New Hardware and BI v5 - Graphics requirements?

[revbilly]

Can you believe I'm still running BI version 4? My computer hardware can barely carry it, so I've put off upgrading until now. Some of my new webcams have to be throttled down to low resolution to keep the old system from crashing, and that pushed me over the line. I plan to avoid upgrading and just use my old license to start a new B5 system from scratch, on new hardware. I need to support 5 - 9 cameras, with only 2-3 standard HD or higher. Of course, I do want to build in some expandability.

So I've looked at some specs on the forum, and I'm thinking I'll want to build the hardware to avoid compromises (Let me know if there's a good off-the-shelf system I should consider). I see that integrated graphics is recommended, but I also see some recommendations for a high-end nVidia card. I assume a decent onboard graphics system would be best? I see an i5-12600K with Intel UHD 770 graphics, and an I7-6700 with integrated Intel HD 530 graphics.

Opinions? Warnings?

 

[wittaj]

Now that substreams have been introduced, you do not need a graphics card unless you plan to use Deepstack or SenseAI.

What computer do you have? A 12th gen for 9 cameras is overkill.

People are running 30+ cameras on a 4th gen CPU at sub 30%.

If you have a 3rd or 4th generation computer, all you need to do is update to BI version 5 and implement substreams and it will make your computer seem like new again!

 

[revbilly]

Now that substreams have been introduced, you do not need a graphics card unless you plan to use Deepstack or SenseAI.

What computer do you have? A 12th gen for 9 cameras is overkill.

People are running 30+ cameras on a 4th gen CPU at sub 30%.

If you have a 3rd or 4th generation computer, all you need to do is update to BI version 5 and implement substreams and it will make your computer seem like new again!

I appreciate your suggestions. I don't spend easily, and try to get the most out of what I have, but the old system has had it's day. I think it's time for a new computer. It's an ancient HP with an AMD A6 processor and just 4GB of RAM purchased in 2016. I don't want to try to revive the old thing with some additional RAM and an SSD if it's going to be hard to maintain. As much of a miser as I am, I think I'd rather buy or build new at his point.

Also, I already have substreams in the BI v4 that I'm running. Even though I have the substreams set to a much lower resolution and frame rate, my viewer (on the same machine running the service) still chokes. Maybe I need to tell the system to use those lesser streams when it can? I don't know where to set how those streams are used, but they are there.

So, if you can help me be more frugal in this project, please keep the suggestions coming!

 

[fenderman]

I appreciate your suggestions. I don't spend easily, and try to get the most out of what I have, but the old system has had it's day. I think it's time for a new computer. It's an ancient HP with an AMD A6 processor and just 4GB of RAM purchased in 2016. I don't want to try to revive the old thing with some additional RAM and an SSD if it's going to be hard to maintain. As much of a miser as I am, I think I'd rather buy or build new at his point.

Also, I already have substreams in the BI v4 that I'm running. Even though I have the substreams set to a much lower resolution and frame rate, my viewer (on the same machine running the service) still chokes. Maybe I need to tell the system to use those lesser streams when it can? I don't know where to set how those streams are used, but they are there.

So, if you can help me be more frugal in this project, please keep the suggestions coming!

Your two options are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Buy this 8th gen i5 (Which is faster than the 6th gen i7-6700 you posted). Throw an 500gb ssd in there and you are good to go.

HP EliteDesk 800 G4 TWR | intel i5-8500@3.0GHz | 32GB RAM | 1 TB HDD | WIN10PRO | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HP EliteDesk 800 G4 TWR | intel i5-8500@3.0GHz | 32GB RAM | 1 TB HDD | WIN10PRO at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[revbilly]

Your two options are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Buy this 8th gen i5 (Which is faster than the 6th gen i7-6700 you posted). Throw an 500gb ssd in there and you are good to go.

HP EliteDesk 800 G4 TWR | intel i5-8500@3.0GHz | 32GB RAM | 1 TB HDD | WIN10PRO | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HP EliteDesk 800 G4 TWR | intel i5-8500@3.0GHz | 32GB RAM | 1 TB HDD | WIN10PRO at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

That's an economical option for sure! I'm not sure if I want to go with used. Temping, though. What's the other end of the spectrum? A system based on one of the processors I mentioned? Even buying new, the configuration you suggest would be less money and time than I was fearing.

 

[wittaj]

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit.

 

[revbilly]

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit.

In my old job I worked with a local firm that would recycle truckloads of office pcs and other equipment for me. They did a great job of reconditioning the ones that were worth it, and I did buy a printer or two from them after I retired. Unfortunately, I think they're out of business. Not sure I could trust just anyone to do that work, though. I want this system to be reliable, above all.

 

[Rob2020]

Look at the Dell Outlet, I have bought several scratch and dents over the years, as opposed to refurbs, and never found more than a very minor scratch. These are new machines with factory warranty and classified as scratch & dent. Inventory changes constantly, here are a few examples of the current offerings;

Edited to add, I see you mentioned building, I am a big fan of building. I am running six Dahua cams on a Ryzen 2700 with 16 GB RAM and a 6GB Nvidia Super Card. I do not use the card, I have tried it both ways, just using the CPU I rarely exceed 10%, sometimes in the 12-13% range, RAM typically around 3GB, lots of expansion
room The GPU dropped the CPU to the 7% range but then of course the GPU usage comes into play. Runs great with straight CPU so that is what I use.

 

[bp2008]

AMD A6 processor

An upgrade is definitely warranted then

I see an i5-12600K with Intel UHD 770 graphics

Integrated graphics is fine but I wouldn't buy a 12th gen CPU since the 13th gen is out and socket-compatible, unless it was a very substantial discount.

and an I7-6700 with integrated Intel HD 530 graphics.

I'm not sure if I want to go with used.

Given your hesitance to buy a "used" system, that makes it sound like you found a "new" i7-6700. It is either overpriced or it is a lie. Don't overspend on old parts just because the word "new" is in the title. Old used business class systems work fine and likely have Windows 10 activation tied to the motherboard already even you have to install a new SSD and install windows from the media creation tool.


Here's a cheaper system. Dell Optiplex 7040 MT Intel Core i7-6700 3.40GHz 8GB RAM No HDD No OS | eBay -- oh wait it sold already

Around $100 can frequently get you an i7-6700 system with no HDD. i5 boxes from around that era are a little cheaper if you really want to pinch pennies and they will still work well with 5-9 cameras in BI v5 when you use dual streaming (main and sub streams configured for each camera).

i7-6700 in Desktops & All-In-Ones for sale | eBay

www.ebay.com

 

[fenderman]

That's an economical option for sure! I'm not sure if I want to go with used. Temping, though. What's the other end of the spectrum? A system based on one of the processors I mentioned? Even buying new, the configuration you suggest would be less money and time than I was fearing.

The i-7 6th generation processor you mentioned would have to be used. You will also want the system with Windows pro so you can easily disable automatic updates

 

[revbilly]

The i-7 6th generation processor you mentioned would have to be used. You will also want the system with Windows pro so you can easily disable automatic updates

Ah! So THAT's why they recommend Win 10 Pro instead of Home! I do hate those updates coming down at bad times, or the bad updates coming down at good times! lol Any other benefit from paying for Pro over Home?

 

[Mike A.]

And pro has RDP which you can use to run the server headless. Other ways to do that too though.

 

[fenderman]

Ah! So THAT's why they recommend Win 10 Pro instead of Home! I do hate those updates coming down at bad times, or the bad updates coming down at good times! lol Any other benefit from paying for Pro over Home?

You can add pro to any home system for a hundred bucks by buying the upgrade from Microsoft.

 

[revbilly]

You can add pro to any home system for a hundred bucks by buying the upgrade from Microsoft.

I was hoping to use my BI server to also run the console, which I display next to my TV so I can keep an eye on things and have easy access to the system. Is there any reason I can't run the console on the same machine running the service with v5? I've always done it with v3 through v4.

Any other reason to go "Pro" besides update control and RDP?

 

[Rob2020]

Pro is obviously better but something to consider. I don't run pro but since my machine runs 24/7, I see the Windows update prompt in the corner icon tray. I ignore it for weeks and then look online to see if any issues exist with the latest update. I hope after two or three weeks the bugs are fixed in the update. I am an optimist.

I should update to pro.

 

[Mike A.]

Yes, you can run the console. A little lower CPU that way since you don't have the RDP overhead.

Nothing else that I can think of that will affect use for BI. Maybe kiosk mode if you wanted to do that but other ways also.

List of differences:

Compare Windows 11 Versions: Home & Pro vs. Windows 10 | Microsoft

Compare Windows versions and see why you should upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11. Find out the difference between Windows 11 Pro and Home and see which is best for you.

www.microsoft.com

 

[fenderman]

I was hoping to use my BI server to also run the console, which I display next to my TV so I can keep an eye on things and have easy access to the system. Is there any reason I can't run the console on the same machine running the service with v5? I've always done it with v3 through v4.

Any other reason to go "Pro" besides update control and RDP?

There is no reason why you cant do that. No other reason to go with pro - for this case use. Either way for an i5-12500 system you should not pay more than 500-600.

 

[revbilly]

Look at the Dell Outlet, I have bought several scratch and dents over the years, as opposed to refurbs, and never found more than a very minor scratch. These are new machines with factory warranty and classified as scratch & dent. Inventory changes constantly, here are a few examples of the current offerings;

Edited to add, I see you mentioned building, I am a big fan of building. I am running six Dahua cams on a Ryzen 2700 with 16 GB RAM and a 6GB Nvidia Super Card. I do not use the card, I have tried it both ways, just using the CPU I rarely exceed 10%, sometimes in the 12-13% range, RAM typically around 3GB, lots of expansion
room The GPU dropped the CPU to the 7% range but then of course the GPU usage comes into play. Runs great with straight CPU so that is what I use.

Thanks for that info on the card vs onboard graphics. It puzzled me why one would want a nice graphics card on the console, much less the server. I never thought of the off-loading of graphics processing saving cycles on the main processor. I agree it's a nit in most situations. I'll go with the onboard graphics, especially if I build.

 

[fenderman]

Thanks for that info on the card vs onboard graphics. It puzzled me why one would want a nice graphics card on the console, much less the server. I never thought of the off-loading of graphics processing saving cycles on the main processor. I agree it's a nit in most situations. I'll go with the onboard graphics, especially if I build.

This is not needed on your system. You have a tiny load. You can run way more cams/Megapixels with AI than you posses on much slower processors. GPU is more expensive to run power wise.

 

[wittaj]

Around the time AI was introduced in BI, many here had their system become unstable with hardware acceleration on (even if not using DeepStack or CodeProject). Some have also been fine. I started to see that error when I was using hardware acceleration.

This hits everyone at a different point. Some had their system go wonky immediately, some it was after a specific update, and some still don't have a problem, yet the trend is showing running hardware acceleration will result in a problem at some point.

However, with substreams being introduced, the CPU% needed to offload video to a GPU is more than the CPU% savings seen by offloading to a GPU. Especially after about 12 cameras, the CPU goes up by using a GPU and hardware acceleration.

My CPU % went down by not offloading to a GPU.

It is best to just use the GPU now for AI and use substreams for BI.