Looking to upgrade cameras
- Thread starter bamaster
- Start date
What is your goal and what do you want to accomplish as that will dictate camera choices?
For example, the driveway camera - is your goal to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet of the camera or 40 feet from this location? Makes a difference on the camera choice.
Other than several of the cameras being mounted too high, the picture quality appears decent. I am sure motion is a different story especially at night.
Are you running on default settings or have you dialed them in?
What is it about these that you do not like?
For example, the driveway camera - is your goal to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet of the camera or 40 feet from this location? Makes a difference on the camera choice.
Other than several of the cameras being mounted too high, the picture quality appears decent. I am sure motion is a different story especially at night.
Are you running on default settings or have you dialed them in?
What is it about these that you do not like?
picture looks good to me. why do u want to change/upgrade ?
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
I don't see a problem, other than what @wittaj has mentioned.
You can't compare cameras that are looking at different FOV.
Each camera needs to be adjusted to it's surroundings and FOV.
Leaving them on auto will not provide what the camera can truly do.
Those 5231's do indeed have sound.
That said, read this and the included links.
You can't compare cameras that are looking at different FOV.
Each camera needs to be adjusted to it's surroundings and FOV.
Leaving them on auto will not provide what the camera can truly do.
Those 5231's do indeed have sound.
That said, read this and the included links.
Thanks for the replies. I wasn't clear about why I'm so "blah" about the situation. Here are some better captures at night that look terrible.
The lights get blown out at night, which may be a problem for all cameras, I guess. The front door struggles in daylight, resulting in very poor video of people. The driveway camera needs to be cleaned, I know, but it still doesn't look good at night.
Are there any cameras that would do better with HDR? Any thoughts?
The lights get blown out at night, which may be a problem for all cameras, I guess. The front door struggles in daylight, resulting in very poor video of people. The driveway camera needs to be cleaned, I know, but it still doesn't look good at night.
Are there any cameras that would do better with HDR? Any thoughts?
Are you running default settings like auto shutter and 50 on the picture settings?
Looking at that, I suspect so. Even great cameras will look like crap if running on default settings.
Post your camera settings and let's see if we can dial them in.
The front porch cam is a tough field of view and needs some WDR added in.
Or you can try these suggestions first:
Light is certainly a much needed friend to these types of cameras! Auto/default settings rarely produce the best results, especially at night.
In my opinion, shutter and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 30ms as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And when if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible. HLC at 50, unless for LPR, will certainly degrade the image with motion.
Looking at that, I suspect so. Even great cameras will look like crap if running on default settings.
Post your camera settings and let's see if we can dial them in.
The front porch cam is a tough field of view and needs some WDR added in.
Or you can try these suggestions first:
Light is certainly a much needed friend to these types of cameras! Auto/default settings rarely produce the best results, especially at night.
In my opinion, shutter and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 30ms as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And when if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible. HLC at 50, unless for LPR, will certainly degrade the image with motion.
The first thing I've added is a day and night profile. I never used that, but I can see how it makes a difference. And I've been playing with the shutter settings. It's made a lot of difference. I'm using 10-12 depending on the scene. I've also adjusted the brightness.
I would still consider better camera hardware to improve night quality.
Many, many thanks for this great reply!! If you have a BuyMeACoffee link, let me know!
Awesome!
The 5442 series by Dahua are the current night champions if you are looking to upgrade. You have enough light there that I think these would rock in that location!
The 5442 series by Dahua are the current night champions if you are looking to upgrade. You have enough light there that I think these would rock in that location!
I see no reason why you could not upgrade the current ones to Dahua 5442 models, either turrets or bullets. Going for the varifocal ones would allow you to get the most proper FOV in each position. Lowering the mount point will help with getting a better face shot and could potentially help with the issue of the lights wiping out the shot.
As others have stated, if you do not work the crap out of the settings, even nice cams like these can give sub-par results.
Here is a view from a T5442 at night. Notice that there is no flare from any of the lighting, which are quite bright. Spots are 1750 lumens at 5000k and the coach lights are dual 1000 lumens 5000k bulbs.
As others have stated, if you do not work the crap out of the settings, even nice cams like these can give sub-par results.
Here is a view from a T5442 at night. Notice that there is no flare from any of the lighting, which are quite bright. Spots are 1750 lumens at 5000k and the coach lights are dual 1000 lumens 5000k bulbs.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
The driveway camera, you need to position the field of view so that flood light or whatever on the left is not shining on the camera it's causing lens glare and it also affecting the exposure. Your second picture where you're in the entryway to your front door use SSA or DLC during the daytime don't worry about seeing outside of that entryway. but you're interested in seeing what's inside the entry. First mistake lots of people do is trying to cover too much with too few cameras., If you're trying to cover the street with your driveway camera as well as your truck you're trying to do too much you need a camera for each instance. Always test the location with a 2x4x 8-ft, rocks and a 5 gallon bucket for a temporary test stand and test for minimum of 24 hours to see if there's any problems arise before you do a permanent mount. If you want to get face IDs don't Mount cameras any higher than 8 ft, 7 ft is better.Thanks for the replies. I wasn't clear about why I'm so "blah" about the situation. Here are some better captures at night that look terrible.
View attachment 92189
The lights get blown out at night, which may be a problem for all cameras, I guess. The front door struggles in daylight, resulting in very poor video of people. The driveway camera needs to be cleaned, I know, but it still doesn't look good at night.
Are there any cameras that would do better with HDR? Any thoughts?
Thank you for this. That picture is perfect... camera height and plenty of light.
Is this the right camera?
Looking at some of the better photos on the forum, I am sure you're right about my cameras being in bad spots.
Here are where my front cameras are. The ceiling is 10 feet high. I think I'll move the driveway camera to a place where the light isn't in frame. But the doorway is a tricky one. Maybe I can place the camera facing the door, which would capture people as they leave.
Thoughts?
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Flintstone61
Known around here
Yes that is the one I am talking about.
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Take a gander at this thread. My front door looks much like yours.
Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views
A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...
Take a gander at this thread. My front door looks much like yours.
Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views
A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...ipcamtalk.com
Holy Smokes! Looks like I've found the Alpha Male on the board. Haha!
Our houses are similar, yeah. I'm in the Sugar Land area. I'm thinking about moving the camera from the left to the circle on the right. Or maybe just add a second one? If I add more than 4 cameras I'll need a new PoE switch (mine maxes out at 4). Ugh. I can't get into that false window above the garage.
I just ordered two T5442's for my upgrade. The goal is to monitor the driveway activity and street traffic. My neighborhood is new so there's lots of home builder and contractor traffic.
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Use the new one IPC-T5442T-ZE or IPC-T5442TM-AS if you can figure out the lens you want.
Thanks! I prefer the flexibility of varifocal. I ordered two IPC-T5442T-ZE through Amazon.
Nice house.
That cam on the left is kind of high up and the new position you show is high also. Most here will say not to mount a cam more than 7-8 feet high. But to me it all depends on what you want from that cam. If you are trying to get a face ID on someone at your truck, can you do that now? Most perps will not stop moving and look up to your cam so that you can get that face shot. Many times they wear a cap or hoodie and are looking down so a high mounted cam gets a good shot of the top of the head but not the face. Walk it yourself and see what you get for a shot. You may not have much of an option for lowering, unless you are willing to mount on the brick. I have seen others that did that since they could access through the sheetrock in the garage without too much trouble. You do have an advantage if they are still building in your hood. If you can find one of your model that is not yet sheet-rocked, you can see the framing in that area to get some ideas. I wish I had taken pics of my model before it was covered. Before you do any mounting and running wires, test each location using a test rig as described in the Cliff Notes. I did not use a bucket, I just attached the 2x4 to a step ladder with wood clamps.
Angle is everything. See the diagram below.
The national average height of perps in the US is 5.5 feet. But since you live in TX it is a little higher so that will work in your favor. Ideally you want the cam to be a face level, too high and you get the top of the head, too low and all you get is chin. But of course if the perp is far enough away, the angle is lower and you get a better chance of a good face hit.
I have two cams covering the driveway for face ID and one cam in the window over the garage for overview. I don't have the second garage door like you and your driveway may slope more than mine. From the pic below, you can see the two cams are at about 7 feet but are angled in a crossing pattern. This allows for each cams FOV to be further down that diagram and zoomed in, which gets a fairly good face shot.
This was a test from a 5442 6mm turret. Originally I had a 5231 varifocal turret in that position. Below is the night shot of a perp in the driveway from that cam. I have since replaced it with that 5442 6mm.
The first shot was posted to the Constable's FB page and the guy was ID'd. When I showed the second one to the deputy, he said, "Yeah, I know that guy". Here is a view from the crossing cam, a 5432 varifocal.
Realize that you will ultimately have more cams than four. The @sebastiantombs rule of thumb is that cams multiply like rabbits.