1/1.8" cameras at night

[RJM_50]

With these larger image sensors, if there is adequate street lights is it okay to leave them in color mode for LPR at night, or does LPR require the B&W infrared LEDs to capture correctly at night?

EmpireTech cameras for each direction of travel:
IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8 4MP image sensor 2.8-12mm lens
IPC-B54IR-Z4E-S3 1/1.8 4MP image sensor 8-32mm lens

Anyone have success with leaving 1/1.8 in color mode at night? If you have to run B&W infrared LEDs, what settings do you run differently than a 1/2.8 camera? What settings do you adjust differently with the larger sensor? (1/1.8 is such a superior camera image sensor, combined with a varifocal optical zoom lens is magnificent even if it can't do 60FPS)

EDIT: This are residential enthusiast LPR cameras recording to my Synology Surveillance Station system.
My first trial at LPR failed badly

 

[Flintstone61]

I have a very bright LED street light that was updated 2-3 years ago from Sodium.....but it depends on how the car moves through that light. Some are going straight and some are turning. Some are moving away, and some are coming with headlights on. Headlights washout color night mode from some angles. for that reason i have higher success in Black n White with IR at night to compensate for all the variables that Color mode can't handle.
If you have a tight choke zone where cars are uniformly moving thru a specific area, you maybe be able to tune for night color, but shutter speed in color isnt as forgiving. I use an overview color cam for this area, and then night IR....
My neighborhood is so lame, My latest pic below is just color for identification of whats coming past the other LPR 5442-Z4E
Settings on 1/1.8 for me, have been much easier than with a 1/2.8 Z12E cam. i have captured plates at 1/500, 1/1000, & 1/2000 shutter speeds, with practically default settings except for focus. Finding the sweet spot for Focus on LPR in a given situation can be frustrating. I have taken a page from another guy here and used reflectorized tape in the scene to adjust/tweak the lens.
I have even used a Range of shutter speed rather than fixed, with an AUTO setting for DAY /NIGHT so the cam can switch from day plate reading to night plate reading with no user intervention.

 

[wittaj]

The only way to know is to give it a try. With the newer S3 version of the 5442 series it is possible under the right conditions.

 

[Flintstone61]

Here are some examples of reflectorized tape to aid the focus. I don't really use that far left one in first pic, because it was for the 5231 Z12E.
but looking in the dark back yard with the other Z4 bullet i needed to play with how I focused on that reflector tape until I found the setting with the most success.

 

[Flintstone61]

 

[Teken]

Here are some examples of reflectorized tape to aid the focus. I don't really use that far left one in first pic, because it was for the 5231 Z12E.
but looking in the dark back yard with the other Z4 bullet i needed to play with how I focused on that reflector tape until I found the setting with the most success.

View attachment 193061
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Random question, why do you have the two time stamps in use? Is the camera vs BI not enough or was there some outside factor that needed both to be embedded into the video?

 

[The Automation Guy]

My gut feeling says that IR is always going to produce better results. First, not every car is going to have working license plate lights. Even if the street is relatively bright, I think the lack of a license plate light will greatly hamper the ability to capture good plates with ambient light alone. Second, I think it would be very easy to over expose brake light which can cause blooming (look at Flintstone's first picture as an example) which again would hamper the ability to capture good plates.

So while you might get adequate color results, I think IR will be better. Leave the color cameras for the "overview" and IR for the tight LPC.

 

[biggen]

You have to have very bright conditions to run color at night. I can do it for my business parking lot, but it's also bathed in very intense LED parking lot lighting from multiple directions. For my home, I run my LPR in BW.

 

[bigredfish]

^^^^^
Agree with both above. You like;y dont have as much light as you think, and you're going to spend a lot of time trying to get one good image only to find that each vehicle will be different with respect to plate lights, brake lights, tree shadows, other vehicle lights, etc and that you've wasted your time.

 

[wittaj]

Remember, the faster the shutter, the more light that is needed.

Certainly the newer chipsets are starting to reach the possibility of capturing plates in color with some light.

But the light has to be in the right places.

While I agree in the past that capturing plates in infrared was the best option, now with the 3M printed plates, that is making it more difficult.

If one is able to have enough light or figure out a way to get enough light, color is starting to lean towards the preferred if possible due to all these printed plates.

Gotcha 3M Printed Plates at Night - LPR

As many of us have experienced, and well documented in this thread, that the 3M printed plates, especially those with blue in them, are very difficult to get with infrared. Unlike the stamped/raised plates, these printed plates do not have the same reflective properties and the flat nature of...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[samplenhold]

Do not try and do too much with one cam. I understand the desire to get plates and car info at night hence trying to do color at night. It is best to have one cam dedicated to plates ONLY and a second, overview cam for car info. That one can be run in color at night. See these threads.

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Flintstone61]

Random question, why do you have the two time stamps in use? Is the camera vs BI not enough or was there some outside factor that needed both to be embedded into the video?

no special reason. other than to see when one of them goes "off the reservation" and begins reporting DST or isn't syncing w/Net Time/ I think as i recall one of them disappears when you export video to a file.....Or something.
my OCD might have OCD.

 

[RJM_50]

Here are some examples of reflectorized tape to aid the focus. I don't really use that far left one in first pic, because it was for the 5231 Z12E.
but looking in the dark back yard with the other Z4 bullet i needed to play with how I focused on that reflector tape until I found the setting with the most success.

View attachment 193061
View attachment 193062
View attachment 193063

Are those reflectors in your neighbors yards? How did you ask them to place a reflector on their pole? (I would have to use their mailbox in my tight Field of View I'm zoomed into.

 

[RJM_50]

Is there an easy button or place to disable Auto-Focus? I had it in a good spot but I don't see a toggle to disable Auto-Focus. I know many cameras cycle the zoom lens and Auto-Focus after a regular reboot. All of my cameras do a daily reboot, but even if I change to weekly or monthly it's going to cycle the camera. Is late morning the best time for a reboot if I can't disable Auto-Focus?

I have a very bright LED street light that was updated 2-3 years ago from Sodium.....but it depends on how the car moves through that light. Some are going straight and some are turning. Some are moving away, and some are coming with headlights on. Headlights washout color night mode from some angles. for that reason i have higher success in Black n White with IR at night to compensate for all the variables that Color mode can't handle.
If you have a tight choke zone where cars are uniformly moving thru a specific area, you maybe be able to tune for night color, but shutter speed in color isnt as forgiving. I use an overview color cam for this area, and then night IR....
My neighborhood is so lame, My latest pic below is just color for identification of whats coming past the other LPR 5442-Z4E
Settings on 1/1.8 for me, have been much easier than with a 1/2.8 Z12E cam. i have captured plates at 1/500, 1/1000, & 1/2000 shutter speeds, with practically default settings except for focus. Finding the sweet spot for Focus on LPR in a given situation can be frustrating. I have taken a page from another guy here and used reflectorized tape in the scene to adjust/tweak the lens.
I have even used a Range of shutter speed rather than fixed, with an AUTO setting for DAY /NIGHT so the cam can switch from day plate reading to night plate reading with no user intervention.
View attachment 193056View attachment 193057View attachment 193058View attachment 193059
View attachment 193060

I need to double check my settings and post screenshots for others to determine my sanity or stupidity.

I reset all defaults, and made a dual DAY/NIGHT profile with very few changes for the day (default shutter speed), and it was successful capturing plates early afternoon. I made the night profile with more adjustments (1/1000 shutter speed and HLC)... BUT, it's almost midnight and the camera has not flipped to B&W Infrared, it's still in color mode. I'm not sure if my are actually in has enough street light to work in night color mode, or if I made a mistake in the DAY/NIGHT profile. I left the transition default setting 2 with a 6 second delay. I will have to check the footage tomorrow and see if it was able to capture licence plates in night color mode. I have 6 cameras on the house for general coverage, these 2 out at the street are dedicated for LPR. I probably made an error in the settings.

Before I made changes based on suggestions here it was a single profile, shutter speed was too high, but it was flipping to B&W Infrared at night with the same degat settings I did not alter.

 

[Flintstone61]

I have 2 systems running BI. None of the cameras EVER reboot. unless of course there is a power interuption, or I manually restart it while I'm present. this solves your "focus hunting" problem during transition.
I had a Helluva time learning to Dial in the Condo LPR cam with day and Night.
The Catalytic Converter Thief came in during a lowlight sunrise hour and the cam had switched back to DAY. No plate caught.
However the 6mm 5442 Caught it outback as I recall. Lucky for me I recognized the car from a 2-3AM prowl a week earlier that i had saved as suspicious and that night i had captured his plate in IR.
It was at this point, I setup a second cam as the over view ( color cam) 2.8mm 5442 and went 24/7 black& white w/IR on the 5241 Z12E bullet.
Then began a string of success unmatched in the world of LPR... ( He's lying) I was getting 99.9% of the plates in an enviable choke point.
Never even thought about color/day IR/ night anymore. Problem solved. Bad guys ID'ed, Law enforcement began rolling a patrol car up and issuing case #'s because I had good vehicle descriptions, and good Misbehavior video.
I would never use a Z12 in color again. the" Focus hunt" from Color/day Night /IR fucked me outta several plate captures. So if you stay IR/24/7 and never reboot it, you wont miss plates.
here are some plate captures with a corresponding overview cam. ( of note, I had 18 cams 6 looking at the parking lots so if I missed a car description in 1 cam the others would have some data for me.)
Note the camera time stamps being the same within the same second. (this can help LEO determine plate w description)

 

[Flintstone61]

Of course now with the 5442 Z4-E's I can get away with night/day captures, and the "focus hunt" is a non issue. But i can still miss plates during twilight hours because of this.
When i set my day and night settings up I temporarily use the " full Time" profile, then there are no greyed out menu options for illuminator, or COLOR/B&W.
When i get Both day and night completed using the Full Time Profile management, I switch the profile to day/night. Then you have to play with day time shutter speed so that it doesn't linger in lowlight before switching over to IR

 

[Flintstone61]

the other LPR isnt really on duty as LPR at the moment. but here are it's settings. Same exact cam as above but in totally different lighting situation.







Same car ( mine) day VS. Night color

 

[RJM_50]

My State does not have front plates, both of my cameras are mounted right at the curb to catch rear plates. My choke points are pretty good. With the right camera settings it's a guaranteed LPR capture. But my settings are still a little off, and it takes 24+ hours to take the advice, make changes, then review the results of the changes in footage. Color night mode was a complete failure, I need to find the fix for that.

1st camera is hidden inside the mailbox post for Northbound traffic:
2nd camera is camouflaged on a tree aimed 180° from the mailbox for Southbound traffic:
Here is the current daytime LPR update, it could use a little focus adjustment, and I need to check the night abilities when I get it fixed to use Infrared mode:

 

[biggen]

My State does not have front plates, both of my cameras are mounted right at the curb to catch rear plates. My choke points are pretty good. With the right camera settings it's a guaranteed LPR capture. But my settings are still a little off, and it takes 24+ hours to take the advice, make changes, then review the results of the changes in footage. Color night mode was a complete failure, I need to find the fix for that.

1st camera is hidden inside the mailbox post for Northbound traffic:
2nd camera is camouflaged on a tree aimed 180° from the mailbox for Southbound traffic:
Here is the current daytime LPR update, it could use a little focus adjustment, and I need to check the night abilities when I get it fixed to use Infrared mode:

The only fix for color at night is more lighting. As in, massive amounts of lighting. You won't be able to provide that much light in a neighborhood without drawing attention to your self. Forget about running color at night...

I can't get those imgur photos to load full size. You don't need to use an intermediate site to host your pics. Just drag and drop them right here when you reply to a message. They will upload directly to this site and we can easily view them. Just judging from the thumbnail with the two cars, you may need more zoom for LPR duties. I can't really tell since I can't load the full size pic.

 

[bigredfish]

Couple of thoughts

You should zoom in a bit more
On Day & night tab setting, Dont run this "the transition default setting 2 with a 6 second delay" Set it to fixed B&W"
Set Focus and Zoom menu to 'Manual" SAVE/Refresh, then go to the Focus/Zoom tab, set the speed to 1 and adjust the Focus slide to your ideal capture point with a plate/target in view