Initial review of the DS-2CD2347G2-L(U) ColorVu 2.0 IP camera.

ljw2k

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Not sure this is correct or anything to do with the "C" other than that C: C= Colour or C means it's a colour ( Or Day & Night not monochrome) ?


2021-04-05 14_34_57-Network Camera V5.5.160 Release Note --G3.pdf and 6 more pages - Personal ...jpg
 
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venturis

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I am having some issues configuring my 2CD2347G2-LU and hoping someone can lend some advice.

Trying to replace an old 2CD2335FWD-I which is running in "Portrait" mode (ie. 90degree rotated). I have Line Crossing and Intrusion Detection configured.

When bench testing the 2CD2347G2 Gen2 ColourVU I found that the only way to get the "Rotate" option under the Image Settings menu was to set the "VCA Resource -> Monitoring".

Once the VCA resource is set to monitoring, the Rotate option becomes available in "Image" settings BUT I completely lose all Smart Events except for "Scene Change Detection".

There is no message warning that setting VCA resource to Monitoring will result in loss of Smart Event functionality.

I would have thought a current generation camera should be able to do at least as much as a 3-4 year old Hikvision camera.

I've updated to firmware 5.5.160 which I'm wondering is the issue? Before rolling back, I was wondering if anyone has tried running in portrait mode and was able to retain Smart Events?

EDIT: It looks like the issue is with firmware 5.5.160.

On firmware 5.5.134 there are only two options under VCA Resources which are "Face Detection", "Smart Events".

On firmware 5.5.160 there are actually three options under VCA Resources which are "Face Detection", "Smart Events" and "Monitoring"

When "Monitoring" is selected in VCA Resources on firmware 5.5.160 it disables all smart events except for Scene Change Detection but it is also the only way to enable the Rotate function in the Image settings.

On firmware 5.5.134 I am able to rotate the image and retain all the smart event functionality.

Seems that the firmware for the G3 series cameras still has a long way to go.
 
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pozzello

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good, info. I'm sure that will save others some head-scratching. Depending on your NVR solution, you may be able to rotate the image there, for example BI can do that (but of course, one must disable camera overlays or live with them sideways)
 

venturis

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Here is the TLDR: Got a new 2CD2347G2-LU and not very happy with the performance! Maybe I'm expecting too much of a $AU250 camera?


I wanted to give some feedback on my impression of my first 2CD2347G2 Gen2 ColourVu and for that matter the first ColorVu I've ever used.

From the outset I'm going to say that I am very much underwhelmed by the performance of this camera. The night imagery, which was the primary reason for the purchase, is poor at best in the application I had intended.

Background. I have a Hikvision 2CD2335FWD-I 4mm cam that has been in service for around 2-3 years and is covering an access gate to a property which is in a very dark area with very little artificial light. There is a street light at the front of the property but it casts very little light back toward the access gate and in any event the majority for the street light illumination is blocked by a small tree.

The 2CD2335FWD-I has performed well in this location and produces reasonably good night time images even without IR illumination Using Smart Events I am able to trigger external lights whenever an object comes into the field of view using a combination of line crossing and intrusion detection.

This works well since the imagery from the 2CD2335FWD-I is good enough without any artificial illumination to accurately detect people or objects moving into the field of view at which point the alarm would trigger artificial lighting which provides all the light needed to flood the scene.

On a moonless night the image produced is somewhat grainy but still good enough definition to activate the security lights. When overcast and/or a moonlit night the imagery is actually quite impressive.

The 2CD2335FWD-I is quoted as 0.008Lux at F1.6 and was marketed as an Ultra Low Light camera.

Already having tested and used a couple of 2CD2386G2 Gen2 Acusense 8MP cams I had a good idea of how they performed at night. Quoted as 0.005Lux at F1.2 I am extremely impressed with this camera's night performance. In fact with only a dim street light for illumination, it never switches to B&W mode. It is always produces a full colour image at night regardless of conditions.

Using the 8MP Gen 2 as baseline and being drawn to specs such as 0.0005lux @ F1.0 I started to think the Gen2 ColourVu would be a good upgrade.

Based on information available elsewhere the Gen2 ColourVu spec of 0.0005lux at F1.0 should produce a clear image in Full to Poor starlight. At least that was my understanding.

After receiving the 2CD2347G2 and bench testing I first came across the issue that I posted earlier about the loss of Smart Events when "Rotate" mode is enabled. This turned out to be an issue caused by firmware 5.5.150 and 5.5.160 but not present in 5.5.134. This meant that I was stuck at 5.5.134 unless Hikvision decide to resolve the issue but the Australian distributor will not officially support any firmware release after 5.5.134.

The interesting part is that the release notes for the G5 firmware which shows a comparison between the G2 and the G2(c) indicates that the "Monitoring" mode is only available on Gen2 8MP models which seems to contradict my experience where "Monitoring" mode shows up in the menus on the ColorVu Gen2 4MP when firmware 5.5.160 was installed.

Monitoring Mode.jpg

On first use I switched the camera to portrait (Image -> Rotate) and noted a significant amount of "barrel" distortion in the image. I was extremely surprised since I only usually see that degree of barrel distortion on cams fitted with 2.8mm lenses. I double checked that I'd not been sent the wrong camera but it was a 4mm lens. I believe the distortion is accentuated in portrait mode. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since a large 1/1.8" sensor combined with a relatively small lens is going to be stretching the image at the extremities of the image sensor.

On the image itself. I have a range of cameras ranging from 3MP up to 8MP and have been spoilt by the crisp imagery produced by the 8MP cameras because I immediately noticed the lack of definition in 4MP Gen2 ColorVu picture. I turned up the bit rate to 8192, set the encoding to H.265+ and frame rate at 25FPS but could not find a set of image parameters that gave me a satisfying image.

Not deterred I went about testing the camera at night in the approximate location where it would finally be installed. Unfortunately, there is where I was completely gutted when I could barely make out any detail in scene.

Whilst the camera was producing a colour image, there was no detail and lacked any definition in the shadows. The shutter speed as 1/25sec as opposed to the default of 1/12th sec which I felt was too slow a shutter speed and I wanted an apple for apples comparison with my 2CD2335FWD-I which has been running at 1/25th sec shutter speed.

I am possibly expecting too much from this camera but having read numerous reviews and after looking at user sample images on this forum and some vendor sites I believed that I would be able to obtain full colour, almost daytime like images from this camera but clearly the marketing spin does not carry over to reality.

Fortunately, I've only invested in the one camera for bench testing which I think I will be returning to the supplier because it does not live up to expectations.
 
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ljw2k

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I am very happy with my 2cd2347G2-LU and is far the best camera at night for my location. I think you have made the wrong choice of camera for that location & conditions you have which is little to no light. I would not put a full colour camera somewhere with no light but would recommend a 5442 which would have worked much better for you. Also 1/25th is way to slow shutter you need to get some external lighting up either on motion of permanent as Casper will always be your friend on the 1/25 scale.
 

k110

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You can enable WDR to get more clarity in the shadow areas. You say you have less detail, I think you have more detail now, look at the floor tiles, much more detail besides the 2335 which has a lot of noise in the picture, loosing detail.
 

venturis

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I'm not going to argue with the fact that the camera does not appear to be the best choice on this occasion. The proof is there in the pictures. The question is then, if a ColourVu 2.0 camera is not the best choice then what is? Of course could jump up to a professional/commercial series box camera and it would blow the 2CD2347G2 away in performance but it comes at a much higher price.

I'm not ready to make the switch to Dahua but checking out the specs of the 5442 they actually look like they are much more realistic than those quoted by Hivksion for the same size sensor.

As I mentioned light is not the issue since the camera is configured to trigger external lights when motion is detected in the scene. My point was simply that the camera may not be living up to the marketing hype created by Hivksion.

One of my gripes is that its impossible to select cameras based solely on vendor specs. In this case Hikvision is quoting lux levels well below the thresholds that the camera can operate in a way that still makes it useful.

I've found that the only way to know how a cam really performs in reality is to buy one and try it out.

By default the 2CD2347G2 cameras ship with a 1/12th sec shutter speed which as you've already pointed out is far too slow. At 1/12th shutter speed all anyone will see is ghosts in night scenes.

Those ridiculously low lux levels quoted by Hikvison are only achievable if the settings are dialed down to the point where the camera will produce a very nice looking static image but worthless when it comes to capturing moving objects in video. Thats great for showing a prospective customer but it's very misleading.

I am not knocking anyone who finds this camera good value and meets their requirements.

I genuinely think my 8MP Gen2 Acusense is a great camera and produces great night imagery out of the box. Something I'd not expected. When the shutter speed is set around the 1/12th to 1/25th range it can produce a night time image that is almost as good as the ColourVu Gen2 IMHO.

Maybe more time and testing is needed to see if I can drag a bit more performance out of this camera.

EDIT: Something I haven't yet tried is using the integrated white light for illumination. It was not my preferred option since they tend to attract insects at night but it appears can dial the intensity right down.
 
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k110

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I'm not sure what's wrong but I've tested a G2 colorvu (8MP) at a site where there was no lighting, nothing, pointed away from any street, only partial moon lighting and the picture was day like, it was crazy. Offcourse standard 1/12 but I've set it to 1/25 and still a daytime full color image with a lot of detail. Customer was also really blown away, I've installed 2 of them at that customer. He didn't need it for person identification, only watching the scene (loading dock with all lights off) for activity and the result was a lot better then your picture, and there wasn't even ANY light so I'm not sure what you're missing.
 

venturis

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I'm not sure what's wrong but I've tested a G2 colorvu (8MP) at a site where there was no lighting, nothing, pointed away from any street, only partial moon lighting and the picture was day like, it was crazy. Offcourse standard 1/12 but I've set it to 1/25 and still a daytime full color image with a lot of detail. Customer was also really blown away, I've installed 2 of them at that customer. He didn't need it for person identification, only watching the scene (loading dock with all lights off) for activity and the result was a lot better then your picture, and there wasn't even ANY light so I'm not sure what you're missing.
I might be wrong but the Gen2 ColorVu 8MP camera is a box camera? Its a different beast but yes, from what I've seen in a number of reviews it produces outstanding night images. Maybe that's where I should be looking. Its just that I really like the Turret format.
 

k110

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Yes the 8MP is a bullet camera, I did not yet try the 4MP turret one (or 4MP bullet one for that matter) so not sure what the difference is but I would assume that the full colour day/night image is the same since specs give the same lux but they do use a different sensor so maybe..
 

wittaj

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As others have said, all cameras need light regardless of what any marketing claims. I can make a crap camera look like noon at midnight, but then motion is a blur. But with any light at all, this camera does really well.

Since you have said person identification isn't needed and running a slow shutter, why not go with auto to lighten up the image?

With that said, I would think the camera would perform better than what you are showing when compared to another camera...although that other camera appears to have IR going....
 

venturis

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As others have said, all cameras need light regardless of what any marketing claims. I can make a crap camera look like noon at midnight, but then motion is a blur. But with any light at all, this camera does really well.

I agree that sounds like a very sensible conclusion but, reading the Hikvision datasheets it states that the cam produces full colour image in any light conditions and uses the supplemental "white light" leds where no light is present.

Since you have said person identification isn't needed and running a slow shutter, why not go with auto to lighten up the image?
I agree that needing some light sounds like a very sensible conclusion but, reading the Hikvision sales blurb it states (or implies) that the cam produces full colour image in any light conditions and uses the supplemental "white light" leds where no light is present.

Auto what? Auto shutter speed? There is no such setting in this camera. Do you mean auto WDR? I've tested WDR but shutter speed are mutually exclusive. Settings below 1/25th sec shutter speed need WDR to be disabled.

With that said, I would think the camera would perform better than what you are showing when compared to another camera...although that other camera appears to have IR going....
The 2CD2335FWD-I in the comparison image is running under identical conditions to the 2CD2347G2-LU. No IR illumination in either case. That was the reason for showing a side by side comparison of two cameras, several generations of technology difference.

Something that puzzles me is why no-one seems to have any issue with the camera specs being quoted by Hikvision. Particularly the reference to 0.0005Lux at F1.0

A light level of 0.0005 lux is in the realms of starlight only. The Dahua camera quoted earlier (5442) as an alternative uses a similarly sized 1/1.8" sensor but quotes 0.001Lux at F1.6. What sort of magic is Hikvision using to get 0.0005 lux? Low shutter speed is a big contributor for getting a night time image but as we all know it comes with the penalty of ghosting.

If a vendor quotes 0.0005lux in its specs, its reasonable to conclude that it means the image produced at 0.0005lux light level is sufficient for person identification. That's what the cams are primarily for.

In my case, its not accurate to say there is no light. There is light, just not very much. There is a street light directly at the front of the property but a small tree effectively blocks the light from reaching the access gate. There are also street lights towards the top of the image but some distance away. The gate is visible to the naked eye when viewed from the camera vantage point.

Also, in this particular example, the two images above were taken on a completely moonless night. Some moonlight would make a considerable difference but I wanted to see how the cam performs under the most adverse conditions.

My issue aside, I wanted to prompt some discussion about vendors' claimed performance specifications and whether they live up to the claims in real life. At least I don't think so but that's not to say that if you buy this camera and like the results that it's not a winner.

I'd like to see some standardized testing procedures for cameras that use a set of predetermined tests to establish a camera's true performance rather than rely on vendor specs or just putting two cameras side by side as I have done. This way when users come to this site they can get real understanding of how a camera should perform in an application before committing to buy.
 

ljw2k

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It's obvious that your not happy with it so the simple thing to do is return it. I don't know of a single person or member here who is unhappy with this camera and I have a few myself and can say it is the best camera for Day & Night I have owned so far and Iv'e owned a few :) but not as many as Parley :)
 

wittaj

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Here is the actual spec:

Color: 0.0005 Lux @ (F1.0, AGC ON), B/W: 0 Lux with white light

You see it makes no mention of shutter speed - so the spec is probably stated at the slowest shutter speed possible and can be obtained with an auto shutter or slow shutter setting. Also says AGC on, which is probably gain, so they crank the gain up a lot.....again I can make a crap camera look like noon at midnight with an auto shutter speed and gain at 100....
 

The Automation Guy

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If a vendor quotes 0.0005lux in its specs, its reasonable to conclude that it means the image produced at 0.0005lux light level is sufficient for person identification. That's what the cams are primarily for.
Honestly I don't know what that statistic really means, but clearly it doesn't mean it is a level that will be sufficient for personal identification. It doesn't mean that for any camera or manufacturer.
 

ljw2k

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Did you try to enable the LED's on the camera as this makes a MASSIVE difference in very low light. I do have solar lights but not much spread of light TBH but with the Camera's Built in LED's a different story.
Settings are the same on both pictures just enabled the LED to 100%

Yard4k.20210418_003122621.jpgYard4k.20210418_003354173.jpg
 

venturis

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Did you try to enable the LED's on the camera as this makes a MASSIVE difference in very low light. I do have solar lights but not much spread of light TBH but with the Camera's Built in LED's a different story.
Settings are the same on both pictures just enabled the LED to 100%
I'm still trying various settings to find something that I think I can live with.

Setting the exposure to 1/12th secs made a big difference to the image. Its how the camera ships as default but its too low to be useful in practice because it will cause ghosting.

The 1/12th exposure gives me a clear enough image from which to use the smart events to trigger the external lighting but it take a second or two for the camera to readjust once the external lighting comes on.

I've also tried switching on the internal LED's but keeping them as low as reasonable practical since I don't what to attract insects (which will set off the smart events) and also not wanting to attract attention to the camera. Even at 20% intensity the LED's are quite noticeable but do provide enough additional light to run at 1/25th exposure albeit the image is quite murky.
 
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ljw2k

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I always use 1/100th Exposure @night or more if I can and daytime I use 1/2000th sec. The level you are at at the moment is way too high you need to mount the camera @ base level around 8ft.
I also notice that big white wall washing your picture out especially when the internal LED is set to 20%.

I found with the hikvision it handles the exposure better than any other camera I have in a way of less motion blur.
 

wittaj

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What about adding some additional landscaping lighting - this cam is awesome and with minimal light will do great.
 

EMPIRETECANDY

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Old story. Full color with perfect pics always at good light place. Deep dark place IR ones still work better at low light places, so you think the old models are better than the new , full color LED at low light place in the night at summer will bring lots of bugs, not everyone like the led always on at remote and silent places.
Full color fans and traditional IR fans they both right based on their own situation.
They are both good cams.
 
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