2023 Dahua Best Buy Choices

[Perimeter]

I am still in the process to pick cameras. But despite Dahua having such a huge portfolio of models, only a few of them seem to be really worth considering because they offer excellent performance due to lens and sensor size at an acceptable price point.
So I list the models that currently seem to be the top performers that one would select for best night performance. I only call the turret versions.
If I miss something important or get it wrong, please point to it. (I have not included licence plate cams)

1. Sufficient light present with f = 1.0 lens
IPC-HDW5449TM-SE-LED (4MP) (close focus distance starts at 1.6m for 2.8mm) (I had 2.8mm and 3.6mm side by side, 3.6mm is less sharp even at 4m! I am not happy with it.)
IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED (8MP) (close focus distance starts at 5m for 2.8mm)
IPC-PDW5849-A180-E2-AST (180°, 2x4MP) (close focus distance starts at 3,6m)

2. Sufficient light present with f = 1.0 lens and infrared option
IPC-HDW5449H-ASE-D2 (close focus distance starts at 4m for 2.8mm) Many reports of focus issues seem to make this lens less attractive than specs suggest. Too bad really.

3. Infrared night vision
IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE (available also in 6mm) (close focus distance starts at 1.3m for 2.8mm)

4. Varifocal infrared night vision
IPC-HDW5442T-ZE (close focus distance starts at 1.2m)

If sufficient light is available, the two first models serve different purposes. The 5449 LED S2 2.8mm can get much closer to the action without getting blurry. So getting the 5849 may not be an automatic choice.

As far as I understand it, the 5449-D2 is basically a 5449-LED with an extra infrared cam strapped to it. So you get the f=1.0 lens if there is light, and a good 1/1.8" infrared cam, if there isn't. Unfortunately, the nearpoint is pushed out quite a bit by this addition (parallax problems?).

If it were not for the large minimum focal distance of the 5449-D2 model, the 5442 ASE would be a lesser choice. But if things happen under 4 meters and it is (to stay) dark, they are the best choices available.

If a smaller fov is required, the f=1.0 LED options run out. There is a 6.0mm IR IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE and the IPC-HDW5442T-ZE which offers only slightly more zoom than the ASE 6mm, but loses some light for this.

If the 5449-D2 lens would offer a better depth of field, it would be almost an automatic choice as it offers f=1.0 on ideal sensor to MP ratio joined with the best of IR. It could be so nice... BUT... many report focus issues!

So, what are your thoughts?

 

[CanCuba]

I am still in the process to pick cameras. But despite Dahua having such a huge portfolio of models, only a few of them seem to be really worth considering because they offer excellent performance due to lens and sensor size at an acceptable price point.
So I list the models that currently seem to be the top performers that one would select for general purposes. I only call the turret versions.
If I miss something important or get it wrong, please point to it. (I have not included licence plate cams)

1. Sufficient light present with f = 1.0 lens
IPC-HDW5449TM-SE-LED (4MP)
IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED (8MP)
IPC-PDW5849-A180-E2-AST (180°, 2x4MP)

2. Sufficient light present with f = 1.0 lens and infrared option
IPC-HDW5449H-ASE-D2

3. Infrared night vision
IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE (available also in 6mm)

4. Varifocal infrared night vision
IPC-HDW5442T-ZE

If sufficient light is available, the two first models serve different purposes. The 5449 can get much closer to the action without getting blurry. So getting the 5849 may not be an automatic choice.

As far as I understand it, the 5449-D2 is basically a 5449-LED with an extra infrared cam strapped to it. So you get the f=1.0 lens if there is light, and a good 1/1.8" infrared cam, if there isn't. Unfortunately, the nearpoint is pushed out quite a bit by this addition (parallax problems?).

If it were not for the large minimum focal distance of the 5449-D2 model, the 5442 ASE would be a lesser choice. But if things happen under 4 meters and it is (to stay) dark, they are the only models available.

If a smaller fov is required, the f=1.0 LED options run out. There is a 6.0mm IR IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE and the IPC-HDW5442T-ZE wich offers only slightly more zoom than the ASE 6mm, but loses some light for this.

If the 5449-D2 lens would offer a better depth of field, it would be almost an automatic choice as it offers f=1.0 on ideal sensor to MP ratio joined with the best of IR. It could be so nice... BUT...

So, what are your thoughts?

I think my next buy will be a 5449-D2. I have a spot that has enough light to get colour but not enough to for a decent shutter speed. I think having the IR image with the colour for better ID will be helpful.

 

[Perimeter]

I think my next buy will be a 5449-D2. I have a spot that has enough light to get colour but not enough to for a decent shutter speed. I think having the IR image with the colour for better ID will be helpful.

You have the distance it requires?

 

[CanCuba]

You have the distance it requires?

Yup. The circled area across the street is very well lit at night. The half box on the lower left will be well-lit. The intersection itself isn't. Just need to trim the tree on the left and the palm tree on the right as they're starting to blow out the image with IR on at night. Constant battle with the foliage as it grows year round and we've had some decent rain this year.





If the camera's IR falls a bit short, I have a 10 watt IR illuminator I'm not using which would go well here.

 

[Perimeter]

I am actually quite tempted to get some "cutting edge" technology too. I just wish I knew what to make of the focal problem.
In some other thread, I wrote this:
I don't quite know how the depth of field (dof) is judged. From my naive and optimistic understanding this would be the case:
If you have two cameras with identical optics and identical sensor size, yet different in number of pixels (say 8MP vs 4MP), you should get different dof statements. The dof of the 4MP camera should be better (wider) than that of the 8MP camera. This is because at the lower end of the dof, the 4MP cam has a pixel size comparable to the blur disc size. The 4MP cannot detect the remaining blur (hence sharp) due to lack of pixel resolution while an 8MP sensor could (hence blurred). So for any given optic, an increase in sensor resolution (not size) will lead to a decrease in dof. The picture of the 8MP will likely be about as good as the 4MP picture at the lowest focal range of the 4 MP camera. But not better - the advantage of the higher resolution is lost due to blur at this distance.
That is how I understand the problem.

So perhaps, if you buy an f=1.0 camera with a far dof, you will get an image that is as good as the 4MP cams go while the target is too close, and a better image than the 4MP cams once the target is further away. But I am not really willing to wager $200+ to find out if this is true or not.

 

[CanCuba]

I have one 4K camera, Color4K/X, that I'm happy with but I see now that 4K is overkill for my application. Even 4MP seems overkill but as long as the camera has a 1/1.8" sensor, I'm fine with paying around $200 for a camera with SMD, face detection and deep IVS.

Next big upgrade will be to move to Blue Iris. Just waiting to see if CodeProject can get Coral support on Windows or Docker. They have it running on RPi but an RPi costs about what a decent desktop does. I think Blue Iris and CP with Coral support will be a game changer for those of us really into face detection and facial recognition.

 

[Perimeter]

Just got a IPC-HDW5449TM-SE-LED 3.6mm. Specs say, close focus distance is 2.6m or 8.5ft. My impression is, the value is correct, can't get much closer. Which means that most of these cams are really only useful in a more distant overview position.

 

[CanCuba]

Just got a IPC-HDW5449TM-SE-LED. Specs say, close focus distance is 2.6m or 8.5ft. My impression is, the value is correct, can't get much closer. Which means that most of these cams are really only useful in a more distant overview position.

So it's about perfect for what I have in mind in the above picture?

 

[Perimeter]

It isn't the D2, Andy can't ship from Honkong, no stock. The D2 requires 4m! This one only needs 2.6m. That is one floor height.

Imho these f=1.0 lenses need a manual focus adjustment.

 

[CanCuba]

It isn't the D2, Andy can't ship from Honkong, no stock. The D2 requires 4m! This one only needs 2.6m. That is one floor height.

Imho these f=1.0 lenses need a manual focus adjustment.

No stock. Not good. Hope the D2 isn't EOL.

How are so many cameras making it out of the factory out of focus? It's a pain in the ass to focus these things and shouldn't be necessary.

 

[Perimeter]

How are so many cameras making it out of the factory out of focus?

The problem I address here is not the camera being out of focus. It isn't. It is the price to pay for optimizing all other parameters (sensor size, aperature, turret camera). The close focus distance is so high, because the lens is basically focused up to infinity at the far end. And if you want to give up depth at the far end, you only gain limited depth at the front end. Dahua has been pushing the limit in many ways already.
Moving the dof towards the camera turns it into a pancake:

 

[Perimeter]

How are so many cameras making it out of the factory out of focus? It's a pain in the ass to focus these things and shouldn't be necessary.

After working a bit more on my new IPC-HDW5449TM-SE-LED 3.6mm, I must agree with you. It is out of focus. I set it up next to my 2.8mm of the same series, and even at 4m and above, it is less clear than the 2.8mm. Despite having a bigger image, the 2.8mm is better for recognition.

It's a pain in the ass to focus these things and shouldn't be necessary.

How do you do it? Because I suspect that is what I will have to do. It is a turret model.

 

[CanCuba]

After working a bit more on my new IPC-HDW5449TM-SE-LED 3.6mm, I must agree with you. It is out of focus. I set it up next to my 2.8mm of the same series, and even at 4m and above, it is less clear than the 2.8mm. Despite having a bigger image, the 2.8mm is better for recognition.


How do you do it? Because I suspect that is what I will have to do. It is a turret model.

I've only done bullets and a BoobieCam. I'd suggest just start taking it apart and see what you find.

The bullets were a bit difficult as the camera had to be in a semi-disassembled state to be connected for getting the focus dialed in.

Hopefully, a turret is a bit easier.

 

[flynreelow]

@EMPIRETECANDY

whats the best turret out there in 2023. varifocal a plus. the one with the better sensor?

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

IPC-T54IR-ZE S3 (IPC-T5442T-ZE S3)

 

[flynreelow]

IPC-T54IR-ZE S3 (IPC-T5442T-ZE S3)

link in stock?

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Amazon.com : EmpireTech 4MP Ultra Low Light IP Camera,Starlight IR Motorized 2.7mm-12mm Lens Turret Camera,IP67,Built-in Mic,Support POE and ePOE,Vehicle and Human Detection,S3 Version IPC-T54IR-ZE White : Electronics

have 4 on it, stocks is a little tight, more on the way, next week will have good stocks arrive at amazon.

 

[flynreelow]

Amazon.com : EmpireTech 4MP Ultra Low Light IP Camera,Starlight IR Motorized 2.7mm-12mm Lens Turret Camera,IP67,Built-in Mic,Support POE and ePOE,Vehicle and Human Detection,S3 Version IPC-T54IR-ZE White : Electronics

have 4 on it, stocks is a little tight, more on the way, next week will have good stocks arrive at amazon.

is this the same cam.... (this one says s3) and the amazon one doesnt

EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight 2.7mm–12mm Var

The EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 offers advanced features such as a 4MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, 40 m max. illumination distance with integrated IR LED, deep learning algorithms for face and object recognition, 512GB Micro SD card slot, built-in microphone, IP67 rating, and SMD 3.0 support.

empiretech01.com

 

[wittaj]

is this the same cam.... (this one says s3) and the amazon one doesnt

EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight 2.7mm–12mm Var

The EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 offers advanced features such as a 4MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, 40 m max. illumination distance with integrated IR LED, deep learning algorithms for face and object recognition, 512GB Micro SD card slot, built-in microphone, IP67 rating, and SMD 3.0 support.

empiretech01.com

I see S3 in both of the listings.

 

[flynreelow]

I see S3 in both of them.

s3 = SMD 3 ?