IPC-Color4M-TL

[justinneed]

I see this camera with really good pricing - 4MP, 1/1.8" sensor for less than $100. The main difference I see between this and the pricier model, is the smart motion detection (SMD+ vs SMD 4.0). Is SMD 4.0 worth the extra $50-60?

There is also this:

• Outputs max. 4 MP (2688 × 1520) @20 fps, and supports 2560×1440 (2560 × 1440) @25/30 fps.

Which makes it obvious other corners were taken with this camera, since the other Dahua 4MP 1/1.8 cameras do full 4MP at 25/30 fps.

The main issue for me is the lack of 6mm lens, since I was looking at these primarily for hallway cameras. There is a location that doesn't require that, but I'd still like to setup motion based recording on Blue Iris.

Is there is a significant real world difference for the newer and "better" smart motion detection or is this is not worth the extra cost for the upgraded model?

Am I missing some other tradeoffs here like worse weatherproofing or durability?

 

[Revo2Maxx]

So one might ask does it really matter? The answer is yes.. Even if you are not using SMD as most here say they are IVS only.. I use IVS and a backup with SMD without enabling it even.. Different story so many say NA but in reality SMD 4.0 will help with IVS even to keep less cats and dogs or moving signs and even mail boxes can be detected at times as child.. So with IVS using the same Ai engine as SMD 4.0 the updated version is said to have even fewer false alerts.. On one of my cameras I do get some cats and dogs as humans at the right time mostly night time.. If you are using a older SMD and IVS tripwires and you get little to no false alerts now.. Then saving some extra cash for a steak dinner or movie night out is great.. One last thing if I remember right 4.0 also has a longer distance for detection if that is needed.. Then you will want the better SMD.. Really up to you.

 

[steve1225]

this cam is from very low line (2449).
it have very low spec SOC, which don't have power to support sensor full resolution - it does only 20fps.. to have full fps you must decrease resolution..

From spec sheet:
Main stream: 2688 × 1520@(1–20 fps)/2560 × 1440@(1–25/30 fps)

it have only white LED's and no speaker/siren/police lights.
Also AI is low power.. SMD / IVS performance will be lower than on higher lines...
chassis is from plastic, no metal..

higher brother (TIOC-PRO 3449-PRO / Color-4M-T) have both IR and white, white can be activated by motion and have full active deterrence features and AI/SOC performance is better..

 

[bigredfish]

I see this camera with really good pricing - 4MP, 1/1.8" sensor for less than $100. The main difference I see between this and the pricier model, is the smart motion detection (SMD+ vs SMD 4.0). Is SMD 4.0 worth the extra $50-60?

There is also this:

• Outputs max. 4 MP (2688 × 1520) @20 fps, and supports 2560×1440 (2560 × 1440) @25/30 fps.

Which makes it obvious other corners were taken with this camera, since the other Dahua 4MP 1/1.8 cameras do full 4MP at 25/30 fps.

The main issue for me is the lack of 6mm lens, since I was looking at these primarily for hallway cameras. There is a location that doesn't require that, but I'd still like to setup motion based recording on Blue Iris.

Is there is a significant real world difference for the newer and "better" smart motion detection or is this is not worth the extra cost for the upgraded model?

Am I missing some other tradeoffs here like worse weatherproofing or durability?

No imho

I have maybe 60-70 cameras I have installed and managed at 5 different locations, I dont have SMD enabled on a single one of them.
IVS and other features AI are far superior with far fewer false alerts.

 

[steve1225]

No imho

I have maybe 60-70 cameras I have installed and managed at 5 different locations, I dont have SMD enabled on a single one of them.
IVS and other features AI are far superior with far fewer false alerts.

SMD designation / versions tells how good AI models are in specific camera...
if camera can do only SMD+ it means have very low powered AI accelerator which can do only smallest (most distilled) AI models...

the same AI model used for SMD is used for IVS. Simply IVS just adds extra conditions to SMD - like object size and line crossing/intrusion.
but base AI model for human/vehicle filtering is the same for both SMD and IVS...

 

[bigredfish]

Interesting.

 

[steve1225]

Interesting.

more interesting is the same AI models used for detecting humans / vehicles can be used:

• for AI codec - to increase compression quality inside/around humans/vehicles (at a cost of background),
• for AcuPick 1.0 - to detect and report people/cars (even static ones) to NVR, which will analyze their image (and create 3d models on that),
• for small Video Meta Data on 5xx2-S3/7xx2-X - also to detect human/cars (without crossing any IVS policy) + here are extra AI models to describe them by attributes..

Modern CCTV cams (and NVRs) are limited by power / specification of AI accelerators, which are built-in into SOCs.
Those AI accelerators are not so powerful (0.25 TOPs in cheapest cams to 4-8 TOPs in power full ones) and they draw under 1w of power.
For comparison top-end nVidia RTX 4090 video card can do 1300 TOPs and it can take 600W of power...

SO each AI models used in cctv cams are very optimized / distilled to small size / power of AI accelerator and each AI model are reused to many camera features at once..

 

[justinneed]

this cam is from very low line (2449).
it have very low spec SOC, which don't have power to support sensor full resolution - it does only 20fps.. to have full fps you must decrease resolution..

From spec sheet:
Main stream: 2688 × 1520@(1–20 fps)/2560 × 1440@(1–25/30 fps)

it have only white LED's and no speaker/siren/police lights.
Also AI is low power.. SMD / IVS performance will be lower than on higher lines...
chassis is from plastic, no metal..

higher brother (TIOC-PRO 3449-PRO / Color-4M-T) have both IR and white, white can be activated by motion and have full active deterrence features and AI/SOC performance is better..

Thank you for the explanation. EmpireTech also sells the IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 1/1.8" and IPC-T549M-ALED-S3, which are the same price as the Color-4M-T, but they both come with SMD 3.0. One has the warm light, the other doesn't.

I guess maybe I can elaborate on what the use case is. I'm looking for cameras for a motel/motor inn (exterior corridors) in Arizona. It gets very hot here so something that can withstand the heat is necessary. We have old BNC cameras that have lasted a long time. I don't want to buy poor quality cameras and be forced to replace them in 1-2 years. Low quality cameras don't last long in the heat, especially the overview cameras on the roof that hit direct sunlight.

For the most part, I can't see speaker/siren/police light being necessary for this use case. Even the illumination lights might not be necessary because certain areas, like the hallways are well lit. Only a power outage or broken light would make the white LEDs necessary. Most, if not all areas will be 24/7 recording. The best thing about motion detection would be getting alerts or logs that users can use to track incidents, rather than being alerted constantly. Say if there is a person breaking into cars, we can see from logs when there was activity in the area this was reported and focus on that time range, instead of fast forwarding through hours of footage. And if it becomes a frequent occurrence, owners can turn on alerts for overnight activity. In some cases, 24/7 alerting wouldn't make sense like say the corridors because guests will be going in and out of their rooms at random hours of the day. It would not make sense for the owner or front desk to be alerted that someone is detected in the outdoor hallway at 4 PM because it's probably a guest entering/exiting their room to go to their car. But it would still be helpful to have logs kept.

The plan is to place 4 MP 1/1.8" turret style cameras throughout the hallways, 4 MP 1/1.8" bullet style cameras facing pool area and lobby/front desk. For the 3 roof cameras that face the parking lot, this is TBD. I think the IPC-Color4K-X 8MP 1/1.2" would be worth the money since they are a further distance from target (parking lot) and having higher resolution would help with license plate/person detection. I was hoping the 4 MP IPC-Color4M-TL/TX would be alright for my use because it would allow me to spend more on the roof cameras, but now I'm concerned trying to save $500-600 could bite me later.

 

[bigredfish]

AI/IVS IS motion detection and will do exactly what you are describing. Its just BETTER than old fashioned MD or SMD with fewer false alerts on your timeline/logs

If you indeed have as much light as you think you do, the lower end TL will be fine. At least it has IVS and a 1/1.8" sensor. But know that it takes much more light than you think to get non blurry images in low light, even indoor hallways .

You need to think about distances to target to decide which model camera, amount of optical zoom that's required for each location.

The IPC-Color4K-X 8MP 1/1.2" or any normal lens camera wont likely be able to read license plates from the roof. IF you have enough outside light (a LOT) then it will make a fine Overview camera. Note that camera doesnt have nor can't see IR, so its color all the time and nighttime color requires a shit ton of white light

For license plate reading you'll need to identify a choke point where most cars enter/exit and have a camera with enough zoom (model dependent on distance) to zoom into an area not much bigger than the vehicle. At night, you will likely need to run IR (again absent stadium style lighting) and all you will see is the license plate reflecting the IR

Example at 100-120ft with a 5241 Z-12 60mm lens.
Your 4K choice would be lucky to get 15-25ft and has no IR as mentioned

 

[bigredfish]

PS- the “speaker/siren/police light” on the TIOC-PRO 3449-PRO / Color-4M-T are optional and can be turned off.

The reason for the recommendation is it’s great low light image

 

[steve1225]

Thank you for the explanation. EmpireTech also sells the IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 1/1.8" and IPC-T549M-ALED-S3, which are the same price as the Color-4M-T, but they both come with SMD 3.0. One has the warm light, the other doesn't.

I guess maybe I can elaborate on what the use case is. I'm looking for cameras for a motel/motor inn (exterior corridors) in Arizona. It gets very hot here so something that can withstand the heat is necessary. We have old BNC cameras that have lasted a long time. I don't want to buy poor quality cameras and be forced to replace them in 1-2 years. Low quality cameras don't last long in the heat, especially the overview cameras on the roof that hit direct sunlight.

For the most part, I can't see speaker/siren/police light being necessary for this use case. Even the illumination lights might not be necessary because certain areas, like the hallways are well lit. Only a power outage or broken light would make the white LEDs necessary. Most, if not all areas will be 24/7 recording. The best thing about motion detection would be getting alerts or logs that users can use to track incidents, rather than being alerted constantly. Say if there is a person breaking into cars, we can see from logs when there was activity in the area this was reported and focus on that time range, instead of fast forwarding through hours of footage. And if it becomes a frequent occurrence, owners can turn on alerts for overnight activity. In some cases, 24/7 alerting wouldn't make sense like say the corridors because guests will be going in and out of their rooms at random hours of the day. It would not make sense for the owner or front desk to be alerted that someone is detected in the outdoor hallway at 4 PM because it's probably a guest entering/exiting their room to go to their car. But it would still be helpful to have logs kept.

The plan is to place 4 MP 1/1.8" turret style cameras throughout the hallways, 4 MP 1/1.8" bullet style cameras facing pool area and lobby/front desk. For the 3 roof cameras that face the parking lot, this is TBD. I think the IPC-Color4K-X 8MP 1/1.2" would be worth the money since they are a further distance from target (parking lot) and having higher resolution would help with license plate/person detection. I was hoping the 4 MP IPC-Color4M-TL/TX would be alright for my use because it would allow me to spend more on the roof cameras, but now I'm concerned trying to save $500-600 could bite me later.

Color4K is a toy with a lots of problems.. And it's old model..

You should look at TIOC-PRO and 54IR cams...

TIOC-PRO have better color performance at night, is dual light (IR + white) but for now is only available in fixed lens config (2.8 and 3.6mm).. in a few weeks there should be varifocal (0.5-2x optical zoom) available..

54IR is little worse at night, is only IR, but have many different configs - you can buy fixed lens, normal ZE/ZHE varifocal (optical zoom like 0.5 to 2x in iPhone) and tele photo Z4E varifocal (optical zoom like 2x to 6x)..

varifocals allows to zoom-in image to have much better face/car details at a cost of narrower view..

54IR have much more powerful AI options.. there is SMD and IVS, but there is also full AcuPick 2.0 (TIOC-PRO have only 1.0) and Video Meta Data...
it allows to find people/car by attributes (young man in white t-shirt, older women in red skirt, white suv from toyota)

Here a few screenshots what Video Meta Data on 54IR-Z4E (with tele photo zoom) and proper Dahua 5xxx-EI NVR can do, when hang on soffit under roof from some distance.
look that there are attributes for each person / vehicle...

Also AcuPick allows to click on any human / vehicle image and ask NVR to show all footage from all AcuPick cameras where similar looking humans / vehicles are recorded..

 

[justinneed]

Color4K is a toy with a lots of problems.. And it's old model..

You should look at TIOC-PRO and 54IR cams...

TIOC-PRO have better color performance at night, is dual light (IR + white) but for now is only available in fixed lens config (2.8 and 3.6mm).. in a few weeks there should be varifocal (0.5-2x optical zoom) available..

54IR is little worse at night, is only IR, but have many different configs - you can buy fixed lens, normal ZE/ZHE varifocal (optical zoom like 0.5 to 2x in iPhone) and tele photo Z4E varifocal (optical zoom like 2x to 6x)..

varifocals allows to zoom-in image to have much better face/car details at a cost of narrower view..

54IR have much more powerful AI options.. there is SMD and IVS, but there is also full AcuPick 2.0 (TIOC-PRO have only 1.0) and Video Meta Data...
it allows to find people/car by attributes (young man in white t-shirt, older women in red skirt, white suv from toyota)

Here a few screenshots what Video Meta Data on 54IR-Z4E (with tele photo zoom) and proper Dahua 5xxx-EI NVR can do, when hang on soffit under roof from some distance.
look that there are attributes for each person / vehicle...

Also AcuPick allows to click on any human / vehicle image and ask NVR to show all footage from all AcuPick cameras where similar looking humans / vehicles are recorded..


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For TIOC-PRO series, are there models sold by EmpireTech/Andy that are 4MP 1/1.8"? I can only find PTZ models and one turret style (8 MP) with smaller sensor sizes.

For 54IR, I see this one I linked earlier:

EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Fixed-focal Turret Netwo

4MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor Built-in IR LED, Max. illumination distance is 50 m Deep learning algorithm Supports max. 512 GB Micro SD card Built-in MIC IP67 protection SMD 3.0

empiretech01.com

Is that the one you're recommending?

I have another question. I recently learned about corridor mode and how some people will turn the turret style cameras at a sideway angle (say a 2.8 or 3.6mm lens) and enable corridor mode on their NVR/Blue Iris. Is this a better option than purchasing a 6mm lens? I don't want to spend extra money on varifocal lens in hallway areas.

 

[bigredfish]

This is the TIOC Pro

EmpireTech IPC-Color4M-T 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP Smart Dual Light Active Deter

4MP 1/1.8" CMOS Built-in multi-core light, Max. IR distance is 30 m, Max. warm light distance is 30 m Intelligent monitoring: Intrusion, Tripwire Supports max. 512 G Micro SD card Built-in dual Mic Support two-way talk IP67 protection Sound and light alarm (red and blue lights) SMD 4.0

empiretech01.com

As I originally suggested, it would be good for your inside corridors. 3.6mm model