Camera newbie - Want's a cloudless setup

[Bingo600]

Hello Forum - Camera/NVR newbie here.

I'm working w. enterprise nwtworks on a daily base, so the PoE/IP setup doesn't scare me
But things like Focus .. Alarms , Fences etc ... Is almost totally new to me.

I need advice on getting a NVR that's NOT needing any P2P or Cloud to operate remotely (configure + dl recorded video etc ...)
I would prefer if it was working from a browser (linux), but if i need a "single run of Win mgmt sw. for setting up", I can live with that.


I have a few (4) ASECAM 8MP PoE cameras - Metal house IR + Light , and runs fine wo cloud connection.
Web (browser) configurable , Stream can be viewed via VLC. Not bad for the price.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005048005737.html

I got their NVR recorder too --- DONT
NVR Is prob a Xiongmai NVR and ASECAM OEM'ed it.
NVR ID: NBD80S16S-KL or NVR ID: NBD80S16S-KLV2

1: It needs you to download some windows exe , in order to control anything from a browser
I only have one win-pc , rest is linux. I want to use linux for controlling.

2: It uses/saves settings in the cloud, including uid/pwd for remote (browser) login.
So even if you do a local or VPN login from that windows program ... It won't connect ...

So the cam's behave quite nice, also wo. cloud connection.
And can even be setup so they don't even try to acces the cloud. My firewall logs confirm that.


What i need is a decent NVR that can be controlled via a browser (linux), and will run wo. being connected to the Cloud.
I already have a 4TB WD Purple NVR Sata disk.
I'd need 8 or 16 chans. capable of recording my 8K (H.265) streams, and that has active firmware development (read ... upgrades)
But i don't want PoE in the recorder, that i have on my switches.
I would prefer something that's available in EU/Ebay/Ali - As customs fees is a concern.

I would like suggestions of "confirmed" NVR's that can be operated wo any cloud/internet connections , if possible.

Any suggestions ???


I have been looking at this Dahua, but don't know if they can operate wo. "calling the mothership"

Dahua NVR5208/16/32-EI 8/16/32CH 2SATA 4K AI Network Video Recorder Face recogn. | eBay

Dahua NVR5208/16/32-EI 8/16/32CH 2SATA 1U 4K NVR AI WizSense Network Video Recorder w/o PoE Port. (Note : Original Dahua English version and upgradeable, US/EU/AU/UK plug available.). Dahua Face Recognition technology extracts the features of captured faces and compares them with those in face...

www.ebay.de

I see a NVR5216-EI (AI stuff ?) and a NVR5216-4KS2 - I think there's a newer NVR5216-4KS2E or NVR5216-4KS2V2
As i read it the EI has some NVR intelligense that can do ?
Enabling AI costs on the BW (200Mb w. AI , and 384Mb wo.) , but i'll prob have 5 cams @15fps , so 200Mb should be able to handle it.


How about HIKVision ??
Even though i lean towards Dahua 5xxx.

/Bingo

 

[bigredfish]

All of the 5000 series NVRs listed above can operate with out any cloud service. As to remote capabilities, one simply uses OpenVPN. That’s how most of us do it.

The newer EI/AI models simply add AI capability to the NVR vs relying on the camera AI, as noted at the expense of BW. I prefer to use the camera AI as most settings need to be made there anyway.

 

[Bingo600]

All of the 5000 series NVRs listed above can operate with out any cloud service. As to remote capabilities, one simply uses OpenVPN. That’s how most of us do it.

Thanx for that

The newer EI/AI models simply add AI capability to the NVR vs relying on the camera AI, as noted at the expense of BW. I prefer to use the camera AI as most settings need to be made there anyway.

I don't think my Cam's have AI.
But they seem to be able to detect a human or motion.
Attached the "Interresting cam config pages" (Cam webpage)
Most of that stuff doesn't "ring a bell" to me yet ...

Then again, i'm not even sure if i "need" AI ....
But i'd prob. get an AI NVR, in order not to lock my self out of a feature i'll miss later.


I made a dedicated Cam Vlan for the Cams + NVR , and "everything is working" if the NVR has access to the Cloud.

It's a pity that the $60 Asecam (Xmeye) recorder won't "let me login, from remote" if i block access to the "Cloud" ... Some aliexpress-cloud ip.
I could even have lived with having to use the "Windows exe" addon when needing remote access.
But no way i'm allowing my Cam system leave my local network(s), and connect to the Cloud.

As already mentioned i have a working OpenVPN setup for accessing the stuff from phones/tablets , and a L2L OpenVPN from "Home to the summerhouse".
But unless i open up for Cloud, my browser login will say "Invalid password".

 

[Bingo600]

Any tips on a "Shop" EU/Ali/Ebay where i can get a fully working NVR5216-EI ... AKA not a "Fake Clone"
As already mentioned i have PoE in my switches , and am not interested in having that in the NVR.

The cameras are located in my summerhouse, and i'd just like to record/document people entering the area.
I don't need a lot of fancy stuff (yet ...)

Are there any reasons to get another model ??


Btw:
Re the Asecam Cams - They seem to work quite ok for delivering a camera stream.
I do have a Linux VLC (FFmpeg) issue when they switch to IR mode .. Direct CAM Stream access.
VLC won't show the stream , it just shows a single frame, and stops. I tried both HW decode and SW decode.
But if i open the stream with VLC on the iPhone/iPad. It displays flawlessly.
I contacted the VLC team , but they just pointed me to the FFmpeg team.

If i switch the cam to H.264, night (IR) mode also works on linux VLC , but i'd like to use the H.265 compression for recording.

I guess you already know here
As a newbie, i fought to get VLC to show the RTSP stream .. It wouldn't
I spend hours ... Until i stumbled across a statement from Debian. Saying RTSP was disabled on newer VLC implementations, due to the RTSP sourcecode not being "Opensource"
So i ended up having to install VLC via Flatpack (linux mint) , as the flatpack still have RTSP enabled... Even though Flatpack is not my favourite.

 

[bigredfish]

Recommend you contact Andy (member) @EMPIRETECANDY . He is a Dahua Distributor and friend of the forum. He's the best supplier Ive ever run across.
He also has a store site - EmpireTech | Security Protection | Security Cameras & NVRs
and an Amazon store EmpireTech

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Cool, just send me a DM.

 

[Sybertiger]

You ever consider Blue Iris as your NVR and being less concerned about if a NVR only supports certain makes of cameras?

+1 on Andy. He's da man!

 

[Bingo600]

You ever consider Blue Iris as your NVR and being less concerned about if a NVR only supports certain makes of cameras?

For now i'd like a dedicated "ASIC" low power H.265 recorder ...
Electricity costs serious $$$ in EU ... Like > 0.5 US$/kWH
So i'm not interested in an Old ineffective i7, that would eat up the price difference in a year or so.

But just for the record is there any yearly license cost/fee on BI or ?
What about upgrades ?

 

[wittaj]

For BI, there is a one time purchase of roughly $60USD and then if you want ongoing support and updates after the first year, roughly $30USD. But that is totally optional and many people are running on the last version they could update to and then sit on that version. And then if they add a feature you want or need, then pay the $30USD and get updates for a year.

Keep in mind this isn't a subscription and your version will work without updating, compared to say Ring that if you don't renew you lose ability to record.

Also keep in mind that NVRs are rarely updated - like maybe two or three times in a year or so period, so the argument that you can't update beyond a year with BI without paying is a not really a valid argument. To update an NVR after a few years, it is buying a new NVR because they don't make their money pushing out updates on old NVRs.

BI may update several times per week, so the frequency is much greater by order of magnitudes than what you would see with an NVR.

Unless it is a really old computer, most of us find that a BI/PC combo uses less power than an NVR.

 

[Sybertiger]

^^^ What he said plus the most important thing IMHO. Many NVRs will lock you into that manufacturers cameras. Many on here use Blue Iris with mixed manufacturers due to either one model is better suited for that specific purpose or they are using old cams still and have not updated them to newer better cams from a different manufacturer.

 

[Bingo600]

For BI, there is a one time purchase of roughly $60USD and then if you want ongoing support and updates after the first year, roughly $30USD. But that is totally optional and many people are running on the last version they could update to and then sit on that version. And then if they add a feature you want or need, then pay the $30USD and get updates for a year.

Keep in mind this isn't a subscription and your version will work without updating, compared to say Ring that if you don't renew you lose ability to record.

Also keep in mind that NVRs are rarely updated - like maybe two or three times in a year or so period, so the argument that you can't update beyond a year with BI without paying is a not really a valid argument. To update an NVR after a few years, it is buying a new NVR because they don't make their money pushing out updates on old NVRs.

BI may update several times per week, so the frequency is much greater by order of magnitudes than what you would see with an NVR.

So it's not the annual cost of BI that should prevent me ... Agreed.

Unless it is a really old computer, most of us find that a BI/PC combo uses less power than an NVR.

Well the i7-6700 that is mentioned in @Sybertiger's sig. , has a TDP of 65W, then you have to add Ram + Mobo usage.


Here's a snip from the 5216-EI DS - "Less than" 10W (excl hdd) - That's going to be hard to beat even with a Mobile Intel/AMD

 

[wittaj]

Most modern PCs idle less than 15watts with a drive and are running BI around 30-50watts with 2 HDDs and 1 SSD.

How much power will the NVR be with an HDD? Most 3.5" HDDs use 6-10watts, so you could be over a PC usage at idle once you throw a drive in the NVR.

Many of us run an NVR and a BI/PC as we like redundancy LOL and for most of us, the NVR is consuming more power.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Bingo600]

Well i have 2 of these boards w. an Intel 3845 CPU + 8G Ram - The 3845 is a Quad Core (No HT) 1.9GHz CPU
Would they have "enough" CPU power `

 

[wittaj]

While nobody here would recommend someone go buy a 3rd gen for BI, there are many people still using a 3rd and 4th gen CPU just fine for BI. I recall someone here running a 3rd gen with 15 cameras around 40% CPU.

The key will be do to every optimization in the wiki, but we say that regardless of the CPU. No need working it any harder than it needs to.

BI has the ability to run a demo for 14-15 days, so if you have a camera and the computer sitting around, give it a try and see what you think.

 

[looney2ns]

Well i have 2 of these boards w. an Intel 3845 CPU + 8G Ram
Would they have "enough" CPU power `

No, see here: Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris Some of the info in that is a little outdated.
A used HP EliteDesk SFF PC with a i5-8500 cpu makes a nice efficient Blue Iris PC.
Some examples:

elitedesk i5-8500 sff in PC Desktops & All-In-Ones for sale | eBay

www.ebay.com

 

[Sybertiger]

My computer was bought 3 or 4 years ago. No one would buy a i7-6700 today. A i5-8500 would likely be the way to go today. However, 4 years later the I7-6700 is more than enough to handle the 10+ cams I have. And, the rating of the power supply has nothing to do with the power consumption. That rating is for the maximum theoretical load. When I get home from vacation I'll measure actual power consumption. Some people want an NVR no matter what and there's nothing wrong with that. Go for it.

 

[Bingo600]

A used HP EliteDesk SFF PC with a i5-8500 cpu makes a nice efficient Blue Iris PC.
Some examples:

elitedesk i5-8500 sff in PC Desktops & All-In-Ones for sale | eBay

www.ebay.com

Unfortunately that's not the prices in EU-Land ....

I can get a
HP, ProDesk 600, I5-8500 Ghz, 16 GB ram - US$ 290 - Sems like a 3.5" would fit into it

Dell Optiplex 3060, I5-8500 Ghz, 16 GB ram - US$ 270 - Sems like a 3.5" would fit into it

 

[TonyR]

Unfortunately that's not the prices in EU-Land ....

I can get a
HP, ProDesk 600, I5-8500 Ghz, 16 GB ram - US$ 290 - Sems like a 3.5" would fit into it

Dell Optiplex 3060, I5-8500 Ghz, 16 GB ram - US$ 270 - Sems like a 3.5" would fit into it

Either is good but I recommend that if you go with the HP insure that it is a G3
Both may provide HDMI and DisplayPort video but neither may provide VGA (although the HP more likely has VGA) so make sure you have a monitor to work with what is provided.

 

[Swampledge]

My i7-6700 with 14 cameras (connected monitor not powered) plus a POE switch powering 2 of those cameras plus an old Linksys router running as an access point is using 47 watts.

 

[Bingo600]

@Swampledge .. Thanx for the info

I found a Dell 5070 w an i5-9500 & 32GB Ram & 500GB SSD for $255
Not that bad ... Seems to have room for a 3.5" too
Same TDP (65W) as the i5-6700


Well ... After some consideration (And Andy writing that the Dahua might not like my cams)
I think i might give BI a spin.
Thank you for enlightening me.