RG59 Heretic from PA
- Thread starter Timothy Wright
- Start date
alastairstevenson
Staff member
That happens every second day. In a virtual way, of course.
Welcome to the forum!
Welcome!
I feel like had you visited here first and done some research you might have been able to get a nicer system built on Blue Iris and some Dahua 2MP cameras that are quite good at night.
Not sure what the lighting is like where you will be installing, but if your problems occur at night, those 5MP will probably have a hard time seeing without substantial additional light, I know mine does.
I feel like had you visited here first and done some research you might have been able to get a nicer system built on Blue Iris and some Dahua 2MP cameras that are quite good at night.
Not sure what the lighting is like where you will be installing, but if your problems occur at night, those 5MP will probably have a hard time seeing without substantial additional light, I know mine does.
Q™
IPCT Contributor
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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unfortunately, the cameras will perform poorly at night. You need large sensors for good low light performance and you want to avoid domes. Read the cliff notes in the wiki.
fenderman
Staff member
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The title "starvis" on a sensors as little to no meaning. You have not told us the model you are using, but there is a very high probability that you dont have a camera that performs well at night. You made the mistake of chasing megapixels. Additionally the dome is the worst option for good nighttime images at they often suffer from IR reflection. There are 5mp sensors that perform well in low light, however, they are likely not in the cameras you purchased.
fenderman
Staff member
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Alibi is rebranded hikvision at a premium cost. Alibi does not provide the sensors size (deliberately) This is likely the unit you have and it has a 1/3 sensor.
https://us.hikvision.com/sites/default/files/thd_ds-2ce56h1t-avpit3z_080218na_0.pdf
I can tell you with certainty that it will perform poorly in low light and night. The proper test is not how it performs compared to your last system, it is how does it perform compared to other cameras on the market that cost the same (or even less).
Technology has improved. You just need to know what you are buying. It is very telling that they used a still shot (which is still not that great) on their youtube videos.
fenderman
Staff member
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You are a bit confused. Blue iris is a VMS and a complete replacement for a DVR/NVR. Its is much more powerful and customizable than any standalone unit could ever be. It also includes a web interface, but requires the server software to run.
STARVIS image sensors are great, but not all perform the same in low-light.
My 6MP STARVIS camera has a min lux rating of .3 lux.
My 2MP STARVIS camera has a min lux rating of .05 lux
Both cameras use STARVIS image sensors, but there’s def a diff between their low-light abilites.
The 2MP “only” has 2MP of pixels projecting down on a 1/2.8” sensor.
The 6MP has 3x as many pixels projecting down on a 1/2.9” sensor. That makes the physical size of each pixel on the sensor smaller than the size of 2MP worth of pixels projecting down on to a 1/2.8” sensor.
Bigger physical pixel size allows for more light to be collected per pixel which helps make a better low-light image especially when movement is involved.
It’s a great forum of folks here. Welcome!
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looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Welcome,
Don't reinvent the wheel, there are MANY folks here that have been down the path of educating themselves about all this, and have received the T-shirt.
Read and listen.
If all your stuff is still in the box's, I'd ship it all back to Amazon right now, then continue your education here.
Blue Iris runs circles around any NVR.
Blue Iris - Video Security Software
One example: Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
Don't reinvent the wheel, there are MANY folks here that have been down the path of educating themselves about all this, and have received the T-shirt.
Read and listen.
If all your stuff is still in the box's, I'd ship it all back to Amazon right now, then continue your education here.
Blue Iris runs circles around any NVR.
Blue Iris - Video Security Software
One example: Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
Q™
IPCT Contributor
It might be said that truthful manufacturer's YouTube videos and nearly as rare as unicorns.
fenderman
Staff member
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Dont be confused by amazon pricing. That price is a third party seller charging way too much. You were overcharged.
If you want to stick with coax, see the dahua CVI line. There are many posts by @bigredfish with dahua 2mp starlight CVI cameras. Dahua also has some low light 8mp cameras but you need to make sure you get the correct model number with the large 1/1.8" sensor, not the 1/2.5".
J Sigmo
Known around here
- Feb 5, 2018
- 996
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I really REALLY recommend seriously considering setting up a PC running Blue Iris rather than using any NVR.
The flexibility and capabilities are so far above what any NVR offers that I think you'll be very happy you went that way.
Next, I recommend IP cameras, especially POE IP cameras. That being done, to get to your question of what cameras would be better than the ones you just received. I think most folks here would recommend the Dahua 2 megapixel (1080P) starlight cameras.
Stay away from dome or bullet style. Try to get what are called "turret" or "eyeball" style cameras. They don't suffer from the spider web and internal reflection issues of the others.
I know this means sending back everything, and re-thinking it all. And that's a bummer. But if everything is still in its unopened boxes, it's well worth considering.
I learned the hard way myself. I bought a bunch of inexpensive cameras that work well in daylight, but are not very useful at night. I did go POE IP right off the bat, and got Blue Iris running right away.
But I didn't have a separate dedicated PC for Blue Iris until later. And that is also highly recommended. When I did later buy a separate PC for Blue Iris, transferring its license to the new PC was easy and smooth.
Get Fenderman to recommend a good refurb PC, and set that up with Blue Iris (BI), get a POE Ethernet switch with more ports than you think you will need, get an Asus router to make setting up Open VPN easy, get solid copper (not copper clad aluminum) Ethernet cable, and a bunch of 2MP Dahua Starlight cameras, and I don't see how you can go wrong.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
The flexibility and capabilities are so far above what any NVR offers that I think you'll be very happy you went that way.
Next, I recommend IP cameras, especially POE IP cameras. That being done, to get to your question of what cameras would be better than the ones you just received. I think most folks here would recommend the Dahua 2 megapixel (1080P) starlight cameras.
Stay away from dome or bullet style. Try to get what are called "turret" or "eyeball" style cameras. They don't suffer from the spider web and internal reflection issues of the others.
I know this means sending back everything, and re-thinking it all. And that's a bummer. But if everything is still in its unopened boxes, it's well worth considering.
I learned the hard way myself. I bought a bunch of inexpensive cameras that work well in daylight, but are not very useful at night. I did go POE IP right off the bat, and got Blue Iris running right away.
But I didn't have a separate dedicated PC for Blue Iris until later. And that is also highly recommended. When I did later buy a separate PC for Blue Iris, transferring its license to the new PC was easy and smooth.
Get Fenderman to recommend a good refurb PC, and set that up with Blue Iris (BI), get a POE Ethernet switch with more ports than you think you will need, get an Asus router to make setting up Open VPN easy, get solid copper (not copper clad aluminum) Ethernet cable, and a bunch of 2MP Dahua Starlight cameras, and I don't see how you can go wrong.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Actually, I've seen installers who mark up junk.
Very good cameras are available to consumers. But you as a consumer need to look past the "more is better" trap, try to avoid the desire for easy-answers, and do some studying. The result is you'll be greatly rewarded with a system that meets your needs at a fair price.
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Q™
IPCT Contributor
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Didn't read the cliff notes did ya? Or the links I provided above.
ALL of that info is contained in said cliff notes and in my links I posted above.
ALL of that info is contained in said cliff notes and in my links I posted above.
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Didn't read the cliff notes did ya? Or the links I provided above.
W O R D
J Sigmo
Known around here
- Feb 5, 2018
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Domes are not good outdoors because the plastic domes degrade from sunlight (UV damage) and sandblasting from wind. The domes also create internal reflections that can be especially vexing if you try to use any built-in IR illuminators, or the camera receives any light directly from other light sources. Thus, they're usually not good at night.
Indoors, they can work OK, but I still prefer a turret (eyeball) style for best optical quality and spider web resistance.
I have yet to see any 5 megapixel cameras that offer acceptable low-light performance. I'm sure there will eventually be better ones, but right now, the state of the art just isn't there in security cameras. The 2 MP Dahua starlights are the top end low-light cameras at this point in time.
For well-lit areas, the 5 MP units may be fine. But remember that they will also fill your hard drives faster and slow down your system.
And if you really do need that high level of pixel coverage to get better resolution, consider adding more strategically aimed and zoomed Starlight cams rather than trying to achieve the pixel-coverage with high pilel-count cameras. Keep in mind that the optics of the high pixel-count cameras may not be good enough to really utilize all of the pixels of their sensors.
Folks here have an enormous amount of combined experience with all of this. So it makes sense to seek their advice and take it to heart.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Indoors, they can work OK, but I still prefer a turret (eyeball) style for best optical quality and spider web resistance.
I have yet to see any 5 megapixel cameras that offer acceptable low-light performance. I'm sure there will eventually be better ones, but right now, the state of the art just isn't there in security cameras. The 2 MP Dahua starlights are the top end low-light cameras at this point in time.
For well-lit areas, the 5 MP units may be fine. But remember that they will also fill your hard drives faster and slow down your system.
And if you really do need that high level of pixel coverage to get better resolution, consider adding more strategically aimed and zoomed Starlight cams rather than trying to achieve the pixel-coverage with high pilel-count cameras. Keep in mind that the optics of the high pixel-count cameras may not be good enough to really utilize all of the pixels of their sensors.
Folks here have an enormous amount of combined experience with all of this. So it makes sense to seek their advice and take it to heart.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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ok dont listen to the advice given here. You obviously know better. Since you NEED 5mp domes that are going to be shit at night. "forensically" wont be worth anything. Keep your new kit and keep being blissfully ignorant. Why stop at 5mp when there are 12mp cameras and as you have pointed out to us, more megapixels are better despite HARD evidence to the contrary. I dont think you understand how camera sensors megpixels work or how to properly gather evidence for your "jury".
You can lead a horse to water.
ADI wont sell to you.
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