Camera installation question???

[ingeborgdot]

I have a friend that has set up cameras in 2 different locations about 10 miles from each other. He has the same ISP for both. I don't know for sure how they have both places communicate with one piece of software that they use, but it does work. They are charging him $480 a month, and he thinks that is kind of high, considering they don't give much for customer service. They do come and work on stuff, but it is like pulling teeth to get it done.
He wants me to check to see what I could put in a new cam system in both places for.
I would like to use Dahua IPC-T5442T-ZE IR Vari-Focal cameras, with Blue Iris as the software.
Will I need to have a server in both locations? Will I need to have BI at both locations?
What kind of information would I need to give for someone to give me some advice on what needs to be done to make a 2 location system work? I have a 9 camera setup at my home, but it is one location with one server. I have never tried a 2 location setup.
If anyone would like to help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.
My friend is a quadriplegic, and I try to help him out with as much as I can. I'm not an expert at this by any means, but I do have general knowledge of setting up camera systems.
Thanks so much.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Set-up a system in each of the locations. In the event that one site loses power, internet, etc the other site will continue to function. This will require two licensed systems of BI

 

[ingeborgdot]

Each site has different cameras, so if one loses power, you still won't see those cameras. 2 licenses is not a big thing. They are actually pretty cheap for how good BI is.
So, I would need to build 2 servers too. I thought that may be the case. I just have to do some more studying of the system he has right now.

 

[TonyR]

+1^^.
By doing it as @SpacemanSpiff suggests, you incur no bandwidth issues. Also, the cost of the 'additional 'server at the 2nd location when amortized over the year is like peanuts.

Insure both servers are dedicated to BI, have adequate battery back up's, meet minimum recommended specs and are configured to optimize the CPU.

 

[iwanttosee]

Do the two location's network talk to each other?

 

[ingeborgdot]

I'm not sure yet. I think so, because I have seen them both on the software that the company has.

 

[TVille]

I'm not sure yet. I think so, because I have seen them both on the software that the company has.

You can get the cameras on both sites to display on a single computer without the sites being "networked" together. But, I think you need to take a step back.

First, figure out what the $480 actually covers. I'm guessing it covers hardware, cameras and support. It could also cover networking his sites together for work related functions. Kind of important to KNOW this before he cancels the service!

Second, understand his desires for cameras. How many? What purpose - general coverage, identify suspects at 10' or 100', watch employees for stealing from the till, etc. How long does he want storage? Days, weeks, months?

Once you have that laid out, you can get help here for services required, hardware required, and costs. I suspect you can get a BI system for each for a pretty good price compared to what he is paying now. This place has amazing resources, but the folks here need to know exactly what problem they are solving.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

as far as a BI server goes, you can buy refurbished HP EliteDesk 800G2 mini PCs with a Core i7-6700 (note the 6700T, whihc is also an option, is a lower performance version) for just a few hundred dollars on ebay, with 8 or 16GB ram. I got mine with an M.2 SSD for the Windows + BI software, and added an inexpensive 2TB 2.5" HD for the video storage. the whole PC is only 7x7x1.5 inches and draws a very modest amount of power.

ok, I paid $319 for HP EliteDesk 800 G2 Mini QC i7-6700 3.4Ghz 16GB RAM 256GB NVMe M.2 SSD Win10Pro, $70 for the 2TB 2.5" HD, $135 for a 24" IPS LCD screen, oh, and $10 for a wall mount for the screen because I wanted it off my desk. so I guess I'm in it for $550ish for the whole thing. add PoE switches and cameras, of course. This setup will easily handle around 8 cameras with BI doing full res motion detect, and way way more with the cameras doing their own motion detect and using substreams

 

[Left Coast Geek]

oh, there's a very similar HP EliteDesk SFF series that are a size larger than the Mini, but still quite small. I believe the SFF will hold 2 3.5" sata disks, which would be good if you want more than what fits on a 2.5" SATA.

btw, the one I describe in my last post, it supports dual 4K displayport monitors. while I haven't tried BlueIris with two screens, I assume it can support it, so you can have a group of cameras on one monitor, and others and/or playback on another, or any such combination, yada yada.

 

[mikeynags]

The $480/month charge sounds high. You could pull off the same thing but it will take some planning from a network standpoint. As someone commented above, there has to be more to that charge per month, maybe server costs plus storage costs etc. Doing it yourself will save your friend a ton of money.

 

[ingeborgdot]

Here is the proposal from the company.
Main Site
1-Axis 12-Ch Tower Recorder - 6TB
8-Axis 5MP Bullet - Optimized IR, WDR, Lightfinder
2-Point 2 Point Bridge
1-Axis 8 Port POE Switch
2-UPS Battery Backup
1-Certified Configuration and programming

Site 2 (10 miles away)
1-8-Ch NVR with POE Switch 4TB
4-Axis 5MP Bullet - Optimized IR, WDR, Lightfinder
2-Point 2 point Bridge
1- UPS Battery Backup
1- Certified Configuration and programming

They also want it to be a 60 month contract.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks for any feedback. Have a great day.

 

[ingeborgdot]

You can get the cameras on both sites to display on a single computer without the sites being "networked" together. But, I think you need to take a step back.

First, figure out what the $480 actually covers. I'm guessing it covers hardware, cameras and support. It could also cover networking his sites together for work related functions. Kind of important to KNOW this before he cancels the service!

Second, understand his desires for cameras. How many? What purpose - general coverage, identify suspects at 10' or 100', watch employees for stealing from the till, etc. How long does he want storage? Days, weeks, months?

Once you have that laid out, you can get help here for services required, hardware required, and costs. I suspect you can get a BI system for each for a pretty good price compared to what he is paying now. This place has amazing resources, but the folks here need to know exactly what problem they are solving.

It covers hardware, cameras, and support. When you say networking his sites together for work related functions, I'm not sure what you mean there. Sorry.

He has 12 cameras now, but if we can get things going for a good price, he is open to having more cameras if needed. The purpose is just general coverage, so when he is away, he can see things in the shop, or around it. The second site is a bin site that he just wants to monitor periodically. Storage is not an issue as he does not really require many days out for recording, although if we can build our own, there is nothing wrong with having a lot of storage.

I know what cameras to get, what software to use, what servers to buy, or build, and most of the things required to make it work. His ISP is the same for both sites. My biggest issue is how I get the cameras that are out at the distant site to communicate with the server that will be at his office with BI on it.

Thanks.

 

[user8963]

ask them what exact model number of cams/nvr ... then someone can look up if its a good deal. it can be crap or good, who knows.

point to point bridge sounds they plan to use wifi instead of cabeling.. this should be avoided at any time and only used if there is no other possibility.

axis stuff is quite expensive, but you may not have chinese gov backdoors.

also ask them if "Certified Configuration and programming" is a marketing joke or what they mean by certified .. never heard about


i dont see the point... 60x 480/month .. this rougly 30.000 usd for maybe crap.

5442 as is 150usd/piece... 12x150 .. 1800usd
+2 nvr ... 800
+ 4 harddrives.. 400

3000 usd ... if you want blue iris would be the same if you buy renewed pcs.. with new pcs maybe a bit more..

so you have more than 20.000 usd left for somone who install it and set it up.. not sure about us prices , but there are many people who install these systems for cheap.


and the internet ...

each location have their own internet in my opinion.. because its the same isp must not mean that they use only one connection for both...

maybe the isp installed a site to site tunnel ... dont think that they use darkfiber or directional radio ...

 

[The Automation Guy]

I have a friend that has a company that has set up cameras for his business in 2 different locations about 10 miles from each other. He has the same ISP for both. I don't know for sure how they have both places communicate with one piece of software that they use, but it does work. They are charging him $480 a month, and he thinks that is kind of high, considering they don't give much for customer service. They do come and work on stuff, but it is like pulling teeth to get it done.
He wants me to check to see what I could put in a new cam system in both places for.
I would like to use Dahua IPC-T5442T-ZE IR Vari-Focal cameras, with Blue Iris as the software.
Will I need to have a server in both locations? Will I need to have BI at both locations?
What kind of information would I need to give for someone to give me some advice on what needs to be done to make a 2 location system work? I have a 9 camera setup at my home, but it is one location with one server. I have never tried a 2 location setup.
If anyone would like to help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.
My friend is a quadriplegic, and I try to help him out with as much as I can. I'm not an expert at this by any means, but I do have general knowledge of setting up camera systems.
Thanks so much.

No offense, but you are in over your head. The fact that this is a company that needs ongoing support and a 60 month contract should be enough to realize this should be left to the professionals. What they are asking for is a lot different from "helping a friend out" which is how the thread started out. I totally understand trying to help a friend out, but you also need to know when they are asking for a lot more than you can/should provide.

EDIT - I'm sorry. I totally mis-read your post and thought that YOUR COMPANY was asking for a 60 month contract. In reality it is the CCTV company that is asking for a 60 month contract. That is totally out of line IMHO. The only reason they would need that is is they are covering all of the upfront cost of installation and the customer is only paying for a monthly fee. I would never conduct business like this and it is set up to always benefit the servicing company. You will end up paying WAY too much for installation when they bill like this (cell phone companies, alarm companies, etc). If they are making you pay for installation AND asking for a 60 mo contact, then that is even worse! I certainly would not use this company - at least not if these are their terms.

 

[Teken]

No offense, but you are in over your head. The fact that this is a company that needs ongoing support and a 60 month contract should be enough to realize this should be left to the professionals. What they are asking for is a lot different from "helping a friend out" which is how the thread started out. I totally understand trying to help a friend out, but you also need to know when they are asking for a lot more than you can/should provide.

^ This

There are some things to consider which is any so called professional is going to be using quality material and installing the cables to spec. This is a area where it can save a person the headache and safety risk of running hundreds of feet of cable and punching through electrical, water, and gas lines.

Once the major wiring infrastructure is in place. A person can save lots of money by buying and installing cameras themselves. This obviously assumes it’s within the limits of a person ability and if not get those hard to reach areas installed by the same professionals!

Nothing stopping a person from setting up their own PTP bridge either.

All of this is predicated upon the user being able to complete all of the setup, programming, etc. If the person doesn’t have any technical knowledge that’s why professionals exist!

You either do - or you pay.

The slippery slope is roping in a friend to provide IT Support that seems to never end. I don’t provide anyone technical support outside of these forums. Because that’s why they (forums) exists and the internet is the largest depository of knowledge ever created by man!

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

...
The fact that this is a company that needs ongoing support and a 60 month contract should be enough to realize this should be left to the professionals.
...

Aside from whether or not OP is going to do any of the job proposed. At the least, OP is asking questions. I can say I've been in plenty of scenarios where I did not necessarily know what questions to ask of potential vendors about a job. IPCT is a good place to gain some knowledge about the scope of work shared so far. There are a lot of "do everything" tech companies that popped up in the area over the last few years. They want a contract of at least 36 months, and the 6 or 7 I've heard feedback about are not overly responsive.

The comment above from @The Automation Guy makes me think twice.... A 60 month contract for surveillance system maintenance? Could make the company professional, also could make 'em bandits. In the hopes of figuring out which one they are, is to ask questions.

• Does the project cost include a cloud component subscription for offsite recording storage?
• What does the monthly fee cover?
• What is their Service Level Agreement (SLA)?
• Why does each site need two P2P bridges?

and the list goes on...

I had one local vendor soaking us for a $199 'documentation fee' on every job they did. When I learned that every invoice should be scrutinized, I asked for more detail. "It covers us putting together & providing you all the hardware manuals and serial numbers of hardware for the job." They NEVER gave us ANY of that information... until soon after that day. A brief face-to-face between the higher-ups and vendor. They performed a retroactive compliance of all 'documentation'.

 

[The Automation Guy]

The comment above from @The Automation Guy makes me think twice.... A 60 month contract for surveillance system maintenance? Could make the company professional, also could make 'em bandits. In the hopes of figuring out which one they are, is to ask questions.

• Does the project cost include a cloud component subscription for offsite recording storage?
• What does the monthly fee cover?
• What is their Service Level Agreement (SLA)?
• Why does each site need two P2P bridges?

and the list goes on...

I totally misread the OPs post and thought HIS company was asking for a 60 month contract. After reading your post, I went back and realized that it was the SERVICING company that was asking for a 60 month contract! That would be a hard NO on that contract. Never in a million years would I agree to a 60 month servicing contract. They are certainly trying to milk the customer while preventing them from changing companies.

 

[Teken]

Just to add it’s my understanding infrastructure and hardware already exists now. So doesn’t this come down to keeping hardware in place like cameras and propping up their own NVR, PTP Bridge, etc???

Maybe I got lost somewhere?!?

 

[user8963]

Never in a million years would I agree to a 60 month servicing contract. They are certainly trying to milk the customer while preventing them from changing companies.

Its not only this.

Some of these companies charge for "service" but there is no service... If you ask for service because of problems, they are unavailable and you have to wait weeks and months. They sell their "service" to everyone but their ability to serve do not rise as fast as they sell it. And if you finally get service, you have to pay for repair (new hardware) ... this is a scheme of most of the service-plan companies

The OP already mention it in the first post...

They are charging him $480 a month, and he thinks that is kind of high, considering they don't give much for customer service. They do come and work on stuff, but it is like pulling teeth to get it done.

But i dont understand the whole situation. Not sure if the old company wants to install a new system, another company want to install a new system because they want to get rid of the old...


i even dont understand @Teken ... even if you pay someone to install you a system with NEW wires it would be not 20.000 USD ... never. not for 12 cameras... and the "new"/"old" company dont even want to use wires and run p2p bridges... no no no

20.000 USD for service? what service for 12 cameras ?? what is the work on a installed camera system? troubles with the wifi bridges...? yes !

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

• OP's friend has an existing system(s) in two business locations that is currently costing $480/month.
• Either the current contract is up, or business owner is tired of the current cost.
• OP is hoping to help friend either directly, (or indirectly) via his own knowledge and the help of IPCT

Edit
I surmise OP is trying to figure out (based on feedback from IPCT) whether or not this is something he can take on himself. He is currently running his own BI(?) with 9 cams in his home.