LPR and general surveillance two story house

Tron

Tron

n3wb
Aug 12, 2017
10
11
Hi all,

I check the LPR section every now and then seeing how the technology is adapting to recognising licence places. After digging around this forum I've come to the understanding there is about 3-4 cameras that work the best. One being the IPC-HFW7442H-Z.

I currently have two cameras mounted under the eaves of a two story house one on each corner to face both directions. The distance from the camera to the road is approx 20m however I can't for the life of me ever get a clear picture of a plate. My ideal solution to this is finding a camera model that can replace those two cameras that can do the general surveillance + LPR however I realise from reading around that may not be possible and I may need to just invest in having dedicated LPR cameras. The closest camera I can get to the road is probably 10m.

Three years ago in the middle of the night we had a Landcruiser break into a couple of cars, they seemed to be smart enough that they used high beam up until the point they were in between both camera views when they switched off the high beams. The high beams obviously distorted the whole area of the licence plate and you couldnt anything from the car. The other day we had someone take number plates in broad daylight, going off the footage with it being daylight, perfect conditions I struggle to even see somewhat of a place even though the car with the thief is literally stopped almost right outside the house.

Would the IPC-HFW7442H-Z be a recommended camera in this situation? I realise there are more variables too it of course and can outline it a bit more if it helps!

I've also come to the understanding EMPIRETECH is an amazing vendor to deal with on the purchasing side so I take it once I get to the stage of buying I contact him?

Thanks in advance.
TJ
 
Yes, you need to have a camera dedicated to LPR. A camera cannot do both LPR and do overview, especially at the distance you are at.

Do you want the camera to be able to read and log the plates, or just the ability to be able to visually read them with your own eyes?

Many of us use the the 5241E-Z12E as it has a powerful enough optic zoom to optically zoom in to a tight area at a distance to get plates. And then many of us use Plate Recognizer or OpenALPR to do the actual reading and logging of plates. In many instances, especially in the US, these 3rd party plate readers are better than the internal plate reader of a camera.

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E IP Camera 2MP Starlight WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera English Version

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E IP Camera 2MP Starlight WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera English Version
www.amazon.com

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my camera:


1607010182386.png


Which camera do you have now? Does it have optical zoom or do you need to digital zoom to get the plate large enough? Plus it sounds like you do not have the settings correct to capture plates.
 
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wittaj said:
Yes, you need to have a camera dedicated to LPR. A camera cannot do both LPR and do overview, especially at the distance you are at.

Do you want the camera to be able to read and log the plates, or just the ability to be able to visually read them with your own eyes?

Many of us use the the 5241E-Z12E as it has a powerful enough optic zoom to optically zoom in to a tight area at a distance to get plates. And then many of us use Plate Recognizer or OpenALPR to do the actual reading and logging of plates. In many instances, especially in the US, these 3rd party plate readers are better than the internal plate reader of a camera.

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E IP Camera 2MP Starlight WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera English Version

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E IP Camera 2MP Starlight WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera English Version
www.amazon.com

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my camera:


1607010182386.png


Which camera do you have now? Does it have optical zoom or do you need to digital zoom to get the plate large enough? Plus it sounds like you do not have the settings correct to capture plates.
Click to expand...


Hey there, thanks for your reply.

Do you want the camera to be able to read and log the plates, or just the ability to be able to visually read them with your own eyes?
- The ability to playback a video (albeit slowly) and see the plate myself is fine. I would prefer not needing an extra bit of software and am happy to just go through footage manually as long as I can seek the video and get a plate from it. If it is better to do it the "read and log" way though I am open to that way just as long as there is some way I can see the plates.

Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my camera
- We have a couple of street lights just outside so potentially might be enough.. However don't mind B&W. That is a really impressive shot of a plate, would you say you have a high success rate of capturing? or is it a bit hit and miss? and we do tend to have lots of utes and such with big spotlights going at the front of their cars, is the camera going to capture the plate through heavy light like that?

Which camera do you have now? Does it have optical zoom or do you need to digital zoom to get the plate large enough? Plus it sounds like you do not have the settings correct to capture plates.
- I have two Reolink RLC-422 that I got installed about 3years ago now. It has 4x optical zoom but the more zoomed in the less quality of the shot I found. I am fine with leaving them just as general surveillance and just having dedicated LPR cameras if thats the route to go with..

I've attached some of the different sorts of plates we have here in Australia for your reference too.

NSWPlate2.jpegNSWPlate.jpegAUNTPlates.jpeg
 
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Yeah Reolink's will never cut it, especially at night. And for LPR, forget about it if the car is moving.

I get over 99% of the plates. You will get an occasional rusty plate or dirty plate or temp tag paper plate, but that image above is representative of what you can get.

Yes, running at the faster shutters 1/2000 the image as you see in mine is completely black except for the head/tail light and plates. I have had some vehicles come in with a ton of aftermarket lighting all around the front of the car and the plate was still captured. It is all about the shutter speed and reflectivity of the plates with IR that is how plates are captured in a residential setting.

The nice thing about the 3rd party Plate Recognizer or OpenALPR is the ability to log and track plates, but many here do not do that and simply have the video available if something happens, they can play it back and read the plate. It is totally optional. I ran my LPR for about a year before adding a 3rd party plate reader program in the mix.

The goto camera for many of us is the one EmpireTech sells:

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E IP Camera 2MP Starlight WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera English Version

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E IP Camera 2MP Starlight WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera English Version
www.amazon.com

And for your reading pleasure about the reolinks....

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
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What are you using to record and view your video now? That will also impact what cams you can use.
 
wittaj said:
Yeah Reolink's will never cut it, especially at night. And for LPR, forget about it if the car is moving.

I get over 99% of the plates. You will get an occasional rusty plate or dirty plate or temp tag paper plate, but that image above is representative of what you can get.

Yes, running at the faster shutters 1/2000 the image as you see in mine is completely black except for the head/tail light and plates. I have had some vehicles come in with a ton of aftermarket lighting all around the front of the car and the plate was still captured. It is all about the shutter speed and reflectivity of the plates with IR that is how plates are captured in a residential setting.

The nice thing about the 3rd party Plate Recognizer or OpenALPR is the ability to log and track plates, but many here do not do that and simply have the video available if something happens, they can play it back and read the plate. It is totally optional. I ran my LPR for about a year before adding a 3rd party plate reader program in the mix.

The goto camera for many of us is the one EmpireTech sells:

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E IP Camera 2MP Starlight WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera English Version

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E IP Camera 2MP Starlight WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera English Version
www.amazon.com

And for your reading pleasure about the reolinks....

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
Click to expand...

Perfect! I'll grab one from EmpireTech and once it gets across the ditch to aus I'll start having a play with the shutter settings and get a temporary setup. Will keep everyone in the loop too Thanks for your help thus far. I guess OpenALPR and Plate Recogniser is good for the fact of getting a plate quickly without the need of surfing through footage.

Ahh yes Reolink doesn't seem to get the best view I see haha, happy to accept that.


samplenhold said:
What are you using to record and view your video now? That will also impact what cams you can use.
Click to expand...

Currently using Blue Iris 5 on a very high performance machine I7,32gb memory etc etc. It doesn't seem to pull much of a sweat doing the two reolinks I have now.
 
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Andy is quite quick on the mark and I am now thoroughly on the track to having an LPR system with my new Dahua having arrived!

I've got it linked up on the network and will get it in some sort of a temporary mount position in the next couple of days. Whilst it is a bit of an art and it will be different circumstances for different situations, are there any settings I should focus on having set correctly? I've had a quick look in the cameras web interface and couldn't see the shutter speed settings although didn't get a good chance to look before getting called away for work.

Thanks!
 
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Alright so got a temporary mounting position together to do some testing and got it all hooked up. Dialed in the settings (thanks @wittaj ) and did some adjustment just with general traffic flowing. Gotta say first impressions are very good! I appear to be getting almost all plates - I've attached some images for taking a look. The way I have it mounted at moment unfortunately won't let me point down any further so I am picking up a fair bit above the road area so until I sort that I can't increase my zoom any further sadly. But positive note is that it is going great so hats off to everyone :D
2021-08-20_20-20-28.jpg2021-08-20_20-20-42.jpg2021-08-20_20-20-51.jpg
 
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