Compare IPC-T2231T-ZS to IPC-T3241T-ZAS ?

[jlindblo]

All settings are done within the camera GUI.

it comes down to configuring your camera and dialing it in to your field of view and using a test subject to walk around while you are adjusting.

Auto/default settings are usually going to be problematic. Auto shutter at night was probably a motion blur ghost and didn't look like a human.

And some field of views will be problematic as well. YMMV.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.

I must be blind or in the wrong program. I don't see "shutter" listed anywhere. I open IE and then log in and I've clicked on everything there ... or maybe it's past my bedtime .... 1st, am I looking in the right area?

 

[jlindblo]

Keep in mind if it is on auto/default settings at night, it will produce a nice bright image and green grass showing up all night, but motion will be a complete blur...YOu will have to dial it in to get the best performance, which will probably mean the night image will be darker than you see right now and may have to go into B/W...

Good point wittai .... I'll go out right now and walk by it's temp mounting and see if I get any artifacts. And I saw ghosting so I'm try to find where to set it the black and white, or find shutter settings

 

[wittaj]

Gotta select the conditions and then the options show up.

 

[MikeLud1]

where to set it the black and white, or find shutter settings

Shutter settings are under Conditions/Exposure and B/W are under Conditions/Day & Night

 

[jlindblo]

All settings are done within the camera GUI.

it comes down to configuring your camera and dialing it in to your field of view and using a test subject to walk around while you are adjusting.

Auto/default settings are usually going to be problematic. Auto shutter at night was probably a motion blur ghost and didn't look like a human.

And some field of views will be problematic as well. YMMV.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.

Hooray ... You had to put a ring in my nose to get me there but I made a couple of adjustments and saw a big change. Went out and walked and saw that my face was washed out (gain was 65) but now I am seeing how to make the adjustments. I can see now that I'll need to do some more night adjustments before I do the install away from the house. But for tonight my eyelids are falling over my eyeballs so time to hit the sack. Thank you so much ... I will have more questions after I see the Alerts tomorrow and see what I did to the daytime settings, and then when I make more night adjustments later.

 

[jlindblo]

Shutter settings are under Conditions/Exposure and B/W are under Conditions/Day & Night

View attachment 104076
View attachment 104079

Oh thanks much ..... I do pictures much better than text .... :^))))))

 

[Flintstone61]

when they explain sensor size in Ammunition Caliber its like that for me...a picture i can see in my mind....

 

[jlindblo]

Keep in mind if it is on auto/default settings at night, it will produce a nice bright image and green grass showing up all night, but motion will be a complete blur...YOu will have to dial it in to get the best performance, which will probably mean the night image will be darker than you see right now and may have to go into B/W...

Good point wittai .... I'll go out right now and walk by it's temp mounting and see if I get any artifacts.

All settings are done within the camera GUI.

it comes down to configuring your camera and dialing it in to your field of view and using a test subject to walk around while you are adjusting.

Auto/default settings are usually going to be problematic. Auto shutter at night was probably a motion blur ghost and didn't look like a human.

And some field of views will be problematic as well. YMMV.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.

I worked on my Day/Night and Shutter/Gain settings this morning when it was still pitch black out where I could then walk outside in front of the camera and then back in to check any progress. This camera will be mounted about 8' high above an entrance door and watching subjects coming up a couple of steps 15 yards out and onto a 6' sidewalk that then runs up to the front door. Probably 98% of the videos will be in broad daylight and the other 2% of cleaning personnel and night activities. So facial recognition needs to be reasonable for that 15 yards to the entrance, and maybe it is? I do see some stuttering and checked my cpu usage which was around 50% with 11 cameras running on BI 4 and maybe that's reasonable but I will review what I've done and may not have done. I see washout of the facial features when the subject is close to the camera and that may be a trade off. I have night to black and white and day to color. The rest of my day after 8 am got away from me with normal activities of living.
View attachment 640 am.mp4
View attachment Dark morning.mp4
View attachment Desktop 2021.10.08 - 18.42.39.04 (1).mp4

 

[Flintstone61]

I got the bright idea today to overlay the cam model# into the screen cuz i can never keep all those numbers straight. one is the model discussed in this thread.

 

[jlindblo]

That's a Great idea and I'm going to adopt it. Makes identifying and comparing much easier .

 

[Flintstone61]

Yeah, I'll try it for awhile.....see what happens. Maybe I should insert " Jivetech" in the Jidetech overlay.....as Sebastiantombs calls them.

 

[jlindblo]

Thanks to all the help here I've come to some conclusions on setting up the IPC-T3241T-ZAS to be installed at church. I've tested at night for the last 2 days and it seems color will give the best facial detail at night at a close range. Bear in mind that I'm just looking at subjects who will walk up a sidewalk for 15 yds to an entrance and the surrounding landscape detail is not as important. In fact it is almost totally black. I worked mostly with Black and White and tuned to the best of my knowledge where I thought the image was acceptable. For kicks I set to color with the exact same adjustments I had for B&W and I noticed a couple of things. One, there was no IR turned on for color, and two, motion was not detected as quickly. I thought the color would be better in identification. And I realize that when I move the camera to it's new home I will likely have to make some different adjustments. But here are the freeze frame pictures I captured I thought would be acceptable. And If I slowed the shutter speed down would the detection be picked up sooner? Or would the close ups be more washed out?

 

[sebastiantombs]

As is always said, every situation is different. If you have any ambient light in that walkway color will probably work out at night.

 

[jlindblo]

There are dim overhead lights so I should be able to use color. Thanks to all here I'm making a small donation to the forum. I really appreciate.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

The IPC-T2231T-ZE and IPC-T3241T-ZAS and IPC-T2431T-AS are the best ones for cost saving cams, easy blow up those cheap toys on the amazon.

 

[wittaj]

The IPC-T2231T-ZE and IPC-T3241T-ZAS and IPC-T2431T-AS are the best ones for cost saving cams, easy blow up those cheap toys on the amazon.

Yes, the captures above are certainly better than these LOL:

But dang that non moving car is clear LOL.



and my personal favorite from their own marketing video...do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. This is why you cannot buy any system that you cannot change the shutter speed or control any other parameter. Could this provide anything useful for the police? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:



Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you

 

[jlindblo]

Yes, the captures above are certainly better than these LOL:

View attachment 104387 But dang that non moving car is clear LOL.

View attachment 104388

and my personal favorite from their own marketing video...do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. This is why you cannot buy any system that you cannot change the shutter speed or control any other parameter. Could this provide anything useful for the police? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:

View attachment 104389

Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you

Wow .... I'm surprised that Reolink let this pic out .. Amazing!

 

[wittaj]

The low-end consumer grade products know they need to "educate" their buyers that nighttime images are problematic and that images like you got with a real camera is not attainable.

And it is apparently working with all the Rings, Arlos, Nests, etc. of the consumer world.