Was thinking Lorex, now maybe not... Questions inside

[foghat]

Hi,

First post. Not quite sure if the is the appropriate sub-forum for this post - surprised there is not a 'General' sub-forum, but, I digress.....

I have been looking at video surveillance for my home on and off over the past 1.5 years or so. I've almost always been looking at the Lorex website or Costco.ca for their Lorex packages.

I discovered this site the other day and I am now questioning going with a Lorex system. I know that Dahua is highly regarded here (and that they supply a neutered version of their camera's to Lorex) and am thinking of going that route.

I have read through the Cliff Notes.

Still not sure about using a NVR or getting box and using Blue Iris (or similar). I figure I will probably need about 8 cameras for complete exterior coverage and will probably start off with some number less than that.

First, some general questions:
1. I know the Dahua HDW5231R-ZE is highly regarded. Is the general consensus that this camera is still the way to go for low light performance?

I understand this camera provides very good low light performance, but I can't help but think that something with a little more resolution (2k/4k) would be better during daylight hours? How do users of the HDW5231R-ZE (or similiar) find the detail provided by this camera in daylight?

2. Are there any higher resolution cameras that perform well (maybe not Starlight well) in low light?

3. Does Lorex have a Starlight equivalent camera?

4. Is there a non-zoom equivalent to the HDW5231R-ZE? I suspect at least a couple of the cameras will need to cover from pretty much the camera mounting point and out.

5. Are there any NVRs worth using? Or realistically is a computer based setup the way to go? I know to a certain degree it probably depends on your use case, but I don't 100% know what mine will be (outside of simply recording and sending a few motion based alerts to my phone)

6. I ideally be looking to record all the time for all the cameras. Suggestions on 15 vs. 30 fps?

7. It seems like you need a pretty beefy system if you are doing a lot of motion detection and you let Blue Iris handle the motion detection. But what about if you are just doing 24/7 recording?

8. I have an old computer with 8 gigs ram and an intel Core 2 Quad Q9300 @2.5ghz. I imagine this will not quite cut it? Do any of the VMS systems make use of the gpu? I have an geforce gtx 980 I could put in the machine.

Now some questions specific to my setup.
Attached are a couple pictures of the front of my house. Right now I have a doorbell camera as part of my alarm system.

View attachment 47602

1. What are thoughts on Camera placement to cover the driveway and street and also for the front door and walkway to the front door?

For driveway/street I am thinking one mounted above the garage door, right in the ehe middle?

For front door, would mounting above the door and tilting camera down a bit allow for viewing of people at the door and the walkway?

Whew. Long first post...

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions

 

[bigredfish]

Welcome!

A couple of opinions:

1 & 2- Actually the newer Pro AI 4MP Starlight+ cameras in my opinion now equal and surpass the 5231 series in low light and of course higher resolution in daytime.
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/1/7107?tab=7127
There are a number of reviews:
Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+
Review: Dahua HFW5442T-ASE 4MP Starlight+

3- dunno but why bother

4-yes - 4MP pro AI https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/1/7107?tab=7127

5- Yes. I have 5, MANY others here have them, they work great. BI does have some advantages however if you want to go that route. Be careful however and plan your BI system well to allow for all you'd like to do. (I'm not a BI guy so not an expert)
The 5000 Pro series are well regarded, but there are newer ones that are better with newer features such as AI. With new features comes a price.
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/100

6- many here will tell you all you "need" is 15, or less. Then there's the 'want" factor. I run 30fps on all of mine where the NVR/XVR supports the bandwidth. of course thats over a closed network (home), not streaming full bitrate/fps over the Interwebs.

7- Motion fecording will take less resources than fulltime. Advise you pan to do both.

8-NA- not a BI guy

IMHO takes two crossing cameras to cover the drive/street properly. 7-8ft is best height to get good depth of view as well as facial ID at the drive. See thumbnails

Front door camera 6-7ft high to left of door frame for good ID.

 

[foghat]

Thanks for the awesome replay! I really appreciate it. Going to reread it and check some of the links tomorrow.

NVR is appealing, will take a look at your suggestion and give it more thought. I do have concern about the noise though - I have read they are all fairly loud. It will be located in my office which is on the upper floor overlooking an ‘open to above’ living room - I don’t mind if I hear it while in my office, but would rather not hear it on the main floor.

This said, I can’t help but thing there would be a way to cover it with some sort of vented enclosure to reduce the noise.

Edit: I should add that we never really have cars in the driveway (except when guests are over), so not sure that a dual ‘cross-cam’ setup would be necessary?

 

[bigredfish]

I think fan noise on NVR's is a bit overdone. If it doesnt bother my wife who can hear things only dogs can hear, it aint a big deal.

Those two cams will be your primary view of whats entering your lot, along with situational awareness of the street in both directions.

 

[mat200]

welcome @foghat

Nice home. I think with the attached garage you have a great place to run 3-4 cameras from.

I would place 1 camera on each side of the garage door, and 1-2 cameras covering the frontdoor / walkway to the front door.

Remember doing the cable runs to good locations is the most critical job imho, as you can always upgrade cameras and kit with less issues than reruning cable.

I would pick up one of the cameras bigredfish points out and use it with the test rig to determine good placements.

That noted - I DO like the Costco return policy on security cameras - one of the best. However, they have very limited options of kits / cameras.

In the USA you can often see some good deals during the BF-cyberweek period.

 

[foghat]

Welcome!

5- Yes. I have 5, MANY others here have them, they work great. BI does have some advantages however if you want to go that route. Be careful however and plan your BI system well to allow for all you'd like to do. (I'm not a BI guy so not an expert)
The 5000 Pro series are well regarded, but there are newer ones that are better with newer features such as AI. With new features comes a price.
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/100

What NVR(s) are you running?

I assume these are the 5000 Pro series NVRs you are talking about?

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/100/465?tab=472

What is the interface like? Point and click graphical GUI?

 

[bigredfish]

Correct
I have a NVR5216-16P-4KS2E, two NVR4208-8P-4KS2, and a couple of XVR's as I run an HDCVI/IP camera mix at my home and Mom's.

The 52xx series has been the workhorse many here for some time, but I'd be looking at the newer Lite or Pro AI models if I was looking to buy a new one,
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/100

 

[Frankenscript]

Just a few chip-ins here:
-I started with a Hickvision NVR, it worked fine but I found it annoying to interact with, eventually bought a cheap used computer and run BI. Never looked back.
-I record 10 fps on all my cameras; that's plenty for my needs.
-I've got a few of the 5321R-ZEs and like them a lot, but I am planning to buy some higher MP cams for specific purposes, seeing better detail 40-75 feet away from the house.

Here's a recommendation: You have some computers that can limp for a couple cameras. Buy a 5321R-ZE and one of the the higher res cameras. Spend $60 on BI, install it on an existing computer. You'll also need a POE switch (~$60). Try things out. The cameras will ABSOLUTELY be useful to you in the future. Worst case you're out for the cost of BI and the switch. But I bet you will be hooked, and get sucked down the slippery slope that many of us have done here...

Welcome. Enjoy.

 

[foghat]

Just a few chip-ins here:
-I started with a Hickvision NVR, it worked fine but I found it annoying to interact with, eventually bought a cheap used computer and run BI. Never looked back.
-I record 10 fps on all my cameras; that's plenty for my needs.
-I've got a few of the 5321R-ZEs and like them a lot, but I am planning to buy some higher MP cams for specific purposes, seeing better detail 40-75 feet away from the house.

Here's a recommendation: You have some computers that can limp for a couple cameras. Buy a 5321R-ZE and one of the the higher res cameras. Spend $60 on BI, install it on an existing computer. You'll also need a POE switch (~$60). Try things out. The cameras will ABSOLUTELY be useful to you in the future. Worst case you're out for the cost of BI and the switch. But I bet you will be hooked, and get sucked down the slippery slope that many of us have done here...

Welcome. Enjoy.

Thanks for the input. Yes, I probably just need to pickup a couple of cameras and give things a go. I am not sure I even want to step near the Blue Iris rabbit hole - I have fallen into many rabbit holes with other computer related items and while I enjoy it, it becomes such a consumer of time - always looking to perfect the setup (and, indeed, sometimes just trying to get things working at all). NVR is appealing as it seems more constrained and more 'plug and play'.

 

[foghat]

Correct
I have a NVR5216-16P-4KS2E, two NVR4208-8P-4KS2, and a couple of XVR's as I run an HDCVI/IP camera mix at my home and Mom's.

The 52xx series has been the workhorse many here for some time, but I'd be looking at the newer Lite or Pro AI models if I was looking to buy a new one,
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/100

The AI features look neat, but I am having a hard time envisioning how useful they would be in a home setting. Maybe using Stranger mode to identify canvassers and such? What are you thinking some of your use cases would be?

 

[Frankenscript]

Thanks for the input. Yes, I probably just need to pickup a couple of cameras and give things a go. I am not sure I even want to step near the Blue Iris rabbit hole - I have fallen into many rabbit holes with other computer related items and while I enjoy it, it becomes such a consumer of time - always looking to perfect the setup (and, indeed, sometimes just trying to get things working at all). NVR is appealing as it seems more constrained and more 'plug and play'.

The problem is that if you spend $300 or whatever on an NVR you are stuck. Poor resale market for them. I have my hickvision one sitting around, nobody wanted it even for $100 locally. With BI it's basically just a $60 risk. You can always buy an NVR later.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

[mat200]

What NVR(s) are you running?

I assume these are the 5000 Pro series NVRs you are talking about?

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/allProducts/100/465?tab=472

What is the interface like? Point and click graphical GUI?

Hi @foghat

Just about everything is some sort of gui now.... just go to youtube and search for Dahua camera setups and check out the Dahua Wiki.

We also have some screens shots posted here.

Some people do not like the NVRs GUI - saying they feel a bit dated. I'm ok with them, just took some time to figure it out. Not much different than some router interfaces I've dealt with imho, and a lot better than editing config files as a new user.

If you have a PC you can try both Dahua's smartpss and the demo version of Blue Iris to get a better idea of what you may like before spending more money.

As Frankenscript suggests - I would get just one camera, good cat6 ethernet cable w/copper wire that is long enough for testing, a decent PoE switch and start playing around with a camera.

 

[bigredfish]

The machine interface of Dahua NVRs does kinda suck, that’s what many here are familiar with. You only use it on initial setup for a handful of things. Ivve not been back to it in 3 years.



The Web browser interface is quite good I think. in fact its virtually Identical to the Camera interface.

 

[foghat]

The problem is that if you spend $300 or whatever on an NVR you are stuck. Poor resale market for them. I have my hickvision one sitting around, nobody wanted it even for $100 locally. With BI it's basically just a $60 risk. You can always buy an NVR later.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

I hear you. Works out to be about a $160 CAD risk for me including an 8 port PoE switch ($220 risk with 16 port PoE). Can get a NVR5216-4KS2 V2 for about $360 cdn. So, would be out at most $200 if I decided the NVR is not for me - of course if we start talking the AI NVRs, I guess that changes.

Hi @foghat

Just about everything is some sort of gui now.... just go to youtube and search for Dahua camera setups and check out the Dahua Wiki.

We also have some screens shots posted here.

Some people do not like the NVRs GUI - saying they feel a bit dated. I'm ok with them, just took some time to figure it out. Not much different than some router interfaces I've dealt with imho, and a lot better than editing config files as a new user.

If you have a PC you can try both Dahua's smartpss and the demo version of Blue Iris to get a better idea of what you may like before spending more money.

As Frankenscript suggests - I would get just one camera, good cat6 ethernet cable w/copper wire that is long enough for testing, a decent PoE switch and start playing around with a camera.

Thx. Since post this I’ve looked through the NVR instruction manuals. Interface seems fine. Ya, maybe just a single camera and try the free versions.

 

[foghat]

The machine interface of Dahua NVRs does kinda suck, that’s what many here are familiar with. You only use it on initial setup for a handful of things. Ivve not been back to it in 3 years.
View attachment 47682


The Web browser interface is quite good I think. in fact its virtually Identical to the Camera interface.

View attachment 47675 View attachment 47676 View attachment 47677 View attachment 47678 View attachment 47679 View attachment 47680 View attachment 47681

Thx. I imagine with the web browser you can access the nvr from any computer on your network. Maybe I could wire everything to the basement and stick the nvr in the furnace room. Then any potential noise issues become non-existent. But would be a major pain if I ever needed to access the machine interface (would have to figure something out for the initial setup).

If a guy has a dedicated monitor, does the web interface support live monitoring of the cameras In a full screen mode (vs. your one picture that has all the GUI elements as well)?

 

[bigredfish]

Yes

Plus you can install SmartPSS on a pc and do all of your viewing and playback from there without ever having to connect directly to the NVR web interface.

I only access the NVR web interface when I’m changing out cameras or doing something global

 

[foghat]

Yes

Plus you can install SmartPSS on a pc and do all of your viewing and playback from there without ever having to connect directly to the NVR web interface.

I only access the NVR web interface when I’m changing out cameras or doing something global

So, then can the initial nvr setup (where you have to use the machine interface) be completed without any cameras connected? Wondering if I could set the nvr up in a place a little more comfortable than the furnace room and then move it down there after, connect the cameras and set the rest up via web interface or SmartPSS.

 

[bigredfish]

Yes

 

[foghat]

So, looking at the 4216 AI Lite NVR.

Specs state bandwidth as 200Mbps (80Mbps with AI enabled). Trying to make sure this is sufficient bandwidth: Looking at HDW5542TM-AS - looks like it has a maximum bit rate of 8192 Kbps. I believe this translates to about 8.2Mbps.

So if the math is correct the NVR can support, bandwidth wise, 24 cameras or 8 with AI enabled.

Am I doing this right?

 

[bigredfish]

I think so.