BlueIris vs OpenSource pros & cons...?

[myipcam]

Not really a comment one-way-or-the-other but I see that system is available new at Staples for $660.

Some of these small prebuilt systems are very limited in mounting additional hard drives (like to add a purple or SSD surveillance boot disk). Anyway keep posting your experience, so anyone in the future that finds a deal on one of these will know what they are getting into!

I appreciate the feedback. Hardware is a losing game anyway. Originally, I was planning to build specifically for the raid feature and double NIC on the mini-ITX board. As it dawned on me (thanks to members here), it really didn't make sense to spend that much for a new build when there is no significant benefit for those extra $$$.

I had same doubts about the custom board on this pc. Browsed a bit on HP support and decided to pull the trigger. I will post pics and my findings. It's Christmas all over again. Who knows if it will work the way I intend but if it does, it would be great. Otherwise, return and find something else.

On one hand, I liked the DELL Tangent suggested as it has a slightly better chipset but the Small Form Factor while attractive to me, space seems quite limited allowing maybe an SSD and nothing else. The HP seems to have some room as it is a bigger box with a slightly bigger power supply that can support extra drives without tripping.

 

[myipcam]

Myipcam - certainly looks like a well-spec'ed machine & more than capable

Not a fan of HP myself, more a Dell person - but hey, price wise it certainly looks good

I was excited about the custom build but in the end it didn't make sense $$$ wise. After that, they all seemed the same to me. I am sure some brands are better. It is a learning experience for me so let's see how it works out.

 

[mat200]

I realized members(mostly?) use BlueIris here (and probably, I might end up with that as well) but, wanted to compare with OpenSource solution like ZoneMinder for example.
..

Note, I just wanted to point out that the title of the thread: "BlueIris vs OpenSource pros & cons...?" is not really a proper comparison

Open Source = software license(s) category, and BlueIris = software - so it's not even an Apples to Oranges comparison.

 

[looney2ns]

I appreciate the feedback. Hardware is a losing game anyway. Originally, I was planning to build specifically for the raid feature and double NIC on the mini-ITX board. As it dawned on me (thanks to members here), it really didn't make sense to spend that much for a new build when there is no significant benefit for those extra $$$.

I had same doubts about the custom board on this pc. Browsed a bit on HP support and decided to pull the trigger. I will post pics and my findings. It's Christmas all over again. Who knows if it will work the way I intend but if it does, it would be great. Otherwise, return and find something else.

On one hand, I liked the DELL Tangent suggested as it has a slightly better chipset but the Small Form Factor while attractive to me, space seems quite limited allowing maybe an SSD and nothing else. The HP seems to have some room as it is a bigger box with a slightly bigger power supply that can support extra drives without tripping.

@tangent would not of suggested the Dell, if it didn't have room for an SSd and Purple drive.
The Dell Optiplex's 5000 series now have an M.2 slot on the board, so you have room for an SSD, Leave the CD drive in, and add a Purple drive. And you still have one free SATA port if you want to get creative.

 

[myipcam]

@tangent would not of suggested the Dell, if it didn't have room for an SSd and Purple drive.
The Dell Optiplex's 5000 series now have an M.2 slot on the board, so you have room for an SSD, Leave the CD drive in, and add a Purple drive. And you still have one free SATA port if you want to get creative.

Quite possible! It was purely my speculation based on watching couple videos on SFF and, without any personal experience with specific models, it is difficult for me to have a good perspective; that goes for the HP I bought as well. Just shooting in the dark here... will know more once I receive the box.

 

[myipcam]

Note, I just wanted to point out that the title of the thread: "BlueIris vs OpenSource pros & cons...?" is not really a proper comparison

Open Source = software license(s) category, and BlueIris = software - so it's not even an Apples to Oranges comparison.

I knew that. At the time of posting, Open Source was a catchall phrase in my mind as to not limit discussion to a particular software title in that category. Regardless, you're correct in stating the difference.

 

[mat200]

I knew that. At the time of posting, Open Source was a catchall phrase in my mind as to not limit discussion to a particular software title in that category. Regardless, you're correct in stating the difference.

FYI - my post is mostly there for those new to the topic who may not have joined ipct yet.

 

[myipcam]

Got it. Not an issue.

 

[myipcam]

If you have space for two HDDs, you'd may be better off running them independently. Record half of your cameras on one, and the other half on the other, separating the feeds by location. Front Door - Disk 1, Front Walkway - Disk 2, etc.

I like that idea too. It does give more storage and few cams will continue to record in the event of a drive failure.
The whole (and completely overblown) idea is that if I was out of town for some extended period, the system should continue with some failure(s). Having said that, I do realize the limitations like if the power supply or switch or camera fails, well... can't do much until I return.

Maybe, a better fail-safe is to store in cloud but that brings up too many issues in my head along with an ongoing subscription fee. Further, a simple snip to the fiber coming in would defeat the whole purpose! So, NO to that. As you can see, I've revised the script few times...

 

[myipcam]

Finally, the little box arrived. *Will post pics soon*

I'll try to be thorough in this review and update it as I gather more info.

System details can be found online or at Walmart Web page.:

SPECS
HP Pavilion 590-P0070 -Refurbished (Walmart)

• CPU: i7-8700 (6 core, 12 threads) 3.2GHz base frequency and 4.60GHz turbo.
  
• RAM: 12Gb.
  
• HDD: 1 Tb - 7200 rpm.
  
• DVD: DVD writer.

BACK I/O PORTS:

• (1) VGA port
• (1) HDMI 1.4/HDCP 2.0
• (1) USB 3.0 Type-A port
• (5) USB 2.0 Type-A ports
• (3) Audio ports
• (1) RJ-45 port

FRONT I/O PORTS:

• (1) SD CARD Reader (pretty fast when reading RAW camera files test).
  
• (2) USB 3.0 Type-A port
• (1) USB-C port
  
• (1) Audio port - headphone jack
• Comes with Wireless Mouse & Keyboard (helps when the box is stashed somewhere... You can always use VNC etc.).

EXPANSION

• One PCIe x16 socket
• One PCIe x1 socket (Labeled "PCIEx4" on motherboard). Install LAN card > VM for NAS.
• One M.2 socket 1, 2230 type for WLAN
• One M.2 socket 3, 2280 type for SSD

Case
Opening the case is straight forward and HP provides documentation online (trick is to unlatch and remove the DVD drive so the drive cage comes loose). I verified that it has space to add another drive without any issues. There are 3 SATA sockets on the motherboard, two are occupied by DVD drive and HDD. There is a third socket labeled "HDD2". So, it is possible to add 2 WD Purple HDDs and another large drive for NAS purpose (of course, disconnecting the DVD drive). One would have to get creative in mounting the third drive by using a salvaged drive cage to do the trick and SATA power cable would need a splitter.

M.2 Slot
For OS and Apps an M.2 SSD will be used. It is an "M key" edge connector so it uses 4 PCI lanes (PCIe/NVMe)... in other words faster. From what I understand (could be wrong), this is NOT an SATA type. Ordered a "Samsung MZVLW256HEHP PM961 256GB M.2 NVMe PCIe Internal SSD" from Amazon. Will post my findings.

General
Overall, case looked clean inside and outside, no visible scratches or dents. It is decently quiet other than the 7200rpm HDD whirring and humming, shouldn't matter when it gets locked away in some closet. It has a VGA port; match made in heaven for an old Dell monitor that is dying for companionship!

TESTING

Turned it on and let it install the OS (pre-configured).
Immediately updated BIOS to latest version (check HP support).
Tested CPU using a benchmark utility and Task Manager reports 6 cores maxed out at 4.28GHz while single thread test reaches 4.56GHz so, it is in-line with Intel posted spec. Idle speed is around 1.2GHz (varying of course).

RAID
In Bios, there is an option for RAID under Storage Options > SATA Emulation > AHCI or RAID. Now, it is on AHCI. I am assuming it is not hardware raid and probably involves Intel RST. I am ordering the drives now and will update this section.

VTx/VTd
Default, this option is disabled. Why? I don't know. Found under Security > System Security > Virtualization Technology > Enable.

Overall, I'd say the system ran solid without any issues and overheating etc. Supplied HDD is slow event at 7200rpm when you are used to SSDs. CPU fan is generally very quiet until a constant load and doesn't make that much noise anyway.. This is without BlueIris and other optimizations.
I plan to kill / stop unnecessary services and useless MS garbage before putting this in production. Cortana.. who will she talk to? NO ONE!

I'll edit/update this later with more info.

 

[TonyR]

.....I'll probably add a vent above the door in the drywall, and either cut down the bottom of the door a bit, or add a vent to the door. Convection should do the rest.

Good idea.

I'd go so far as to mount that aforementioned fan BEHIND that top vent/grill to pull air out of closet (from below door bottom or grill at bottom of door) and out the top....just to give that bottom-to-top convection movement a boost.

 

[TonyR]

If you have space for two HDDs, you'd may be better off running them independently. Record half of your cameras on one, and the other half on the other, separating the feeds by location. Front Door - Disk 1, Front Walkway - Disk 2, etc.

Absolutely concur!
I'm not sure what all this sudden infatuation with implementing RAID is coming from, especially on Purple / AV-rated drives.
I think I've seen it a half-dozen times in the last 2 weeks!

 

[myipcam]

Sounds plenty powerful. You must really like RAID. : )

Regarding RAID, I don't have much experience but when a drive fails, you start to wonder what solutions are available. Truth is this build is an overkill including the RAID and I know that. However, the thought is: I am not paying for subscription / Cloud where I can retrieve if my local drive fails and, this is to protect my home so, a little redundancy wouldn't hurt at all. Sure, extra $190 for a 6TB drive but, if the system doesn't fail for 1 year, I'd consider this cost recovered easily.

 

[myipcam]

Absolutely concur!
I'm not sure what all this sudden infatuation with implementing RAID is coming from, especially on Purple / AV-rated drives.
I think I've seen it a half-dozen times in the last 2 weeks!

Well, I'll see how it works in RAID configuration and if things don't pan out, I'll go with splitting it as suggested.

 

[looney2ns]

Finally, the little box arrived. *Will post pics soon*

I'll try to be thorough in this review and update it as I gather more info.

System details can be found online or at Walmart Web page.:

SPECS
HP Pavilion 590-P0070 -Refurbished (Walmart)

• CPU: i7-8700 (6 core, 12 threads) 3.2GHz base frequency and 4.60GHz turbo.
  
• RAM: 12Gb.
  
• HDD: 1 Tb - 7200 rpm.
  
• DVD: DVD writer.

BACK I/O PORTS:

• (1) VGA port
• (1) HDMI 1.4/HDCP 2.0
• (1) USB 3.0 Type-A port
• (5) USB 2.0 Type-A ports
• (3) Audio ports
• (1) RJ-45 port

FRONT I/O PORTS:

• (1) SD CARD Reader (pretty fast when reading RAW camera files test).
  
• (2) USB 3.0 Type-A port
• (1) USB-C port
  
• (1) Audio port - headphone jack
• Comes with Wireless Mouse & Keyboard (helps when the box is stashed somewhere... You can always use VNC etc.).

EXPANSION

• One PCIe x16 socket
• One PCIe x1 socket (Labeled "PCIEx4" on motherboard). Install LAN card > VM for NAS.
• One M.2 socket 1, 2230 type for WLAN
• One M.2 socket 3, 2280 type for SSD

Case
Opening the case is straight forward and HP provides documentation online (trick is to unlatch and remove the DVD drive so the drive cage comes loose). I verified that it has space to add another drive without any issues. There are 3 SATA sockets on the motherboard, two are occupied by DVD drive and HDD. There is a third socket labeled "HDD2". So, it is possible to add 2 WD Purple HDDs and another large drive for NAS purpose (of course, disconnecting the DVD drive). One would have to get creative in mounting the third drive by using a salvaged drive cage to do the trick and SATA power cable would need a splitter.

M.2 Slot
For OS and Apps an M.2 SSD will be used. It is an "M key" edge connector so it uses 4 PCI lanes (PCIe/NVMe)... in other words faster. From what I understand (could be wrong), this is NOT an SATA type. Ordered a "Samsung MZVLW256HEHP PM961 256GB M.2 NVMe PCIe Internal SSD" from Amazon. Will post my findings.

General
Overall, case looked clean inside and outside, no visible scratches or dents. It is decently quiet other than the 7200rpm HDD whirring and humming, shouldn't matter when it gets locked away in some closet. It has a VGA port; match made in heaven for an old Dell monitor that is dying for companionship!

TESTING

Turned it on and let it install the OS (pre-configured).
Immediately updated BIOS to latest version (check HP support).
Tested CPU using a benchmark utility and Task Manager reports 6 cores maxed out at 4.28GHz while single thread test reaches 4.56GHz so, it is in-line with Intel posted spec. Idle speed is around 1.2GHz (varying of course).

RAID
In Bios, there is an option for RAID under Storage Options > SATA Emulation > AHCI or RAID. Now, it is on AHCI. I am assuming it is not hardware raid and probably involves Intel RST. I am ordering the drives now and will update this section.

VTx/VTd
Default, this option is disabled. Why? I don't know. Found under Security > System Security > Virtualization Technology > Enable.

Overall, I'd say the system ran solid without any issues and overheating etc. Supplied HDD is slow event at 7200rpm when you are used to SSDs. CPU fan is generally very quiet until a constant load and doesn't make that much noise anyway.. This is without BlueIris and other optimizations.
I plan to kill / stop unnecessary services and useless MS garbage before putting this in production. Cortana.. who will she talk to? NO ONE!

I'll edit/update this later with more info.

Now install a fresh copy of 10 with the MS Media Creation Tool.

 

[myipcam]

Two Drives, One Box. Same power supply, motherboard, physical location, etc. Not much actual redundancy, IMO. In this application, I just don't see the added complexity of RAID offering much of an advantage when both drives have so many points of failure in common. With your configuration, during a drive failure, will the other drive seamlessly continue to keep the system recording? If not, what's the point?

Most of the data collected on a VMS server is worthless, but it's understandable to want to keep whatever is deemed important. If you're concerned about safely storing clips of meaningful events, cheap or free cloud solutions are a better option than anything you can manage on-site. If you want to keep physical control of your data, NAS or even an external drive can make sense. With an external drive or two, a schedule can be used to periodically rotate the drive kept on-site, with the off-site drive kept in a safe, separate location - at your workplace, for example. Make Monday your swap day, and you'll likely never lose anything more than a week old, as long as you backup your files.

What UPS are you using? Power problems create many of the issues that can take your server, switch, and cameras down - including dead drives. $150 to $200 will buy a pure sine wave UPS that should meet your needs.

First, want to say that those are excellent and valid points. Let's put storage aside for a moment, the most important thing is the CPU itself running BlueIris. If that box goes, everything else is, well, useless. MAYBE, I don't understand the overall picture yet. Ordered couple 5231R-ZE cameras from Andy and should be receiving them next week. The plan is to install max capacity allowed SD cards in them as well. It is possible that cameras retain footage and can be downloaded later by BlueIris (think I read that somewhere)... I need to re-read the Cliff Notes as well as related posts AND, experiment with whole setup.

My point in other words is, if the box processing/sending the data is dead, it doesn't matter what storage solution I implement. Regarding storage failures, couple drives in RAID (*assuming failed drive will NOT hold the other one up* --need to experiment with this) and maybe, FTP or copy to shared network drive any triggered events as an "off the box" solution very similar to what you have suggested. I guess redundancy in this frame of reference to me is to strengthen the weaker link (*i.e. 24/7 spinning HDDs). Does that mean solid state devices (i.e. camera, switch etc.,) don't fail? Absolutely not. So, there is no end to actual "redundancy" IMO.

Haven't researched about the UPS yet. Any good ones you can think of? It would have to factor in total wattage of switch and BlueIris box.

 

[fenderman]

First, want to say that those are excellent and valid points. Let's put storage aside for a moment, the most important thing is the CPU itself running BlueIris. If that box goes, everything else is, well, useless. MAYBE, I don't understand the overall picture yet. Ordered couple 5231R-ZE cameras from Andy and should be receiving them next week. The plan is to install max capacity allowed SD cards in them as well. It is possible that cameras retain footage and can be downloaded later by BlueIris (think I read that somewhere)... I need to re-read the Cliff Notes as well as related posts AND, experiment with whole setup.

My point in other words is, if the box processing/sending the data is dead, it doesn't matter what storage solution I implement. So, to circumvent some of this, couple drives in RAID (*assuming failed drive will NOT hold the other one up* --need to experiment with this) and maybe, FTP or copy to shared network drive any triggered events as an "off the box" solution very similar to what you have suggested.

Haven't researched about the UPS yet. Any good ones you can think of? It would have to factor in total wattage of switch and BlueIris box.

The box going and an NVR going will have the SAME result. How would you expect it to record of the pc is dead?
The footage on the SD card cannot be downloaded to blue iris nor would you need to. You would simply download it from the card IF there was an incident. There are many threads discussing ups backups and the fact that some power supplied need pure sine wave USP.

 

[myipcam]

The box going and an NVR going will have the SAME result. How would you expect it to record of the pc is dead?
The footage on the SD card cannot be downloaded to blue iris nor would you need to. You would simply download it from the card IF there was an incident. There are many threads discussing ups backups and the fact that some power supplied need pure sine wave USP.

Exactly!, if the box goes, system is down. Simple. I don't expect it to record any where.

 

[fenderman]

Exactly!, if the box goes, system is down. Simple. I don't expect it to record any where.

That is the case with any recording device. The is why SD card backup exists.

 

[Q™]

Exactly!, if the box goes, system is down. Simple. I don't expect it to record any where.

Bro...get a grip...if you've got issues with ISIS terrorists stalking you -- or the Mafia putting out a contract on your life -- you should fuQ the cameras...and move.