Advice on Dahua System and Setup

Raby

n3wb
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Messages
20
Reaction score
1
Location
Palestine
Hi
I need to setup about 12 cameras and 5 intercoms around the Home
Requirements

1) 24/7 intercom camera record and Main answer Station for all 5 Intercoms (any suggestions for Intercom model ?)
2) WIzSense/AI Full color cameras (day and night - I am thinking of IPC-HFW3849T1-AS-PV)
3) setup the cameras and intercom on a different local network while being able to see the cameras outside of home.
4 ) separate POE switch (any suggestion)
5) 32ch NVR (any suggestion I am thinking NVR4432-4KS2 )
6) ability to Have NVR sperate from the POE switch so I can put the NVR next to the Screen , while the poe switches are in the same place.
7) ability to connect other cheap Wifi camera (mainly 2 wifi fisheye as I have no option for Wired fisheye).

And Finally , Can I use Blue Iris and still get all the WizSense Features ?

Thanks.
 

genelit

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
264
Reaction score
395
Location
Sweden
Hi Raby,
:welcome:

Here are some answers to get the discussion started.
1.) -
2.) You should search the forum for this camera. Everyone is not perfectly happy with it, there are loads of cameras that are way better.
Here's a comparison i did recently, between 3 Full Color cameras. One of them is the 3549-AS-PV.

3.) -
4.) I like the Netgear GS116PP, It's a budget friendly Switch that perform good. It's available as a 8P as well.
5.) I'm a fan of the 5232, a lot of bang for the buck. Reach out to @EMPIRETECANDY and he can give you a good price for it. The 5 series is way better than the 4-series to a minimum price difference.
6.) If you want the NVR next to a screen then you should go with a NVR without POE-ports as they not running as loud as the POE-ones are. That's why I bought a non-POE NVR recently.
7.) That's no problem as long of the cameras at least support ONVIF (or RTSP).
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,210
Reaction score
49,118
Location
USA
Welcome!

The IPC-HFW3849T1-AS-PV would be a poor choice as it is not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio - and then they are full color on top of it. Forget about it unless you have stadium quality light at night. More on this in a minute.

There are many threads here discussing how poor of a camera choice that is. Here are two to get you started:



Let's start at the beginning so you do not purchase twelve of the wrong cameras!

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. Based on what you are showing, unless you mount lower, fixed cams will only be good overview points but not IDENTIFY capable.

It is why we recommend to purchase one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

A few other tips....It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

While we are at it, let's make sure you get the right camera...

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.


1639680440410.png




My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well. These cameras meet all your requirements.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes unless it is a PTZ or varifocal that can "flatten the angle by optically zooming further out) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Starlight and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

A full color camera that needs an LED light and the camera cannot see infrared, so make sure that is the right camera for your needs. It will need the white LED on at night to work or you need a lot of ambient light. I have a Full Color type camera and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and it actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location. But without some light, a camera with IR capability is the safer bet.

We recommend a purchase of one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

Regarding an NVR
, if you want to ensure compatibility, you should match camera brand to NVR brand. Even with ONVIF compliant cams, there could still be things not working. If you plan to mix/match then you should look at something else like Blue Iris.

WizSense is just a marketing name for capabilities on the camera. They are all ONVIF triggers and you can bring them in to Blue Iris just fine. The one difference between an NVR and BI though will be that with the NVR you could search by events based on human or vehicle, whereas in BI they are simply alerts, unless you add DeepStack to the mix.

Regarding cheap wifi cameras, we strongly recommend you avoid them.

Wifi routers are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras through a wifi router. At the very least it can slow down your system.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a wifi camera and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

The same issue applies even with the hard-wired cameras trying to send all this non-buffer video stream through a router. Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues. The consumer routers are just not designed for this kind of traffic even a GB speed router.

You need power to the camera correct? So go with a powerline adapter that allows you to send the video data over your electric wires - it will be more stable and a better option than wifi.
 

Raby

n3wb
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Messages
20
Reaction score
1
Location
Palestine
@wittaj Great and much needed Info.
the thing is , only 4 cameras are at around 7 feet height , all the other are 2 stories high , so mainly I can use only 4 cameras for Identifying.
so let's say (for now) I want to go HikVision , as I saw ds-2cd2087g2 (8mp colorvu and 1/1.2" sensor).
I did not see any Hikvision NVR that will give me 2 ethernet ports so I can link it with separate POE switches.
1 port will be directly to the POE switch , and the Other will be for internet access.
and let's say that I want stuff future proof and mix camera manufacture , I need to use BLUE IRIS , will BLUE IRIS and a new PC be more cost effective than a NVR ?

Also very important question , is there a phone app to help me choose the needed FOV for the cameras , for example if I take a picture using the phone when it is placed the wall where the camera should be mounted,
then I use this app to show me what is the covered area base on the FOV (that way I can have a basic idea of the needed lens type / FOV).
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,210
Reaction score
49,118
Location
USA
A 2.8mm camera installed 2 stories high will be useless. A 2.8mm for IDENTIFY is within 13 feet. You will lose that entire distance just vertically. Someone could be one foot from your house but 17 feet below the camera and all you will see is a top of head.

It is easy to get lured in to thinking the wide angle "see the whole neighborhood" because you are watching it and you see a neighbor go by and you are like "Look at that I can tell that is Heather out walking." and "Yeah I can tell our neighbor 4 down just passed by". Or you watch back the video of you walking around and are like "yeah I can tell that is me".

Little do we realize how much WE can identify a known person just by hair style, clothing, walking pace, gait, etc.

Then one day the door checker comes by. Total stranger. Totally useless video other than what time the door checking happened.

Then you realize that this wide-angle see the whole neighborhood comes at a cost and that cost is not being able to IDENTIFY who did it. These 2.8mm wide angle cameras are great overview cameras or to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet of the camera. At 40 feet out you need a different camera.

So then we start adding more cameras and varifocal cameras so that we can optically zoom in to pinch points and other areas of interest to get the clean IDENTIFY captures of someone. While the varifocals are great at helping to identify at a distance, they come at a cost of a reduced field of view, just like the wide-angles are great at seeing a wide area, but they come at the expense of IDENTIFY at distance.

With an NVR that only has one port, you would connect everything to a switch and then one cable from that switch to the NVR.

I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.

You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal (the bandwidth is can process is a huge limiting factor), and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...

Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...

There isn't really a phone app to figure out focal points. It is simply a matter of getting the right one for the distance you want to cover. Use my distance guide above to help determine which cameras you need.

The Dahua 5442 series is the most flexible of camera manufacturers in terms of providing cameras to fit most distance requirements. But as you see, even beyond 60 feet, then you need to look at other options.
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,697
Location
New Jersey
IPVM Camera Calculator

Again, mounting cameras higher than 7.5 feet is counter productive. At two stories, say 15 feet or a little higher, all you get is the tops of heads when they're up close and not enough deatil when they're far enough away to see a face unless you're using a lot of optical zoom and a lot of cameras since the field of view reduces as zoom increases.
 
Top