Would dual-lens be suitable for this scene?

[Madz]

I was excited about the marketing material for the dual-lens cameras (eg HFW-5449TI-ASE-D2) - thinking it might be a good solution for me to cover the area outside our front gate, as there is no ambient/street light there at all and I don't want to place a constant light source there - however I would like colour for identification purposes if for example I motion triggered some sort of light (either built into the camera or separately).

I've been reading some of the early review threads on here about them though and there seemed to be a number of issues around lens alignment, mismatch between sensor size etc which I suspect they will probably iron out over time - made me think maybe I need to wait for v2... however.... I need to get a camera in place now so I thought I'd see a number of months in how people feel about these cameras now? If you've bought one, are you happy with it? Or are you waiting for the technology to mature a bit?

Attached is a pic of the scene I'd like to cover:



This image is from a 2.8mm ColorVu camera, but is useles of a night without the white light being on which I don't want. Would the dual lense camera cope with this or is the focal distance too great?? I mainly need to see from the gate at the right back to the source of the image (which is my gate). I already have a IPC-B5442E-Z4E which at full zoom gives me a reasonable view of the far end of the road shown there (second attached pic), however I use for number plate recognition so it's no use for anything else of a night and I couldn't even use to trigger the white light on the current camera...

Any thoughts or advice most welcome

 

[Alaska Country]

This is a comparison of the Dahua 5849 (HFW5849T1-ASE-LED) 3.6mm bullet (Driveway in color) and Dahua 5449 (IPC-T5449H-ASE-D2 ) 3.6mm turret (IPC in B/W).

Illumination from a 15 watt white (3000K) flood low voltage lamp off to the side of the cameras. No IR or white light LEDs on in either camera. Cameras mounted one above the other in the center of the garage door.

Both images taken as "save image to disk" using UI3.


Dahua Bullet - 5849


Dahua Turret - 5449

The FW was updated for the turret and did help with the image non alignment. However, looking for lens alignment instructions from any net members using the 5449 camera.

 

[Madz]

Yeah ok, that image isn't a very good advertisement for the 5449! No colour and a double-image effect- but that can't be lens alignment, can it (?) as there's no colour overlay, so not sure what's going on there...

 

[Coal_Cracker]

That Dahua Bullet - 5849 sure gives a nice image.

 

[Coal_Cracker]

This is a comparison of the Dahua 5849 (HFW5849T1-ASE-LED) 3.6mm bullet (Driveway in color) and Dahua 5449 (IPC-T5449H-ASE-D2 ) 3.6mm turret (IPC in B/W).

Illumination from a 15 watt white (3000K) flood low voltage lamp off to the side of the cameras. No IR or white light LEDs on in either camera. Cameras mounted one above the other in the center of the garage door.

Both images taken as "save image to disk" using UI3.

View attachment 138959
Dahua Bullet - 5849

View attachment 138960
Dahua Turret - 5449

The FW was updated for the turret and did help with the image non alignment. However, looking for lens alignment instructions from any net members using the 5449 camera.

How does that 5849 camera do with just ambient lighting. I have a 27’ driveway with a streetlight 59’ from my garage door. I have 2 barn lights on my garage doors with 60w incandescent bulbs that are typically off just to save on energy. But the street light is always on which is a sodium bulb.

 

[Alaska Country]

Did some daytime tests today with the 5449. Used a test chart at 6.5 feet (198 cm) from the lens of the 5449 camera. It is listed as the Turret image in color. The 5849 also in color is in focus while the 5449 is not.

Moved the test target up and down the driveway and there are zero locations where the 5449 is in focus. Did the splice calibration but have no information as to the correct target to lens distance. Use 6.5 feet which is out of focus for that camera. i.e. the calibration did not change the focus for the 5449.


Dahua 5849 - Bullet


Dahua 5449 - Turret

Note: The tripod is in the same exact location for both images.

 

[Alaska Country]

as there's no colour overlay, so not sure what's going on there...

Camera is setup for B/W at night.

 

[Alaska Country]

How does that 5849 camera do with just ambient lighting.

In my case, just about the same but the street lights are moonlight LED types at 4000K. Had been using two LED 2700K 800 lumen bulbs in a carriage light fixture on either side of a double wide garage door. These are turned down to 45%. What that 45% indicates is anyone's guess!!

They come on at sunset - off at sunrise using a Zooz switch and a Hubitat Hub. These both have been replaced with one 15 watt white LED Hampton Bay low voltage flood mounted off to the side of the camera. These are intended for ground use, but are being wall mounted 8 to 9 feet above ground. Since they are 12 volts wiring is much simpler.



The 5849 does have white light LEDs, but did not like the look of a spotlight in the driveway. Thus they are off. Have since added one off camera LED white flood which helps with the cars driving down the road. There is also a street light on the corner out of camera view.

The image could be adjusted brighter, but for my needs is adequate. The shutter is fixed at 1/250 for night and 0-3 ms for day.

Overall, would guess that the 5849 would work in your night time location. And if needed change out the 60 watt bulbs for 8 watt LEDs types for more light if needed.

 

[Madz]

Camera is setup for B/W at night.

I guess what I was getting at is the out of focus / ghosting / double vision effect you are getting there - I would have thought is not related to the dual-lens design as I thought the issues there were due to the colour image not laying over the IR image exactly (partly due to the complexities of doing this with different sensor sizes). This is what I was worried about if I used one in my scenario as I thought I'd read they have a very small sweet-spot in terms of focus distance and I have quite a large scene I want to cover. I'm still interested in people's thoughts on whether the camera would work for my situation.

In your case, in B&W mode at night, wouldn't it only be using the single lens? It looks more like a focus issue with that main lens? It's pretty bad though isn't it. I wonder if something like this is needed: Anyone tried adjusting focus on Dahua fixed-lens turrets?

 

[Alaska Country]

Not sure what is going on with the camera. Maybe it fell off the truck and became focus defective. One would think that only the B/W lens would be used for non color, but this is a new technology from Dahua so other things may be going on.

Wildcat made the suggestion that it would be a good idea to only use the color sensor for day plus turn off the B/W sensor to eliminate the fringing effect. Then at night, use both for their light gathering capabilities.

It could be a simple matter of adjusting one or both of the lens to achieve the correct focus and depth of field. The data sheet lists the close focusing distance but not the expected DOF.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Alaska Country]

Some additional lighting shots using the 5849. Images not processed or camera settings adjusted. All settings the same for 3.6mm camera. Different setting for the 6mm camera. All images could be adjusted brighter if needed.


5849 - 3.6mm - two 800 lumen LED 2700K 8 watt carriage lights on each side of double garage door. Night shutter at 1/250.



5849 - 3.6 mm - one 15 watt LED white flood 3000K off to the left side (side away from the trash bin) of the camera. No other lights. Night shutter at 1/250.



5849 - 6mm - street light on silver pole in picture center. No added lighting. Night shutter at 1/250.

 

[Madz]

The 5849 shots look good, but it isn't really an option for me as I don't want to run any constant lighting up there - I am already using a similar HikVision ColorVu camera - pics attached - you can make out something tonight as there's some moonlight, but the second image is what it usually looks like as there are no street lights etc.
Third and forth pic shows how it looks when I turn on some lights up there - they are terrible pics, but give an idea - I haven't bothered to fine-tune the setup as I don't want to advertise the presence of the place with a permanent light there as it's otherwise hidden from the road... so of a night I primarily need to run with IR. However I was hoping for a solution with some colour capability as it might be important to ID vehicle colours etc. I was considering using the 5442 to detect motion of a night and turn on lights to bring the full colour camera into play but I use the 5442 at full zoom for number plate recognition so it's not really suitable for night-time motion capture unless i dynamically switch profiles on it after sensing motion... but we're getting complex now and it's still zoomed in too much so it would miss someone coming through the gate (if you compare the FOV in the first 2 images I posted).... So that's where I started wondering what to replace the ColorVu with and was considering the dual-lens... otherwise I guess I need to go for a Starlight and forget colour or maybe a TIOC camera which has white light illuminators and could switch to color on alarm?

All shots from HikVision DS-2CD2T87G2-LSU


With moonlight


Without moonlight


With up/down gate column lights (partially shining on the lens causing haze - I need to move the camera back slightly or shield it)


With white illuminator LEDs on (spiderwebs plus reflecting off camera enclosure causing glare - this is the issue with moving the camera back any further into its recess)

 

[Alaska Country]

The 5849 shots look good, but it isn't really an option for me as I don't want to run any constant lighting up there

Looks like you are close to the road, thus there are a number of options for LPR. However, keep in mind that if interested in observation for vehicle color you will need white light. Here run the 5849 in color at night just for color ID with a close by street light plus some extra mounted on the garage for illumination.

Then use IR for LPR. One HFW7442H-Z44MP AI IR maxed out at 32mm and one HFW-5242H-Z6E-MF as a backup at 48mm. In my case, there is no option for a close to the road mounted camera. Camera to plate distances in the range of 30 meters.

Without enough light the color at night option is off the table. Concentrate on IR for LPR for B/W vehicle ID. If more IR is needed there are a number of external IR lights that can be added. However, if placed too far off the camera axis, then plate reading is negated. But for general IR illumination down the road they would most likely work.