What am I getting in to?

[PalmettoPrecision]

Hey everyone,

This started as a “next on the list” chore; security cameras. From Best Buy to learning about sub-par wireless systems, rip-off quotes from professional installers, better quotes with still inferior hardware, then old faithful - Google. Realizing PoE isn’t that hard to run, understanding OEM manufacturers, the “why’s” and “why not’s” of installation…

So, here I am. I have been reading for days at this point, trying to catch up from most of the introductory posts made 5-6 years ago and piecing together where technology stands now. After feeling like I was drowning in information with less than ideal time to dedicate to this, at least I ran across Andy at Empire. You all seem to like him and it gave me light at the end of the tunnel.

I still have a ton of reading to do. I’ll likely have questions later. I appreciate those that contribute here and have read and re-read hundreds of threads. You’ll hear from me soon, I’m sure.

 

[looney2ns]

Welcome
Be sure to read everything here: Wiki.

 

[garycrist]

@PalmettoPrecision, keep reading but, what do you want to accomplish? What do you want to cover etc.
The people here will almost hand-feed you but, give us a clue as no one here will "eat you" like other forums.

 

[Mike A.]

Is a lot to take in. But you'll get there.

Don't buy cheap off-brand stuff thinking that you'll make it work and get by with that. You'll just end up buying twice. Spend the relatively small incremental extra to get good cams from the start. You'll save money and frustration in the long run.

Plan on ending up with more cams than you think and buy switches, et. al. that support more than what you think you need going in.

Start small and learn as you go vs dropping a lot of money up front. Get a good vari-focal cam to start to learn with and better figure out what you really want/need. You can use it later for whatever purpose. Don't go out and buy a box full of 8 all 2.8mm cams because they show a wide area. That's not what pretty much anyone needs.

 

[mat200]

Hey everyone,

This started as a “next on the list” chore; security cameras. From Best Buy to learning about sub-par wireless systems, rip-off quotes from professional installers, better quotes with still inferior hardware, then old faithful - Google. Realizing PoE isn’t that hard to run, understanding OEM manufacturers, the “why’s” and “why not’s” of installation…

So, here I am. I have been reading for days at this point, trying to catch up from most of the introductory posts made 5-6 years ago and piecing together where technology stands now. After feeling like I was drowning in information with less than ideal time to dedicate to this, at least I ran across Andy at Empire. You all seem to like him and it gave me light at the end of the tunnel.

I still have a ton of reading to do. I’ll likely have questions later. I appreciate those that contribute here and have read and re-read hundreds of threads. You’ll hear from

Welcome @PalmettoPrecision

btw - @TDC had a change in his situation and had to relocate due to work .. he picked up a nice system, and iirc was looking if anyone was interested.

Even if you are not interested, it does give you and idea of a good kit ( compared the the usual poor stuff available now ) you can compare and contrast with

BRAND NEW Complete Home Surveillance System

After a lot of research, I purchased a complete setup from Empire Andy. Unfortunately, the person I hired to install the system didn't work out. I have 7 IPC-T3241T-ZAS cameras, 1 IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 3.6mm camera, an NVR 5216-16P-4KS2E, WD Purple WD102PURZ 10 TB 7200 RPM 256MB Cache Hard Drive...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Rob2020]

Read, read, and read again, it is OK to start slow and build.

Came here after seeing the shortfalls of Reocrap, wireless, etc

Was overwhelmed at the start but learned as I went with the help of forum members

Planned on HIK and NVR when I joined, ended up with Dahua (Andy) and Blue Iris, 100% happy.

Recording 24/7 with 4 Dahua and several more are already purchased and need to be mounted (Winter came too soon).

 

[PalmettoPrecision]

@PalmettoPrecision, keep reading but, what do you want to accomplish? What do you want to cover etc.
The people here will almost hand-feed you but, give us a clue as no one here will "eat you" like other forums.

Thanks for the offer; most forums I come from are ruthless. Replying to you but this goes for everyone after that welcomed me too- I appreciate it. In a nutshell here is where I stand:

My current home is in a residential area, albeit one with more than average space between dwellings. My culdesac starts roughly 25 yds from my front door with 100yds clear line of sight down my road to main road. I have unobstructed visibility at night with front, back and side yards (I already run 850nm IR flood lights for use with helmet-mounted NODs; this gives significantly better image quality to the end of the road and through visible pathways between other dwellings extending out to around 140yds). I have 4 dual motion sensing LED 6000 lumen floodlights that I have adjusted to activate in almost every scenario involving two or four legged animals crossing my property line.

I am looking for 3 turret units with at least 4MP (preferably 8 due to range)and hopefully a single PTZ at the corner roofline giving visibility down the road. I want it configured to activate a pre-set movement/zoom to a specific area impossible to miss plates as a vehicle is leaving. This location (depending on FOV and optical zoom capability) starts around 40 yards (line of sight) from where the camera would be placed being the first available sighting of a tag, all the way to the end of the road at 110yds. Legibility at 100yd+ distance isn’t necessary, however a 5mph vehicle at 40 yards is necessary.

For turret units I would like 8MP resolution but 4mp would likely be adequate. That said, “lighting” isn’t an issue in this circumstance whether it be white or IR. It seems like it would easily be enough to maintain a color image even with higher resolution which is why I’m leaning towards the “MP chase” in my specific scenario. 24,000 lumens isn’t bothering anyone yet.

I want at least 2 weeks worth of storage and haven’t done enough research on it yet, but Blue Iris seems to be the way to go from a software perspective.

There you go. Back to reading. Any and all recommendations are welcomed and budget isn’t a consideration. Thanks in advance.

 

[wittaj]

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. DO NOT CHASE MP!!!

It is why we recommend to purchase one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

A few other tips....and this is worth repeating....It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm or the 4K/X - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

 

[garycrist]

YOU MY FRIEND (caps intended) have come to the right place! Soon the Dori and chasing mega pixels will come!
@sebastiantombs will be here too with some info..

 

[garycrist]

They did it while I wrote it.... ha ha ha

 

[wittaj]

Yep, when someone starts talking about 8MP and 25+ yards, it is time for the do not chase MP and DORI talk LOL.

You think you have a lot of light with 24,000 lumen. I have 36,000 Lumen and I have to force the camera into color at night if I aim/focus the camera more than 15 feet away. These sensors are still really small and need a ton of light. 8MP on anything smaller than 1/1.2" sensor and your statement about "maintain a color image even with higher resolution" gets tossed completely out the window as it won't be possible. 8MP on a 1/3" sensor will be useless in color at night and not much better with IR.

And motion sensing floodlights and cameras do not get along well. It is dark and then 24,000 lumen turn on with motion and BAM the camera is blinded just long enough to miss the money shot of the perp. Leave them on all night long!

Do you want to capture plates? If so that is a whole other conversation and is a camera dedicated just to plates - it will not be an overview also.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Everybody has basically covered all the important points regarding resolution and focal length for identification. LPR requires a separate, dedicated, camera, or two, to be effective. A PTZ cannot react fast enough, change focus fast enough either, to get a good capture unless it is set specifically to do so.
LPR

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

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LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

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LPR

Licence Plate Reader cameras

ipcamtalk.com

Review-Dahua IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E AI Varifocal Bullet

Courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY at Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling and more on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group And EmpireTech-Andy @ Amazon.com: Price Approximately $220US shipped via DHL...

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Color at night takes lots of light or very expensive cameras no matter what the resolution is. There's a reason baseball stadiums have so many very large floodlights on at night. It's to capture good, blur free motion. So it comes down to you wanting your house and property lit up like a baseball stadium. Not a very attractive situation though. Here's a couple of 8MP cameras that have good color ow light performance, but again it is very specific to the local environment, exactly how much light in its' field of view, and they have relatively limited sharp focus range compared to 4MP cameras like the 5442 series.
8MP Review

Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera

Intro I’m excited to be doing another Worlds First Review. this time as I mentioned in the full color thread, I’ve been testing the new Dahua full color 4K camera. This was provided courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY for a fair, honest, no holds barred, unbiased review. I’ll attempt to answer any and...

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2021 Full Color 2.0 Has a Fantastic New Dual Lens Camera

Hey guys The full color 2.0 has been released. Most cams I already posted here. Like: IPC-Color4K-X Bullet 4MP Motorized Full color. Today I bring a secret model, 1st release for the Dual-Lens Full color model in the world. Dual-lens Camera( Sample at Early Sep ) Ø Dual light fusion...

ipcamtalk.com

If you could post a sketch of your property, with distances and which way is north, it would help analyze the best camera placements from a variety of viewpoints. I started out with two cameras in the front yard, say 150'x250' , and now there are seven and I may add one more to that.

Trust me on this,
Three rules
Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

 

[garycrist]

TY @sebastiantombs