UFOs, Extraterrestrials, Advanced Technology and Other Associated Weirdness

[Jessie.slimer]

"Dead pilots"? It's non-sequiturs like this that show just how disconnected these UFO claims are from reality.

We are currently on the cusp of developing aircraft that will be autonomously piloted by artificial intelligence. In twenty to thirty years, we'll have aircraft and spacecraft controlled by human-equivalent minds but without the expense and inconvenience of human bodies. It will make absolutely no sense to send real people to perform hazardous reconnaissance missions that can be handled far more efficiently by intelligent machines.

So why would alien races that are centuries more advanced than us be incapable of doing exactly what we'll soon be doing? The answer, of course, is that the stories of "space aliens" are coming from people who could never imagine a situation where a living being would not be in charge, so that's the story they tell.

Stories of alien encounters, no matter how detailed, always fall to pieces when examined critically in the light of technological progress. Go back and read the story of Barney and Betty Hill and you'll realize that they made up the entire story of their alien encounter in 1961, weaving together elements of popular culture. It's painfully obvious when the aliens show no knowledge or use of anything remotely resembling current technology. The "aliens" are just caricatures of what was shown in TV shows and movies of the day.

One theory is that the pilots/bodies that visit earth are inorganic clones of the actual aliens. Similar to how we are trying to make AI currently. The aliens might just control them. An unmanned craft can only fly here. It cannot walk around or do anything. Hence the need for bodies. There is an episode of Ancient Aliens that talks about this.

 

[wtimothyholman]

One theory is that the pilots/bodies that visit earth are inorganic clones of the actual aliens. Similar to how we are trying to make AI currently. The aliens might just control them. An unmanned craft can only fly here. It cannot walk around or do anything. Hence the need for bodies. There is an episode of Ancient Aliens that talks about this.

There are an infinite number of post-hoc theories one can toss out to explain illogical, contradictory, or missing evidence based on unsubstantiated stories. If the aliens can create inorganic avatars, then why bother duplicating their own bodies, instead of creating human bodies that would blend in with the population? We're talking about a race that is hundreds or thousands of years more advanced than we are. They have had decades, or even centuries, to study us as thoroughly as their science will allow. Why not construct human avatars with AI-driven "personalities" that would be indistinguishable from us?

If we were actually being observed by aliens, I am confident that it would be with tools and techniques that we would be unable to detect. As an example, back in the 1960's, researcher Dian Fossey had to physically go into the jungle to learn about the bands of gorillas she wanted to study. She had to interact with them firsthand to learn about their social structures and behavior, but was also criticized for the negative impacts and anxiety that her presence caused among the gorillas.

That era has long since passed. Nowadays we observe wildlife using high-resolution cameras and drones. If properly disguised and carefully used, these devices are completely ignored by the animals. As far as the gorillas are concerned, the humans have disappeared, and they can live their lives without interference. But in truth we can now document their behavior far more comprehensively than Fossey could have dreamed of 60 years ago.

Now consider our modern cameras and drones, and then extrapolate what surveillance tools an alien race that is centuries more advanced than we are might have at their disposal. I can come up with some rather bizarre speculations, e.g. they are observing us with probes stationed in hyperspace that do not interact with our physical universe. But unprovable speculation is all that it would be. Whatever the aliens would be using, we would never have a clue what it was given our current level of technology.

 

[wtimothyholman]

If you read post #42 in this discussion, you'll see what I think of UFO's. Largely my opinion is similar to yours (wtimothyholman) on the whole.

I'll also add that the whole topic of UFO's (or whatever anyone wants to label it these days) is and has traditionally been inundated with, for lack of a better description, nuts, idiots, and morons, most looking for some kind of angle to make a buck. Not everyone, but it certainly has attracted an "eclectic" interest. Even the so-called authorities on the topic appear to be unusual in nature and appearance.

That stated, I watched the aforementioned documentary on Travis Walton expecting to enjoy a good laugh. I ended up being mystified as to how a group of what appeared to me as "regular, ordinary working guys", (like any of us maybe) could not only fabricate such a tale, but then keep their accounts straight between themselves. When they reported Travis missing, they were all under suspicion of murder - it was presumed by police that they'd killed him and hid his body somewhere out in the forest they were working in. (Never mind that the foreman was Travis' best friend). They grilled each of them one at a time and used polygraphs which they all passed. These are regular working guys - yes you can fool a polygraph - we all know that, but it isn't that easy to do without training.

As a counterpoint to the Tubi documentary, I would recommend reading the following: The Selling of the Travis Walton "Abduction" Story

That site contains multiple first-person accounts of peoples' interactions with Travis Walton, his brother, and the other purported witnesses. Of particular interest is the fact that the National Enquirer paid Walton for his story, and the six witnesses as well. If you ever wanted a motive for sticking to the story, there you have it.

 

[eyeball]

As a counterpoint to the Tubi documentary, I would recommend reading the following: The Selling of the Travis Walton "Abduction" Story

That site contains multiple first-person accounts of peoples' interactions with Travis Walton, his brother, and the other purported witnesses. Of particular interest is the fact that the National Enquirer paid Walton for his story, and the six witnesses as well. If you ever wanted a motive for sticking to the story, there you have it.

I'll check it out thanks. Those guys appeared to be quite sincere in the documentary, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was about money after all, like most everything else is.

 

[eyeball]

As a counterpoint to the Tubi documentary, I would recommend reading the following: The Selling of the Travis Walton "Abduction" Story

That site contains multiple first-person accounts of peoples' interactions with Travis Walton, his brother, and the other purported witnesses. Of particular interest is the fact that the National Enquirer paid Walton for his story, and the six witnesses as well. If you ever wanted a motive for sticking to the story, there you have it.

Quite an enlightening read despite its tome-ish presentation.

After reading, it does seem plausible that Travis and his "half a bubble off center" brother could have invented and perpetrated the hoax, convincing the other eyewitnesses enough to pass the polygraphs with the objective to win the National Enquirer's substantial bounty for proof of extraterrestrials. A hundred thousand bucks would have gone a long way in the 1970s, but they failed on the proof end of things.

Still, the sincerity of those guys in the documentary is both interesting and puzzling to me. I'm normally not one to get taken in by an "act" or a load of bs. Maybe I'm slipping...I mean after all, aren't we being told that people can transition into anything these days? Maybe Travis Walton will transition to an extraterrestrial and sue the National Enquirer for the $100k...stranger things have happened.

 

[samplenhold]

Realize that not all of us that crash-landed here died.

 

[Jessie.slimer]

81 percent of adults believe in God... with zero proof, just as there is zero proof of alien existence. Yet the talk of possible alien existence is still considered crazy or irrational.

With the size of the known single plane universe, the science part of me refuses to believe that this young, tiny rock is the only one that has intelligent life on it, even though it may not have contacted us yet.

Belief in God in U.S. Dips to 81%, a New Low

Eighty-one percent of U.S. adults say they believe in God, down six percentage points from 2017 and the lowest in Gallup's trend.

news.gallup.com

 

[bigredfish]

Roswell has always bothered me, why after 75 years is so much of it still secret?

So do the more recent metallic balls zipping around

Pentagon releases video of UFO flying over active combat zone in Middle East

The footage captured by a US military drone shows a mysterious spherical object zooming across the sky above an active military zone in the Middle East last year.

nypost.com

Footage of hypersonic metallic UFO shown by Pentagon officials at historic hearing

Pentagon officials speaking at the first public hearing on UFOs since the 1960s have shown previously classified footage of an unidentified aerial phenomenon (UAP).

www.livescience.com

 

[eyeball]

81 percent of adults believe in God... with zero proof, just as there is zero proof of alien existence. Yet the talk of possible alien existence is still considered crazy or irrational.

With the size of the known single plane universe, the science part of me refuses to believe that this young, tiny rock is the only one that has intelligent life on it, even though it may not have contacted us yet.

Belief in God in U.S. Dips to 81%, a New Low

Eighty-one percent of U.S. adults say they believe in God, down six percentage points from 2017 and the lowest in Gallup's trend.

news.gallup.com

There's actually a formula for that. It's called the "Drake Equation", and I remember from some video I watched a year or more ago that the probability of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is "1".

In other words, it is a "mathematical certainty" (according to that equation) that there is life on other planets, but here's the sticking point: As you pointed out, our tiny rock is barely noticeable. In fact, I'd say it's so small on the whole of things that it's insignificant. To my way of thinking that would make it less probable that we'd even get noticed by another intelligence.

Bottom line is, yes, there's life elsewhere, but we're (probably) too small to be noticed by it (or them).

It would be really cool to find out that we've had extraterrestrial visits, though. It would answer a lot of questions and pose many more. I think that hopefulness encourages a lot of people to maybe exaggerate in reporting a lot of these "sightings".

 

[eyeball]

Roswell has always bothered me, why after 75 years is so much of it still secret?

So do the more recent metallic balls zipping around

Pentagon releases video of UFO flying over active combat zone in Middle East

The footage captured by a US military drone shows a mysterious spherical object zooming across the sky above an active military zone in the Middle East last year.

nypost.com

Footage of hypersonic metallic UFO shown by Pentagon officials at historic hearing

Pentagon officials speaking at the first public hearing on UFOs since the 1960s have shown previously classified footage of an unidentified aerial phenomenon (UAP).

www.livescience.com

I think Roswell is still secret for the same reason that the JFK assassination files are still withheld - the people holding the secrets have zero incentive to release them.

 

[wtimothyholman]

81 percent of adults believe in God... with zero proof, just as there is zero proof of alien existence. Yet the talk of possible alien existence is still considered crazy or irrational.

Belief in alien life is not irrational. Given the size of the observable universe, there is undoubtedly life somewhere else besides Earth. How much of that life is intelligent, or capable of developing a technological civilization, is open to speculation depending on the values you plug into the Drake Equation.

What is "crazy and irrational" is believing that aliens are constantly visiting us, buzzing around military bases and kidnapping random people in order to subject them to bizarre medical experiments. Space is big ... really, really big. Civilizations that are thousands of light-years apart might grow, mature, and vanish without ever being aware of each other's presence, and that's even assuming they existed at the same time. Two civilizations separated by 10,000 years in time (an eye blink in the age of the universe) would never know the other was there.

Many UFO "true believers" are inclined to wishful thinking with religious overtones, i.e. hoping the superior all-knowing aliens will save us from ourselves. The stories simply change as cultures shift and technology advances. Decades later you can read the accounts and realize how little sense they made, e.g. the Barney and Betty Hill abduction story.

 

[Jessie.slimer]

Agreed on most of that. But there are several documented encounter cases, while unproven, are not able to be disproven or explained either. Many of which are from reputable people in positions of power which would not benefit from telling their story- the opposite, actually. It may taint their otherwise perfect credibility in the eyes of some. A US president has even admitted seeing an unexplained UFO.

Look at religion. Millions, if not billions, of people all over the globe go to churches every week to talk and interact with their god(s). This is considered normal, mainstream behavior- but tell someone you interacted with an et, or even saw something paranormal, and you will get the eye rolls at bare minimum.

 

[bigredfish]

There was this one time in 1976, at a keg party in a barn in Butler PA…. Sure there were psychedelics involved but …..

 

[eyeball]

Belief in alien life is not irrational. Given the size of the observable universe, there is undoubtedly life somewhere else besides Earth. How much of that life is intelligent, or capable of developing a technological civilization, is open to speculation depending on the values you plug into the Drake Equation.

What is "crazy and irrational" is believing that aliens are constantly visiting us, buzzing around military bases and kidnapping random people in order to subject them to bizarre medical experiments. Space is big ... really, really big. Civilizations that are thousands of light-years apart might grow, mature, and vanish without ever being aware of each other's presence, and that's even assuming they existed at the same time. Two civilizations separated by 10,000 years in time (an eye blink in the age of the universe) would never know the other was there.

Many UFO "true believers" are inclined to wishful thinking with religious overtones, i.e. hoping the superior all-knowing aliens will save us from ourselves. The stories simply change as cultures shift and technology advances. Decades later you can read the accounts and realize how little sense they made, e.g. the Barney and Betty Hill abduction story.

Mysteries (including the discussion of unknowns of all kinds) are an interesting distraction for a lot of people. In order to explain them, many succumb to the temptation to extrapolate description of events excessively. Some believe them to the point of being able to pass polygraphs. The point is, exploring a puzzling event is fun, even the oddities posed are entertaining in a way. As long as we have a reality check occasionally, it's a fun dream.

 

[SJGUSMC21]

Out of all the vastness of space, galaxies, universes....I just cannot believe we are the ONLY intelligent life in all of them. Just can't.

 

[eyeball]

Agreed on most of that. But there are several documented encounter cases, while unproven, are not able to be disproven or explained either. Many of which are from reputable people in positions of power which would not benefit from telling their story- the opposite, actually. It may taint their otherwise perfect credibility in the eyes of some. A US president has even admitted seeing an unexplained UFO.

Look at religion. Millions, if not billions, of people all over the globe go to churches every week to talk and interact with their god(s). This is considered normal, mainstream behavior- but tell someone you interacted with an et, or even saw something paranormal, and you will get the eye rolls at bare minimum.

The UFO topic has many intelligent followers. It also regrettably attacts a significant number of people that are chasing money, and even more that behave with insane, clown-like abandon. It's those people that leave the stain of association should anyone mention anything.

Then there's another biggie - that no one has produced irrefutable evidence.

 

[garycrist]

For all of the young ones.... Our government at work for you!

 

[eyeball]

Let me toss this out for conversation fodder: Do we all agree that, in light of authoritative witness testimony and recorded flight data, there are objects that have exhibited uncommonly known flight characteristics? Objects of an unknown origin? Or are the reports and testimony a misinformation campaign by those who would profit from an investment in space defense?

Opinions?

 

[bigredfish]

Yes. There are too many reports from what I consider otherwise solid sources of military and civilian pilots to say they are seeing stuff that at minimum doesnt make sense. The steel ball in Iraq being the latest and there is public video of it.

 

[garycrist]

It's the "Old Russian Scare" again! They used this same old shi$ back in the 50's.
They used UFO crap back then too.

I have some plans for a bomb shelter left over from the 50's for sale too.