Tweaking my new HFW5241E-Z12E

[RyanB]

I bought the Loryta HFW5241E-Z12E on Amazon from EmpireTech-Andy on Monday. The daytime video is almost perfect but I need some coaching regarding nighttime traffic. Some nighttime cars pass by undetected and the ones I do catch are blurry.

I’ve uploaded the nighttime Picture, Exposure and Illuminator settings plus screenshots showing two cars from last night. There are so many settings overall and I’m not sure which ones to tweak first and how to tweak them.

Backlight is OFF, WB is Natural, Day and Night is B/W, Focus and Zoom is set to Manual, Defog is OFF.

According the schedule, the nighttime session began 30 minutes before it got dark and I used the auto-focus button under Zoom and Focus.

Any suggestions on next steps would be appreciated

Editing on Apr 11. Made some changes based on the feedback and great comments in the "from 137 feet" thread mentioned below.

I'm not sure what to tweak next. Zoom is 870 and focus is 1600. Uploading two more files with Apr 10 exposure settings and Apr 10 car pic.

April 24 Update

I’ve made progress over the past two weeks but need help to apply the right changes to wrap this up.

I’m uploading my latest settings along with a screenshot of three cars from last night. The neighborhood is very quiet overnight so the number of cars I have to work with is small. The current video setup is 15 FPS and 15-frame interval with 4096 CBR.

What do I work on next? With three different results from last night, I’m not sure which setting to adjust first.

 

[biggen]

Shutter upper end range is too fast. Change it to a fixed shutter and use either 1/1000 or 1/2000. Knock down the 3DNR to about 40. I'd also reset all your picture settings (e.g. color, contrast, saturation, etc...) back to 50. Try it again with these changes.

Most of us change the cameras over to nighttime mode 30 minutes to an hour before sunset so that the camera has ample sunlight to focus. If you try and change it over too late, there isn't enough sunlight for it to find focus properly.

 

[gwminor48]

Check out threads like this:

IPC-HFW5231E-Z12 LPR from 137 feet

I’ve been running a IPC-HFW5231E-Z12 as an LPR from 137 feet for over a week now and I’m getting excellent results for both day and night. The 137 feet distance was calculated using the IPVM calculator (IPVM Camera Calculator) and I measured it with a Bosch laser measurer. Here’s the birds eye...

www.ipcamtalk.com

 

[RyanB]

Shutter upper end range is too fast. Change it to a fixed shutter and use either 1/1000 or 1/2000. Knock down the 3DNR to about 40. I'd also reset all your picture settings (e.g. color, contrast, saturation, etc...) back to 50. Try it again with these changes.

Most of us change the cameras over to nighttime mode 30 minutes to an hour before sunset so that the camera has ample sunlight to focus. If you try and change it over too late, there isn't enough sunlight for it to find focus properly.

Thanks for he feedback. I'll try these settings and I think you may be right regarding my sunset timing. It may have been too dark when I ran the auto-focus so I'll do it sooner tonight.

 

[RyanB]

Check out threads like this:

IPC-HFW5231E-Z12 LPR from 137 feet

I’ve been running a IPC-HFW5231E-Z12 as an LPR from 137 feet for over a week now and I’m getting excellent results for both day and night. The 137 feet distance was calculated using the IPVM calculator (IPVM Camera Calculator) and I measured it with a Bosch laser measurer. Here’s the birds eye...

www.ipcamtalk.com

Great thread. Somehow I missed it when I was going through the forum. I'll do a follow-up post as this comes together.

 

[RyanB]

Just edited my original post, Comments appreciated. Thanks.

 

[wittaj]

Your shutter is way to slow. 2.5ms, which is 1/400 is too slow for a moving vehicle.

You have to set the shutter to the same, so either make the ms the same or do something like 0.1 to 0.1. A range of shutter means that because it is dark, it is running at 2.5ms and as soon as the headlight hits it, the shutter speed increases and then it changes your focus and now you are blurry all night. I'd recommend a fixed shutter like 1/1000 or 1/2000.

Your iframes need to match - so 20FPS and 20iframes.

Your focus is also off. You need to set the step to 1 and then if possible have someone stop a car in the frame and manually focus it by steps of one. Your focus of 1600 could be withing 1590 or 1610 and at the zoom we are at, that will make a difference as to what the actual number is. The Default is 20 step, which means you are focusing in increments of 20. Zoom and focus is unique to each individual setting.

I have found that for some reason the newer 5241-Z12 must be using a different sensor/chipset than the older ones. I have the older 5231 and my neighbor the 5241 and the settings were the same. I recently bought a 5241 and the settings are completely different for the same scene, so I think for some just getting this camera, the settings shown in the older posts will need to be tweaked more. Here was what I had to do to my recently purchased Z12 to make it work. Try these settings:

 

[RyanB]

Your shutter is way to slow. 2.5ms, which is 1/400 is too slow for a moving vehicle.

You have to set the shutter to the same, so either make the ms the same or do something like 0.1 to 0.1. A range of shutter means that because it is dark, it is running at 2.5ms and as soon as the headlight hits it, the shutter speed increases and then it changes your focus and now you are blurry all night.

Your iframes need to match - so 20FPS and 20iframes.

Your focus is also off. You need to set the step to 1 and then if possible have someone stop a car in the frame and manually focus it by steps of one. Your focus of 1600 could be withing 1590 or 1610 and at the zoom we are at, that will make a difference as to what the actual number is. The Default is 20 step, which means you are focusing in increments of 20. Zoom and focus is unique to each individual setting.

I have found that for some reason the newer 5241-Z12 must be using a different sensor/chipset than the older ones. I have the older 5231 and my neighbor the 5241 and the settings were the same. I recently bought a 5241 and the settings are completely different for the same scene, so I think for some just getting this camera, the settings shown in the older posts will need to be tweaked more. Here was what I had to do to my recently purchased Z12 to make it work. Try these settings:

View attachment 86547

This is a big help. I'll work on this for tonight including parking my car to do the focus.

One thing to add is I was using one of those red reflectors to dial in the focus and zoom but using my car makes more sense. I put reflective tape on my mailbox to help focus another one of my cameras and it worked like a charm.

 

[biggen]

Don't even mess with shutter range. Just set it fixed to 1/1000 or 1/2000. I'd also up the 3DNR to 40. It is going to be very noisy and grainy at that setting you have now.

You shouldn't need any reflective tape to help focus if you are focusing before sunset (when switching to night time settings) or after sunrise (if switching to day mode). How/when do you have it switching to night mode because it looks off to me.

 

[wittaj]

This is a big help. I'll work on this for tonight including parking my car to do the focus.

One thing to add is I was using one of those red reflectors to dial in the focus and zoom but using my car makes more sense. I put reflective tape on my mailbox to help focus another one of my cameras and it worked like a charm.

The other thing you can do is turn the camera to B/W during the day to get the focus number for the nighttime setting.

And strongly consider running the this utility that a member created that will force the camera to a set zoom and focus for day and night based on sunrise/sunset and not have to deal with the schedule and setting and forcing B/W before sunset.

Dahua day/night switch utility - DahuaSunriseSunset

I wanted to use stronger noise reduction at night and weaker during the day, but Dahua seems to have made a mess of the profile management. On most cameras, there doesn't seem to be a way to have the camera switch automatically between Day and Night profiles when the camera changes between...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[RyanB]

Don't even mess with shutter range. Just set it fixed to 1/1000 or 1/2000. I'd also up the 3DNR to 40. It is going to be very noisy and grainy at that setting you have now.

You shouldn't need any reflective tape to help focus if you are focusing before sunset (when switching to night time settings) or after sunrise (if switching to day mode). How/when do you have it switching to night mode because it looks off to me.

Agreed. I'm now at 1/1000 with more DNR. We had lots of rain overnight and didn't get much traffic. For day night switching, I use the schedule feature and I'll redo the focus and zoom with the camera running in night mode. I don't think I can use DahuaSunriseSunset cause my computers are Macs.

 

[biggen]

Agreed. I'm now at 1/1000 with more DNR. We had lots of rain overnight and didn't get much traffic. For day night switching, I use the schedule feature and I'll redo the focus and zoom with the camera running in night mode. I don't think I can use DahuaSunriseSunset cause my computers are Macs.

The problem with the built-in scheduling is sunrise/sunset changes day by day. So you have to either keep logging in to change the times manually or set the change over very early in the day to make sure you do it with enough time to focus. You can use a Raspberry Pi to do a similar job of changing the cameras over to day/night if you have one of those using a program called sunwait Here is a post I wrote about doing so from about a year ago: Program for flipping cameras to day/night on Linux

 

[RyanB]

The other thing you can do is turn the camera to B/W during the day to get the focus number for the nighttime setting.

And strongly consider running the this utility that a member created that will force the camera to a set zoom and focus for day and night based on sunrise/sunset and not have to deal with the schedule and setting and forcing B/W before sunset.

Dahua day/night switch utility - DahuaSunriseSunset

I wanted to use stronger noise reduction at night and weaker during the day, but Dahua seems to have made a mess of the profile management. On most cameras, there doesn't seem to be a way to have the camera switch automatically between Day and Night profiles when the camera changes between...

ipcamtalk.com

You're right. The camera was in color mode when I set zoom and focus because it was in day mode according to the schedule. I'll redo the zoom and focus using the B/W mode. Im on a Mac so I don't think I can run the Dahua utility.

I used the new 1/1000 settings last night and I saw better results even though we had a huge storm going through. I understand the shutter and gain much better now. I'll post again tomorrow.

 

[RyanB]

The problem with the built-in scheduling is sunrise/sunset changes day by day. So you have to either keep logging in to change the times manually or set the change over very early in the day to make sure you do it with enough time to focus. You can use a Raspberry Pi to do a similar job of changing the cameras over to day/night if you have one of those using a program called sunwait Here is a post I wrote about doing so from about a year ago: Program for flipping cameras to day/night on Linux

Thanks for the link. I run a small instance of Raspberry Pi for the PiHole application so I'll check out sunwait.

 

[RyanB]

I've made some progress in the last two weeks and I updated my post with newer pictures and settings. Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[biggen]

Those aren't bad. The car at the top has a good visible plate. I run my contrast at 70 at night. I have the sharpness about where you have it. All other 'picture' sliders are at 50. I still think your shutter is still too slow. Drop the range. Just use fixed with 1/1000 or 1/2000. I don't run a back light either. Don't really need it with a fixed shutter of 1/2000. You have your iris wide open which will possibly give you depth of field issues. Move it back to 50. Also, move your Exposure Compensation back to 50. Move the 3DNR up to 40.

I also run my bit rate higher. I'm at 10000 CBR at H.265. 4192 (while isn't bad) is lower than I'd like to see for LPR. Lots of folks here running CBR @ ~8000

 

[wittaj]

Your biggest improvement will be a set shutter as I and others have posted - a range will end up causing issues. Go with 1/2000 and if that doesn't work, then try 1/1000. I would suggest try that first before making any other changes. Your shutter going from 0-2ms (1/100,000 to 1/500) will accentuate all the other settings. Try fixed shutter first and then adjust from there.

And as I mentioned before, I think the newer 5241-Z12 has different hardware in it, so settings from an older 5241-Z12 to a newer 5241-Z12 are quite different, so you have to take that into account, as well as your different location setting and angle and light and all that good stuff LOL.

 

[foxden]

I have this camera with these settings, which perfectly recognizes numbers.

 

[RyanB]

Two new pics and new settings from last night.

The pic last night at 951pm was the best capture since I got the Z12. The second picture at 527am detected the car but could not capture the license plate possibly because it was so close to sunrise.

The camera missed cars last night around 830pm and 845pm using 1/2000 and 1/1000 respectively but captured these cars at 1/500. Ironically, it also missed the 951pm car when it was driving away from the house at 950pm but caught it on the return towards the house.

I’ve uploaded the settings in place for these two pictures. The target focus of the camera is 75 ft from the house at a 35-degree angle.

I realize this is a very small sample but wanted to get your feedback. Thanks again for everyone’s comments. We're very close because of your help.

 

[biggen]

Why is your Iris still at 100%?