2nd Amendment thread

TonyR

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You bring up some good points in this. The author certainly was restricting his discussion primarily to physical force presented in the moment, as in a mugging.

The concept of economic force is another discussion that must be held though. Bringing that up reminded me of the tyrannical tactics utilized by Trudeau against trucker-protestors and the funding mechanisms supporting them. How far away are we from a time when we MUST comply with woke philosophies or we risk a bank deciding they will not provide services? Some internet companies "filter" email ads from gun and ammo companies because THEY have decided they don't want their internet customers to have access to it. These kinds of examples represent a direct threat on Liberty. Sadly, a famous person in history provided commentary on what the tree of Liberty needs every so often, and that leads us right back to guns. Those who would take guns, would extinguish the tree of Liberty for others. It literally is the stuff of massive rapid uprisings resulting in war. Hope and pray that cooler and more-rational heads prevail.
Yessir.....
  • Dumped my Bank of Omaha NRA Visa when they quit endorsing the NRA. And I made sure the CSA that took my call knew why, too.
  • Withdrew all accounts from Wells Fargo when they quit offering credit card services to businesses that sold firearms, ammo, or knives. Told them why as well.
  • Quit watching SNL in 2015 after 40 years.
  • Haven't watched an NFL or NBA game in 4 years.
  • Haven't tuned in to ESPN, ABC or any Disney affiliate in 3.
  • Born and raised in Atlanta, home of Coca Cola, drank Coke all my life....quit last year, including all Coke products.
Sure it didn't bother or hurt them, just something I felt like doing and you know what? I haven't missed a thing, didn't affect my life negatively one bit.....life is good!
 

OICU2

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Yessir.....
  • Dumped my Bank of Omaha NRA Visa when they quit endorsing the NRA. And I made sure the CSA that took my call knew why, too.
  • Withdrew all accounts from Wells Fargo when they quit offering credit card services to businesses that sold firearms, ammo, or knives. Told them why as well.
  • Quit watching SNL in 2015 after 40 years.
  • Haven't watched an NFL or NBA game in 4 years.
  • Haven't tuned in to ESPN, ABC or any Disney affiliate in 3.
  • Born and raised in Atlanta, home of Coca Cola, drank Coke all my life....quit last year, including all Coke products.
Sure it didn't bother or hurt them, just something I felt like doing and you know what? I haven't missed a thing, didn't affect my life negatively one bit.....life is good!
If more people (the "silent majority") did similar things like this, it would make a huge difference. But most everybody in that group are too busy or too lazy and don't give a shit until its too late.
 

Living the Life

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It was a woman.... true story. She didnt check the door behind her when she closed it. She had unlocked it.
What she specifically did was prop open the door with a rock. Then when the shooter came on campus, she claims she kicked away the rock and closed the door, but it didn't lock. (Probably because there were still flakes or dirt from the rock in the bottom of the door frame that prevented it closing all the way, assuming that she is telling the truth in the first place.)

The school district better get ready to write some very, very large checks to a lot of families. There is zero justification for propping open any locked door with a rock. This a classic example of why even basic security measures are useless when circumvented by someone unwilling to follow them.
 

Smilingreen

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What she specifically did was prop open the door with a rock. Then when the shooter came on campus, she claims she kicked away the rock and closed the door, but it didn't lock. (Probably because there were still flakes or dirt from the rock in the bottom of the door frame that prevented it closing all the way, assuming that she is telling the truth in the first place.)

The school district better get ready to write some very, very large checks to a lot of families. There is zero justification for propping open any locked door with a rock. This a classic example of why even basic security measures are useless when circumvented by someone unwilling to follow them.
Most buildings, if there is a door that is to remain shut and locked, except only in emergency use, especially one that goes directly outside, usually has a magnetic sensor on it that will detect any time the door is opened and will set off an alarm at least, in the central office. How can you prop a door open with a rock and not set the alarm off.......unless you cheated the sensor?
 
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Most buildings, if there is a door that is to remain shut and locked, except only in emergency use, especially one that goes directly outside, usually has a magnetic sensor on it that will detect any time the door is opened and will set off an alarm at least, in the central office.
From what I have read, none of the accounts state fully what happened. At first, the police stated that they observed her on video propping the door open with a rock and the shooter came in. Now they say that she kicked the rock out and the door shut but did not lock. Probably did not close all the way. Is there video? Not read that there is.

So why did she prop the door out back open and go outside? My guess, to smoke. I used to see this all the time in offices that I worked in that did not allow you to smoke inside. Rather than going out a normal entrance and everyone see you leave to smoke, some people opted to go out a door that is not normally used for entering, like out back, and therefore had to be propped open else the person would have to walk all the way around to the front entrance.

If she is a teacher and left to smoke, she probably gave the kids something easy to do, like coloring to keep them quiet and occupied, especially since it was the last few days of school. If this is the case, and I am just speculating here, then she probably was not allowed to leave her class alone.

Another thing, did the shooter go directly to that door? Or did he try other doors and they were locked?

As far as a sensor on the door, they probably do have contact sensors for an alarm system. But it may only be used after hours, may not alert during the day, or may have just not been working.
 

Smilingreen

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From what I have read, none of the accounts state fully what happened. At first, the police stated that they observed her on video propping the door open with a rock and the shooter came in. Now they say that she kicked the rock out and the door shut but did not lock. Probably did not close all the way. Is there video? Not read that there is.

So why did she prop the door out back open and go outside? My guess, to smoke. I used to see this all the time in offices that I worked in that did not allow you to smoke inside. Rather than going out a normal entrance and everyone see you leave to smoke, some people opted to go out a door that is not normally used for entering, like out back, and therefore had to be propped open else the person would have to walk all the way around to the front entrance.

If she is a teacher and left to smoke, she probably gave the kids something easy to do, like coloring to keep them quiet and occupied, especially since it was the last few days of school. If this is the case, and I am just speculating here, then she probably was not allowed to leave her class alone.

Another thing, did the shooter go directly to that door? Or did he try other doors and they were locked?

As far as a sensor on the door, they probably do have contact sensors for an alarm system. But it may only be used after hours, may not alert during the day, or may have just not been working.
I highly doubt any video will ever be released, unless it is professionally altered. The story just doesn't add up. If someone has a firearm and is actively shooting and running towards you and you duck back into the building quickly and slam the door, what is the very first thing you do? You pull on that SOB to make sure it is latched and locked. Car doors, house doors, doesn't make any difference. Everyone checks to make sure the door is latched, unless you are a major space cadet. They said she called 911, also. Should be interesting to hear the 911 recordings, too.......or was their recorder out of service that day? That attorney is already muddying up the waters, which is what she hired him to do. Interesting to look at the lawyers "Notable Victories" he has posted on his site. He represents some real scum.
 
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Living the Life

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Another thing, did the shooter go directly to that door? Or did he try other doors and they were locked?
It's possible that the shooter saw the open door when he first arrived and headed straight towards it, assuming it would be unlocked. Or it is possible that the door was never actually closed in the first place. The teacher saw someone with a gun headed towards her, panicked, and ran. It is really difficult to get a straight story in situations like this until some time has passed.

But I think your assumption that the teacher was smoking outside is probably spot on. It was probably something she'd done hundreds of times before, and I'll bet many others working at the school had done likewise.
 

Living the Life

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The story just doesn't add up. If someone has a firearm and is actively shooting and running towards you and you duck back into the building quickly and slam the door, what is the very first thing you do? You pull on that SOB to make sure it is latched and locked.
My guess is that she was outside, with the door propped open by the rock. She saw the shooter, panicked, pulled open the door, and ran inside without kicking the rock out of the way. By the time she realized her mistake, it was far too late.
 

Smilingreen

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11:27 a.m. - Video footage shows a teacher at Robb Elementary propping open an exterior door. Ramos reportedly entered through this door.

11:28 a.m. - Ramos’ vehicle crashes near the school. A teacher ran back to a classroom to get a phone and left the door open. Two men, at a nearby funeral home, made their way to the crash scene where they saw Ramos exit the vehicle from the passenger side with a gun and backpack. The witnesses reportedly began running and Ramos tried shooting at them.

11:30 a.m. - 911 receives a phone call that there was a man who crashed his vehicle and has a gun.

11:31 a.m. - Ramos “reaches the last row of vehicles in the school parking lot,” McCraw said. The 18-year-old began shooting at the school, while police responded to the funeral home. McCraw adds that previous statements that officers confronted Ramos were inaccurate, and that an officer who heard the 911 call “drove immediately to the area he thought was the man with the gun, to the back of the school, which turned out to be a teacher.” McCraw said the officer drove by the suspect, who was “hunkered down behind a vehicle.”

11:32 a.m. - Ramos fires multiple shots at the school from outside, then enters the building.

11:33 a.m. - Ramos begins shooting in a classroom. McCraw says audio evidence from video footage shows Ramos shooting over 100 rounds.

11:35 a.m. - Three officers enter the school through the same doors that Ramos reportedly entered. Later, four more officers joined. The initial three officers were shot at, and some were grazed by bullets. Ramos shut the door to the classroom. 11:37 a.m. - Over 16 rounds are fired.

11:51 a.m. - More police begin to arrive.

12:03 p.m. - As many as 19 police officers were in the hallway outside the classroom. McCraw said they believed the active shooter situation had transitioned into a barricaded person call. A female caller dialed 911 from the classroom. The length of the call was less than 90 seconds. She said her name and said she was in classroom 112.

12:10 p.m. - The caller tells 911 that multiple people were dead.

12:13 p.m. - The female calls 911 again.

12:15 p.m. - More technicians arrive with shields.

12:16 p.m. - Female calls 911 again, adding that eight to nine students are still alive.
 

rolibr24

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Yessir.....
  • Dumped my Bank of Omaha NRA Visa when they quit endorsing the NRA. And I made sure the CSA that took my call knew why, too.
  • Withdrew all accounts from Wells Fargo when they quit offering credit card services to businesses that sold firearms, ammo, or knives. Told them why as well.
  • Quit watching SNL in 2015 after 40 years.
  • Haven't watched an NFL or NBA game in 4 years.
  • Haven't tuned in to ESPN, ABC or any Disney affiliate in 3.
  • Born and raised in Atlanta, home of Coca Cola, drank Coke all my life....quit last year, including all Coke products.
Sure it didn't bother or hurt them, just something I felt like doing and you know what? I haven't missed a thing, didn't affect my life negatively one bit.....life is good!
1. Never had a bank of Omaha card, never will.
2. Never had a Wells Fargo account, never will
3. Never got into SNL, never will
4. Never watched more than 10 minutes combined in my life of any sports event, I’ll keep it that way.
5. Never watched ESPN, we watch zero TV in our house. I’d guess this year our family has had the TV on less than a hour. Everything on TV is garbage.
6. This one hit me the hardest. Coke Zero was always my pop of choice. My wife loves Diet Coke. When they went woke, that was the last time our family ever bought anything coke related.
My struggle is around here every fountain pop machine is only coke products. When I want a pop I now spend the extra and buy Pepsi or Dr Pepper bottles of pop.

My family will not spend any money on any company who publicly goes woke.

I just hope Sailor Jerry, Makers Mark and Knob Creek never go woke. If that is ever the case I encourage everyone to buy stock because all is lost at that point and the only thing left is to numb the pain because there is no hope for this country
 

Smilingreen

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1. Never had a bank of Omaha card, never will.
2. Never had a Wells Fargo account, never will
3. Never got into SNL, never will
4. Never watched more than 10 minutes combined in my life of any sports event, I’ll keep it that way.
5. Never watched ESPN, we watch zero TV in our house. I’d guess this year our family has had the TV on less than a hour. Everything on TV is garbage.
6. This one hit me the hardest. Coke Zero was always my pop of choice. My wife loves Diet Coke. When they went woke, that was the last time our family ever bought anything coke related.
My struggle is around here every fountain pop machine is only coke products. When I want a pop I now spend the extra and buy Pepsi or Dr Pepper bottles of pop.

My family will not spend any money on any company who publicly goes woke.

I just hope Sailor Jerry, Makers Mark and Knob Creek never go woke. If that is ever the case I encourage everyone to buy stock because all is lost at that point and the only thing left is to numb the pain because there is no hope for this country
"every fountain pop machine"

Gawd, I haven't heard that terminology in about 35 years. Pop is a Northern thing. :lol:
 

Smilingreen

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The school district had a very firm policy on keeping all doors closed and locked at all times. That is why the Lawyer is trying to muddy the Reality vs. BS story narrative as fast as he can. The more different stories he can quickly get spread via the media, the better chance he has of getting his client off on a technicality. That teacher is going to get a bunch of civil lawsuits pressed against her.



  • LOCKED CLASSROOM DOOR POLICY – Teachers are instructed to keep their classroom doors closed and locked at all times. Barriers are not to be used. Substitutes shall follow the same policy, with campuses ensuring they have access to the classrooms they need throughout the day. The Standard Response Protocol procedures are on the back of all of our badges issued to substitute teachers.
 

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Smilingreen

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Michigan, one of the top 10 worst states in the union.

We’ve been trying for years to have Canada annex Detroit but even the Canadians want nothing to do with that place.
I was born & raised in northern Illinois. Moved down here to the great south east about 32 years ago. Everything down here is "Coke". Wut kinda coke do you want, darlin? Coke, diet coke, Pepsi, Mt. Dew, 7-up or arnge drink? I do remember buying Vernors when I lived up there.
 
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