I take issue with this page about Blue Iris hardware:

[AveryFreeman]

Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

I came across this when looking for compatible hardware for Blue Iris - was actually looking for an HCL (list of compatible NVRs, DVRs, cameras, switches, etc.)

But the information is so glaringly omissive I have to say something about it -

Being a computer + network tech, how can someone recommend hardware for security systems and not mention server-grade hardware?

There are a number of Supermicro, Dell, HPE, etc. server manufacturers that make servers with multi-bay hot swap hard drive arrays, which is a huge consideration when storing data. Hard drives fail, wouldn't one want to use a RAID 1 or RAID 10 array, etc. to ensure the data is mirrored in order to protect it in the event of hard drive failure?

Same goes for power supplies - if you power supply dies, wouldn't you like to have two or three of them you can swap out while the computer is still on in order to ensure minimal downtime?

ECC is less of a consideration but is nice for data storage to ensure against flipped bits, etc. in a scenario where someone is using a copy-on-write file system like ZFS or BTRFS. I personally use ZFS for my security camera recording array, which is not only more convenient but light-years ahead of most conventional RAID storage.

Lastly, build quality - desktop systems use cheaper components which may fail faster when being used 24/7 for recording, and are comparatively more sparse on fans to ensure quieter systems that are more susceptible to overheating.

Just look at:

SuperServer® | Super Micro Computer, Inc.
https://www.hpe.com/us/en/servers/entry-level.html
Dell PowerEdge Servers : Small Business & Enterprise Servers | Dell United States

And if you like what you see, shop around on eBay - a ton of server hardware a few generations old can be had for next to nothing from surplus sales.

As a rule of thumb, Xeon E3 or E5 v2 or newer processors as of writing are a good power savings + performance mix. An E3 processor should be enough for recording about 20 streams (depending on FPS/resolution), if you need more streams then consider an E5, which can also be obtained in dual and quad processor configurations.

Keep in mind, it's going to be on 24/7 so the more processors the heftier your electricity bill, but an E3 processor uses no more power than your conventional desktop computer (in some cases less).

Lastly, if the computer only serves the purpose of recording security footage, consider using Windows Server or an LTSB/LTSC variant for your OS. It's more solid and free of garbage you don't need for recording video. Licenses for these can also be had extremely cheap on eBay.

 

[tangent]

• Raid isn't needed in most small scale applications
• Servers cost more
• Blue Iris often preforms better on Core i5+ systems with integrated graphics than your typical Xeon
• Servers use more power, take up more space, and produce more heat
• Enterprise desktops are generally better built than consumer desktops and are what's most often recommended.

If someone is dealing with a large system with say >32 cameras, server hardware and possibly different VMS software may start to make sense. Some of the other VMS software that's used in large scale commercial settings does work well on Xeon cpus.

 

[bp2008]

I've updated the wiki page adding some notes about server-grade CPUs and RAID. Lots of people do come from an IT background where they are used to working with such servers every day, so it is natural to think about it when planning a BI system.

But yeah, it is like @tangent said, most of the people who are drawn to Blue Iris are going to be better-served by a cheap, light weight workstation as recommended at the top of that wiki page.

 

[fenderman]

Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

I came across this when looking for compatible hardware for Blue Iris - was actually looking for an HCL (list of compatible NVRs, DVRs, cameras, switches, etc.)

But the information is so glaringly omissive I have to say something about it -

Being a computer + network tech, how can someone recommend hardware for security systems and not mention server-grade hardware?

There are a number of Supermicro, Dell, HPE, etc. server manufacturers that make servers with multi-bay hot swap hard drive arrays, which is a huge consideration when storing data. Hard drives fail, wouldn't one want to use a RAID 1 or RAID 10 array, etc. to ensure the data is mirrored in order to protect it in the event of hard drive failure?

Same goes for power supplies - if you power supply dies, wouldn't you like to have two or three of them you can swap out while the computer is still on in order to ensure minimal downtime?

ECC is less of a consideration but is nice for data storage to ensure against flipped bits, etc. in a scenario where someone is using a copy-on-write file system like ZFS or BTRFS. I personally use ZFS for my security camera recording array, which is not only more convenient but light-years ahead of most conventional RAID storage.

Lastly, build quality - desktop systems use cheaper components which may fail faster when being used 24/7 for recording, and are comparatively more sparse on fans to ensure quieter systems that are more susceptible to overheating.

Just look at:

SuperServer® | Super Micro Computer, Inc.
https://www.hpe.com/us/en/servers/entry-level.html
Dell PowerEdge Servers : Small Business & Enterprise Servers | Dell United States

And if you like what you see, shop around on eBay - a ton of server hardware a few generations old can be had for next to nothing from surplus sales.

As a rule of thumb, Xeon E3 or E5 v2 or newer processors as of writing are a good power savings + performance mix. An E3 processor should be enough for recording about 20 streams (depending on FPS/resolution), if you need more streams then consider an E5, which can also be obtained in dual and quad processor configurations.

Keep in mind, it's going to be on 24/7 so the more processors the heftier your electricity bill, but an E3 processor uses no more power than your conventional desktop computer (in some cases less).

Lastly, if the computer only serves the purpose of recording security footage, consider using Windows Server or an LTSB/LTSC variant for your OS. It's more solid and free of garbage you don't need for recording video. Licenses for these can also be had extremely cheap on eBay.

That is because you fail to realize that blue iris is a home/small business package not suitable for large scale/enterprise deployments and only a fool would use the hardware you recommend.
There is no benefit to using Xeon processors or having hot swapable drives, raid, or swapable power supplies in this application.
I have over 20 blue iris systems running 24/7 some coming up on seven years. The dell and hp business systems that are recommended have not had a hiccup.

 

[AveryFreeman]

• Raid isn't needed in most small scale applications
• Servers cost more
• Blue Iris often preforms better on Core i5+ systems with integrated graphics than your typical Xeon
• Servers use more power, take up more space, and produce more heat
• Enterprise desktops are generally better built than consumer desktops and are what's most often recommended.

If someone is dealing with a large system with say >32 cameras, server hardware and possibly different VMS software may start to make sense. Some of the other VMS software that's used in large scale commercial settings does work well on Xeon cpus.

I take issue with the statement that servers cost more. Sure, doubling up on hard drives is going to cost more, but how important are the recordings?

One could easily get energy usage down by using, say, an E3-1220Lv2 or v3 which now cost next to nothing, rely on the IPMI graphics of a Supermicro X9SCL-F for setting the machine up and then connect remotely using RDP, web or mobile client for the vast majority of necessary interaction. If you absolutely need a standard video card the NVidia 1030GT is 20w and can assist with transcoding much more efficiently than iGPU. That kind of setup would likely cost around $350 with a cheap older intel SSD for the OS/software and a couple 4TB hard drives for recording using the soft-raid for Windows built into the BIOS. Energy usage total would be <70w (my guess is avg 35-50w)

That's just how I would do it. Who knows, maybe I'm an idiot.

 

[fenderman]

Who knows, maybe I'm an idiot.

That is correct. The processors you quote are i3 equivalents .. you can buy a 3rd generation i5 system for $100. I3 for even less. It's almost as though you have never used blue iris.

 

[AveryFreeman]

That is correct. The processors you quote are i3 equivalents .. you can buy a 3rd generation i5 system for $100. I3 for even less. It's almost as though you have never used blue iris.

I used it for a while before switching to Xprotect. Edit: Maybe that's it, we're just attracted to different market segments.

 

[fenderman]

I used it for a while before switching to Xprotect.

Doubtful...or with only a few low res cameras...just terrible advice across the board.

 

[AveryFreeman]

Thank you for your support

 

[fenderman]

Thank you for your support

Anytime.

 

[tangent]

One could easily get energy usage down by using, say, an E3-1220Lv2 or v3 which now cost next to nothing, rely on the IPMI graphics of a Supermicro X9SCL-F for setting the machine up and then connect remotely using RDP, web or mobile client for the vast majority of necessary interaction. If you absolutely need a standard video card the NVidia 1030GT is 20w and can assist with transcoding much more efficiently than iGPU.

You're bragging that a 7 year old Xeon with prformance on par with an i3-3225 is cheap? Duh, it's useless
There are cheaper desktops with better processors.

As for graphics, it's very important to know what the software you're running is optimized for. Blue Iris preforms well with intel integrated graphics. I'd have to double check, but I think that's the only type of graphics card it has any hardware acceleration for.

 

[fenderman]

You're bragging that a 7 year old Xeon with prformance on par with an i3-3225 is cheap? Duh, it's useless
There are cheaper desktops with better processors.

As for graphics, it's very important to know what the software you're running is optimized for. Blue Iris preforms better with intel integrated graphics. I'd have to double check, but I think that's the only type of graphics card it has any hardware acceleration for.

There is hardware acceleration for specific Nvidia cards.

 

[AveryFreeman]

You're bragging that a 7 year old Xeon with prformance on par with an i3-3225 is cheap? Duh, it's useless
There are cheaper desktops with better processors.

As for graphics, it's very important to know what the software you're running is optimized for. Blue Iris preforms well with intel integrated graphics. I'd have to double check, but I think that's the only type of graphics card it has any hardware acceleration for.

Processors really haven't gotten any faster for the last 8-9 years. Their iGPUs have gotten considerably better, that's about it.

You're right, I'm not read-up on Blue Iris graphics support, and it's entirely plausible that my HW recommendations were ill-conceived on that basis. I'm just coming at the issue from the viewpoint of someone who prefers enterprise-centric hardware over cheap consumer options. It's also true that I left Blue Iris for a more enterprise-centric NVR software platform, so I'm not steeped in BI info as much as I would be for software I'm more familiar with.

I just think people interested in security recording overall should not just consider hard drive redundancy, but prioritize it as an important feature. I did not see anything about it in the article I was criticizing.

 

[tangent]

Don't confuse speed (GHz) with performance. Compare CPU benchmark results.
PassMark - CPU Benchmarks - List of Benchmarked CPUs

 

[fenderman]

Processors really haven't gotten any faster for the last 8-9 years. Their iGPUs have gotten considerably better, that's about it.

You're right, I'm not read-up on Blue Iris graphics support, and it's entirely plausible that my HW recommendations were ill-conceived on that basis. I'm just coming at the issue from the viewpoint of someone who prefers enterprise-centric hardware over cheap consumer options. It's also true that I left Blue Iris for a more enterprise-centric NVR software platform, so I'm not steeped in BI info as much as I would be for software I'm more familiar with.

I just think people interested in security recording overall should not just consider hard drive redundancy, but prioritize it as an important feature. I did not see anything about it in the article I was criticizing.

Hard drive redundancy on a home system is foolish. Not only should have not be prioritized it should not be a consideration. Hard drive failure is extremely rare. you have a much higher probability of your blue iris system crashing for some reason. Pop some SD cards into your cameras and you're good to go. If you're a little extra paranoid you could set up a second NVR.
And you are wrong there have been significant increases and processing power and efficiency in the last 2 generations. The biggest problem with your suggestion is that you recommend a weak i3 Xeon based processor that cost about five times what an equivalent desktop system would cost.... Not to mention the fact that would not be sufficient for most modern setups. Like I said terrible suggestion on all fronts.

 

[AveryFreeman]

Don't confuse speed (GHz) with performance. Compare CPU benchmark results.
PassMark - CPU Benchmarks - List of Benchmarked CPUs

That's true. I didn't mean clock speeds, but I was reading some opinion pieces about this very subject that seemed pretty credible. Upon reviewing how the cpumark score is calculated I admit that I most likely stand corrected. I was trying to find what I had read for reference, I think it may have been this:

Don't be fooled: Intel's new desktop CPUs aren't faster

The point of power usage was brought up and that's what made me think of that processor. To be charitable, the i3-3225 has a max TDP of 55w while the E3-1220l v2 is only 17w and it still bests the i3's cpumark score by a tiny margin.

to @fenderman - hard drives fail all the time. Calling me foolish for suggesting redundancy makes me think you're just taking issue with everything I say at this point. Who uses cameras with SD cards? It seems obvious you're just focused on an entirely different market segment, and apparently not very considerate about people's difference of opinion.

 

[SkyLake]

Who uses cameras with SD cards

Everyone... Tell me why industrial grade camera's have sd card slots. Axis as a example..

 

[fenderman]

That's true. I didn't mean clock speeds, but I was reading some opinion pieces about this very subject that seemed pretty credible. Upon reviewing how the cpumark score is calculated I admit that I most likely stand corrected. I was trying to find what I had read for reference, I think it may have been this:

Don't be fooled: Intel's new desktop CPUs aren't faster

The point of power usage was brought up and that's what made me think of that processor. To be charitable, the i3-3225 has a max TDP of 55w while the E3-1220l v2 is only 17w and it still bests the i3's cpumark score by a tiny margin.

to @fenderman - hard drives fail all the time. Calling me foolish for suggesting redundancy makes me think you're just taking issue with everything I say at this point. Who uses cameras with SD cards? It seems obvious you're just focused on an entirely different market segment, and apparently not very considerate about people's difference of opinion.

Really? U just might be using shitty drives. As noted there is a higher chance of other failure. Use a second NVR if you are paranoid.
You are clueless.
You post a 2017 article when I clearly stated last two generations, which are i8 and i9, you know nothing obviously.
Only a fool uses tdp to measure power consumption.
Skylake explained SD cards.

I take issue with a fool taking issue.