / 6 mm). I discussed that practice here: Using vari-focal camera to determine focal length of fixed-focus camera
To me, it looks like he's going to need 2 2.8mm or 1 2.8mm and 1 3.6mm camera.
But we would stil risk getting the wrong lens.

The 5231 would eliminate that risk but it obviously more expensive. But like I said; buying those from a different seller on Aliexpress that offers those cameras for less than Andy does; would still get me on budget.
However; those sellers don't offer the amount of support Andy does (let alone on this forum) and Andy offers the great slow shipping method without added import costs for me.
I would still get the NVR('s), junction boxes etc. from Andy because of his prices, support, shipping etc.

I opened this topic to get input from more experienced users on the possibilities for this setup.
I got nothing.
Luckily I did a lot or reading and now I know what I would need on my own.
Maybe I'm just a bit disappointed by this forum because of:

1) Despited giving a good amount of info in this topic about the house/situation, budget etc. I got now input.
2) I'm contemplating on whether to buy 2 4231 of 2 5231 and from which seller, but nobody gives any input apart from spend more, get the more expensive one and buy from Andy.
(Even though there are plenty of other sellers on Aliexpress that are good enough for the low prices accessoires and stuff)
3) Several users talking about using a vari-focal camera to determine the focal lengths of fixed-focal camera's. However; when asking about this practice (Using vari-focal camera to determine focal length of fixed-focus camera) ; apparently nobody actually does this, apart from truglo who gave very handy information.

And lastly - not so important - talk on this forum about special prices for IP Cam Talk members but actually get quoted higher for the same items. Bit weird, wasn't expecting that.

hmm, this time very easy lost parcels, so we only use DHL, last week my customer lost 3pcs NVR5832-4KS2 at their agent warehouse! Don't know where they ship to, lost 1500usd.... there is only 2 days working here. I just want to ship all out intime and no mistake or missing.

I understand completely. I have plenty of experience with this and I know this is a hectic period.
You said it lasts until February 24 so we'll order after that so you can send it the slow way again.
I'll guess we can use that time to decide on whether to get the 4231 (and what lenses) or 5231.
Maybe by that time, you have the PFA130-E back in stock.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

I'm not talking bad about anyone. I was just suprised that after all the talk on this forum about discounts; I actually got quoted a higher price then the regular prices on Aliexpress.
Do note; I was not expecting any major discounts; I know the competition on Aliexpress is enormous and he can't do that sort of discounts just like that.
I would be perfectly fine with the normal prices since I like his business model, his support and - most of all - his shipping methods to the EU/Netherlands which saves me a lot of extra import costs.



I'm comparing the fixed-focal 4231 with the vari-focal 5231. The 4231 is a perfectly fine camera and a setup with that camera would actually save him (it's not for me, it's for a family member) around €70 / $86.
(basically the price another 4231 camera)
The major disadvantage of this camera is obviously the fixed lens. Therefore I used my 5231 to determine which focal lengths he needs (2.8 / 3.6 / 6 mm). I discussed that practice here: Using vari-focal camera to determine focal length of fixed-focus camera
To me, it looks like he's going to need 2 2.8mm or 1 2.8mm and 1 3.6mm camera.
But we would stil risk getting the wrong lens.

The 5231 would eliminate that risk but it obviously more expensive. But like I said; buying those from a different seller on Aliexpress that offers those cameras for less than Andy does; would still get me on budget.
However; those sellers don't offer the amount of support Andy does (let alone on this forum) and Andy offers the great slow shipping method without added import costs for me.
I would still get the NVR('s), junction boxes etc. from Andy because of his prices, support, shipping etc.

I opened this topic to get input from more experienced users on the possibilities for this setup.
I got nothing.
Luckily I did a lot or reading and now I know what I would need on my own.
Maybe I'm just a bit disappointed by this forum because of:

1) Despited giving a good amount of info in this topic about the house/situation, budget etc. I got now input.
2) I'm contemplating on whether to buy 2 4231 of 2 5231 and from which seller, but nobody gives any input apart from spend more, get the more expensive one and buy from Andy.
(Even though there are plenty of other sellers on Aliexpress that are good enough for the low prices accessoires and stuff)
3) Several users talking about using a vari-focal camera to determine the focal lengths of fixed-focal camera's. However; when asking about this practice (Using vari-focal camera to determine focal length of fixed-focus camera) ; apparently nobody actually does this, apart from truglo who gave very handy information.

And lastly - not so important - talk on this forum about special prices for IP Cam Talk members but actually get quoted higher for the same items. Bit weird, wasn't expecting that.

I understand completely. I have plenty of experience with this and I know this is a hectic period.
You said it lasts until February 24 so we'll order after that so you can send it the slow way again.
I'll guess we can use that time to decide on whether to get the 4231 (and what lenses) or 5231.
Maybe by that time, you have the PFA130-E back in stock.

slow service already stopped. lol

 

[Iemand91]

slow service already stopped. lol

I know. But you'll start again using slow service after the holidays hopefully?

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

I know. But you'll start again using slow service after the holidays hopefully?

ok! We can do later if you want to use that.