Front Door Camera Placement Question

[craywm]

Hello all,

I've been following the forum and studying reviews/wiki for a few months now while I get my system lined out. I just ordered my first IP cam (IPC-T5442T-AS) in the 2.8mm flavor assuming I'll me using it at the front door. I intend to test my other locations with this cam, and determine if i'll stick with 3.6mm or move to a VF bullet style. All cams will be wired to a Dahua NVR 5216-4k16.

Anyway, While I prepare for running my cable through existing walls, the front door cam placement has been troubling me. I have the option of placing it on the wall that the front door is mounted to, an adjacent wall, or from the ceiling soffit. The soffit is 8ft high, but there is a small overhang at the front of the porch that would obstruct the view out to the street. My thinking right now is the mount the cam from the adjacent wall at around 7ft to catch face ID/FR Door/ FR walk to road.

To add to mounting complexity, my front door has two lights on either side, which is why I'm reluctant to mount above light on front wall. My thinking is that the light will wash out faces (even with smart IR for a short period, and obstruct the view of the front door slightly. However, this placement would give me a better FOV of the front entry to the driveway and street.

I plan to build a test setup and test the locations, but I wanted to reach out to the forum members to see if maybe I;m not considering something fundamental in cam placement at front door. Can you guys give me any feedback regarding which location you'd be inclined to mount from?

Ohh and a few notes: I went with the IR version assuming I could use it in full color at night with lights on, and if lights are off, use the IR feature. I have a junction mount and wall mount that can be used for final installation the photos simulate roughly 7 ft mounting height. The large evergreen bush will likely be removed, as two of the "faux" posts on either side of the door - this will open up the view. The street and side walk are main arteries to the neighborhood, and have a high amount of foot and vehicle traffic.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[catcamstar]

Hello @craywm welcome to the forum! Good you already found the Cliff Notes and the wiki! Testbenching with buckets will give you "real life" experience in camera placement, in the meanwhile, have you discovered IPVM Camera Calculator V3 yet?

General remarks on your story and pictures:

• you drew backyard cam (to catch (through IVS) people hopping over your fence?) - this is good!
• but you didn't draw anything looking "over" your driveway? You have ample possibilities (even from high above for an overview-view), however keep in mind the next rule!
• you indeed draw your "porch" cam very high. This is sufficient to "Detect" movement (remember DORI) but Identification, even from that close, will be a "joke". Why? Because hoodies, caps and hats are often more leveraged against camera's. So you'll might spot the price tag on the cap, and that's all about it.

But again: this all depends of what your goal is: if "detection" is enough, you can "hide" up your cam in the corner, as it has its advantages too: it is well preserved from the elements (no direct sunlight, yet great for spiderwebs on the IR).

Suggestion from my side: did you think about a doorbell? Doorbells are typically put at a reasonable height, and do provide an intercom capability. And what's even better: you can 24/7 record the videostream on your NVR5216 (I am doing this btw). Which gives me not only "voice mail" and "picture capture" on the dedicated VTH device in-house, but my NVR also grabs footage of all "non-ringers" who are sneaking up on the house.

And if you're really wild, you might have a mailbox in front of the house, deploy a camera there which faces towards the house. When running away, sometimes the hoodies go off, and they never expect a cam in the mailbox.

Happy camming!
CC

 

[craywm]

Hey @catcamstar,

- the side yard cam would catch people over the fence, I'm thinking of going with the newer active deterrent model cam for this and will probably mount a little lower (from siding).
-I didn't include the full layout I'm planning for. Probably in total 6 cams to catch all angles. Added pictures to this post.
-I'm thinking of lowering the porch cam the 6.5-7 ft to get a clear view of the entry, and out to the side walk. I have a clear FOV in this direction, where the other side of the front walk is slightly obstructed my neighbors large trees. Do you think the cam at the porch could be "replaced" by solely the doorbell cam?

In this case, I would mount a cam under the soffit on the outside of the porch overhang to get front entry and side walk/road.

I will probably add a camera on either side of the garage if the FOV makes sense. Depending on the angles, the left side of the garage may be all I need since to the left of the house FOV is pretty obstructed.

I never thought about the mailbox cam. I have never seen this executed, do you know of any good reference examples?

Also, for the doorbell cam, I was initially against this due to the need to have a fully wired system. Do you know of any good Dahua POE doorbells, I cant seen to find the model you referenced the image for?

Thank you!

 

[catcamstar]

OK, your follow-up images show good coverage of these cams, well done!

Regarding your additional questions:

• a doorbell cam (even the ones from Dahua) will outperform the RINGs in the world, but don't expect FullHD quality nor "starlight" night vision. And forget about IVS and AI stuff.
• however, like the model VTO2000A picture I included in my first answer, some doorbells exist in both POE (thus requiring UTP cabling) but also in 2-wire system (in case there is already an existing (analogue) doorbell present. Search for VTO2000A-2. If you want a review of the (POE) VTO2000A, you can read it here in my personal review: [Review] VTO2000A & VTH1550CH & VTNS1060A Intercom Kit. Here was the 2018 Intercom catalogue:
  https://www.dahuasecurity.com/asset/upload/download/20180404/2018_V1_-video-intercom(36P)2018_04_1.pdf
  (there seems to be only 1 2-wire VTO2000A-2)

I've read some "covert cam in mailbox" topics back in 2017-2018, but they are indeed well hidden.

Happy Camming!
CC

 

[craywm]

Thanks Catcamstar! I found the VTO online, I'll maybe look at a smaller form factor, but I do indeed like the functionality of an intercom system to the kitchen or elsewhere for the wife to monitor the FR door. I'll just have to sell her on the footprint and find a good mounting location (I actually disabled my current doorbell - the dog seems to wake the baby quite frequently when she suspects the UPS man is an "intruder").

Thanks for the advice!

 

[catcamstar]

You're welcome! Sharing is caring, right!

The footprint of the VTO is quite large, I agree. But you have the option to either "built-in" the wall (you have a porch, so no direct rain influence for waterproof), in my situation, I've got like 10 meter concrete wall, and I needed a waterproof setup too, so I opted for a little "house" for the VTO:

Advantage is that everybody spots the doorbell very quickly, as it 'stands out". I hate it when I arrive at a doorpost when the (tiny) doorbell is hidden somewhere behind a flowerpot

In any case, this camera might give you "better angled" headshot footage, plus you can still turn off the VTH ringing to keep the dog quiet.

And last but not least, when you are not home, you can still "pick up" the door to tell the mailman to throw the package over the fence ;-)

Happy Camming!
CC

 

[CBagz]

Might I add a suggestion.

The front door approach camera---- it looks like you could run the wire inside the soffit on the top of the porch then come down the faux post in the middle of the porch. From there you could mount the camera just below the trim on the post. the camera should blend in and not be noticeable. Mounting it there would get it lower as well as put the porch lights behind the camera.

 

[mat200]

Hello all,
..

Hi @craywm

I really like to have a camera at face level by the front door, especially now as I want to catch as much of the face as possible.

Search for example of door bell / front door cameras here and dahua mini-wedge. There is also a 2 lens version.

 

[craywm]

Thanks for the advice @mat200!

I had not considered this before. I'm planning to test mounting locations my T5442TM-AS this weekend at the front door, but right now I'm thinking I wont maximize the camera capabilities in my space constrains at the front door.

I looked into the mini dome cameras you suggested, but couldn't identify if any of the models have IVS functions. I'd like to at least be able to use face detection If I utilize the wedge mini domes (I believe IPC-HDBW4431F-AS supports this). Do you have any feedback on how well the face detection feature works for this camera considering height?

My concern is that I have lights on both sides of my front door (which happen to be right about head height) which could impact image quality. I'd likely have to mount from the ceiling (8ft) or adjacent wall and only have side view.

I am still considering the DB-11, but am not as keen on a wifi cam (without IVS/Face detection).

Thank you,
craywm

 

[mat200]

Thanks for the advice @mat200!

I had not considered this before. I'm planning to test mounting locations my T5442TM-AS this weekend at the front door, but right now I'm thinking I wont maximize the camera capabilities in my space constrains at the front door.

I looked into the mini dome cameras you suggested, but couldn't identify if any of the models have IVS functions. I'd like to at least be able to use face detection If I utilize the wedge mini domes (I believe IPC-HDBW4431F-AS supports this). Do you have any feedback on how well the face detection feature works for this camera considering height?

My concern is that I have lights on both sides of my front door (which happen to be right about head height) which could impact image quality. I'd likely have to mount from the ceiling (8ft) or adjacent wall and only have side view.

I am still considering the DB-11, but am not as keen on a wifi cam (without IVS/Face detection).

Thank you,
craywm

@craywm

Skip that model .. sensor is small ( 1/3” 4Megapixel progressive scan CMOS )

get the 2mp starlight version ( search the forum forIPC-HDBW4231F-AS ) , ask Andy if a newer version is available.

there is also a 2 lens version - search for looney2ns reviews

 

[CBagz]

Here is an install thread of the camera mat200 is talking about in the above post.

How I installed a Dahua IPC-HDBW4231F-AS wedge cam at the front door

I installed a wedge cam this weekend in the corner of my front porch next to the door bell. A lot of folks on here have installed the same cam in the same fashion so there's nothing new here. I've seen several inquiries on the forum asking members how they installed their camera so I thought I'd...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[DsineR]

Hi @craywm

I really like to have a camera at face level by the front door, especially now as I want to catch as much of the face as possible.

Search for example of door bell / front door cameras here and dahua mini-wedge. There is also a 2 lens version.

I have a similar problem - getting the porch cam at eye level. The front door entrance is 90° from the porch main approach, and no good location for a cam capturing visitors.
Ended up installing a small Hik cube cam behind the porch window, and a secondary cam above the door. Cannot see the Hik from the inside due to window blinds, & gets the cam at perfect level. The porch is lit at night, no concerns over IR bounce back or night vision quality.

 

[mat200]

Also see this setup, nicely done

First cam up HDBW4321FP-AS 2.8mm

Here is first camera up and running on Blue Iris. I have been in for a bunch of tests so moving slowly. Next, on to Driveway.

ipcamtalk.com

ps - I like the 2.8mm lens when suspect within 2 feet of the camera

 

[craywm]

Thanks for all the input. That installation thread is quite helpful @CBagz.

I'll also look into the Hik cube camera as @DsineR mentioned. I have small windows next to front door where I could maybe get a camera.

I'll post a picture tonight of the front door entry. I'm worried about glare off the mini dome, since the best option I have for mounting the wedge is very near to a current light fixture.

Looks like I'll be cutting more holes in my walls than I suspected!

Thanks for all your help!

 

[CBagz]

Check out your faux posts and see if you can run the wire from the soffit down into the post and then mount it.

 

[craywm]

All,

here is the photo of the Front entry. I would probably mount the wedge to the right side of the left light,roughly level with the light (doorbell side of door). You can also see my test setup for mounting 5442T in the corner.

Any thoughts on if the glare from the left/right porch lights would cause glare on the mini dome wedge?

 

[megazone23]

I have a similar problem - getting the porch cam at eye level. The front door entrance is 90° from the porch main approach, and no good location for a cam capturing visitors.
Ended up installing a small Hik cube cam behind the porch window, and a secondary cam above the door. Cannot see the Hik from the inside due to window blinds, & gets the cam at perfect level. The porch is lit at night, no concerns over IR bounce back or night vision quality.

I was planning to use a bullet camera with voice and speakerphone for the front door (and already bought it), but couldn't find a good location for it. Putting it above door level doesn't get a good look of the visitor, putting a camera at near eye level next to the door simply look bad.

So, decided just to replace the doorbell with a video doorbell (Dahua/Amcrest) and problem solved (still looking for a 25-30 degree bracket to get a better angle)

 

[craywm]

@megazone23 what doorbell cam did you go with? I want to go with an POE version, but haven’t found a good option yet.

 

[megazone23]

@megazone23 what doorbell cam did you go with? I want to go with an POE version, but haven’t found a good option yet.

Since I have a Dahua OEM NVR, so I was considering the Dahua DB11, Amcrest AD110 (Dahua rebadged) and also the only economic POE doorbell from Yoosee
I agree that there isn't a good POE option yet.

I prefer a wired solution so first looking at the Yoosee doorbell. Reading from its thread, it uses ethernet cable power but not true POE. It's not a problem. Rather than some reported dropped frame rate, the most issue I have it is it doesn't send motion detection events to NVR, so NVR will not see alarm and also have to record all the time. So far, I want recording when there is motion detected. If you prefer 24/7 recording or going for the route of Blue Iris, that's not an issue.

So, I got Amcrest AD110 instead, which uses wifi, which integrates better with my NVR. The difference of DB11 and AD110, doorbell/video call function is using the cloud and they are using different cloud system. So, AD110 needs to use Amcrest's mobile app for doorbell and call and it can be added to Dahua app and NVR only as a camera. Another issue is it doesn't come with any angle brackets. Amcrest support website have documents about that but they don't have them yet (And didn't find any counterpart Dahua brackets)
Anyway, for wireless, you can go with any doorbell that suits the system you're going to use.

 

[craywm]

Thanks for the information @megazone23.

**Warning: All pictures were taken as screenshots from the substream on my phone app - more concerned here about angle than picture quality.

Last night I was able to make a test cable to test the original location I had considered installing my 5442T. The lower height is 7 ft, and the upper height is around 7.75ft:


Here are color views with lights on from both heights (All camera setting default - 8ft lens may have been dirty):


My original thinking was that this camera could catch some side walk traffic during the day, but even the 7 ft view to the side walk is pretty bad (of course this is night, my neighbors large tree blocks the street lamp lighting):



And a color one just because:


Since this is my first camera, I'm relying on the forums feedback for positioning/use case (this will also give me good insight into positioning in other locations as well).

Personally, I like that the lower mounting gives me a better view to the approach, but due to lighting conditions, I will still probably need a camera solely to catch the sidewalk (especially at night)

Like I said earlier, this camera was originally supposed to go at my front door (its a 2.8mm), but I'm thinking it would serve its purpose better in another location, and the front door maybe easily covered with a mini-dome (or a very similar FOV as above with a dual mini dome).

My options are:
1) Use this camera at 7 FT (Above)
2) Use this cam at 7 ft with a doorbell cam
3) Use wedge cam in this location and move the T5442 solely to Front approach (under porch soffit).

What do you guys think after seeing the test setup:


Thanks for your feedback!
craywm