Supply line issues.
- Thread starter KF0FOH
- Start date
If they made the 5442 4MP cameras in the Z12 focal length, I think that would be the new king for a lot of us LOL. But I like the person to be as large as possible on the screen, so I favor a 2MP with more optical zoom than a 4MP with less optical zoom.
For objects up close, the 4K/X is an incredible performer with low light capabilities, but it does need some light. If you are ok with the white LEDs on during the night, it is a winner, but I suspect you prefer more dark and would run infrared with B/W.
But if the object is in the sweet spot distance for a 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor, it is hard to beat for the dollar.
If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.
I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.
You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.
When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal (the bandwidth is can process is a huge limiting factor), and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.
Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.
A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...
Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.
There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...
And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface. I have found the power consumption to be comparable to an NVR and even less in some instances.
Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...
For objects up close, the 4K/X is an incredible performer with low light capabilities, but it does need some light. If you are ok with the white LEDs on during the night, it is a winner, but I suspect you prefer more dark and would run infrared with B/W.
But if the object is in the sweet spot distance for a 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor, it is hard to beat for the dollar.
If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.
I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.
You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.
When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal (the bandwidth is can process is a huge limiting factor), and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.
Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.
A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...
Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.
There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...
And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface. I have found the power consumption to be comparable to an NVR and even less in some instances.
Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...
The image of the PTZ I referenced (49225) is outstanding. If you have some clear distance, the PTZ will beat any fixed cam at a distance. I can read street signs 1,400 feet away (and could probably go further but that is the limit of my viewing).One PTZ camera could replace 3 or 4 stationary cameras? How is the image? Do any have a built in mic for front door greetings?
Maybe I should rethink things. Dang. Just when I felt I had part of this nailed down.
They do not have a built-in mic because it would pick up the rotating of the camera, but you can add one to it ($10ish on Amazon is one I got and works great).
One PTZ cannot replace 3 or 4 cameras. The PTZ will always be looking the wrong way if you go just the PTZ route. But in conjunction with a few fixed cams to act as spotter cams, it provides an incredible surveillance enhancement.
By spotter cam, we mean that say the PTZ is looking left, but the fixed camera gets motion looking to the right, then the fixed camera can call up the PTZ to swing to the right to get the motion.
Griswalduk
Known around here
+1 on the larger nvr. Go for a 5216 POE. There's not much difference in cost and leaves you plenty of room for expansion. Fit 2 western digital purple HDD for redundancy and split the cameras across both.
The 5442 range are the go to cams.
There's a range of junction boxes too suit these on Andy's store.
As others have said use quality cable and i would also recommend rj45 pass through connectors and crimpers to suit. Cat 5e or 6 will do for the camera runs. Cat 5e will be slightly easier to terminate and will definitely be easier to "squeeze" into the junction boxes. Cat6 crimps are backwards compatible with cat5e cable.
See links / suggestions below. You can contact Andy empiretech directly on here and swap out the UK sources for your own local suppliers
UPS wise I'll take a pass. You'll need to decide how often the powers off and for how long. It will likely be a bit of a trade off.
As always others are welcome to debate my choices. There's more than 1 way too skin a cat
Good luck and welcome aboard
NVR
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WIRING make sure pin is facing away
My reply on another thread.
I have used an NVR in my set up but more often than not others here recommend picking up a suitable used corporate PC online. They the PC's seem to go for buttons. Add a suitable hard drive and a copy of blue iris. there's a forum section dedicated to it.
Add a POE switch and wire all cameras back to this switch. The PC goes to this switch also. Think of a star formation. The same star wiring topology also applies to a POE NVR if you choose to take that road instead
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Griswalduk
Known around here
Nope I've maybe worded badly lol.One PTZ camera could replace 3 or 4 stationary cameras? How is the image? Do any have a built in mic for front door greetings?
Maybe I should rethink things. Dang. Just when I felt I had part of this nailed down.
For the same price you can get better more reliable coverage from 4 fixed cameras than a PTZ. While i initially suggested a PTZ think of it as a luxury rather than a must have at this point
What is the realistic field of view from the 2mp starlight referenced above? Trying to envision placement.
I have an older desktop tower computer running Win XP I could possibly use. Would have to look into hardware installed. It has a wokstation system board, 8GB ram, and 500 GB (I think) hard drive. Could this work with maybe a OS reload?
I have an older desktop tower computer running Win XP I could possibly use. Would have to look into hardware installed. It has a wokstation system board, 8GB ram, and 500 GB (I think) hard drive. Could this work with maybe a OS reload?
Here is what is called the DORI table, which represents the distances to Detect, Observe, Recognize, and Identify:
In real world applications, we have found that you probably cut these in half or 75% of the value, especially at night.
For example, a 2.8mm lens to detect at night at 144 feet would be tough unless there is some ambient lighting. The IR of the camera will not reach that far unless you have everything on auto/default settings, but then motion will be a blur.
In real world applications, we have found that you probably cut these in half or 75% of the value, especially at night.
For example, a 2.8mm lens to detect at night at 144 feet would be tough unless there is some ambient lighting. The IR of the camera will not reach that far unless you have everything on auto/default settings, but then motion will be a blur.
Griswalduk
Known around here
I remember seeing an informative video explaining lens sizes, demonstrating the field of view etc but the guy was using reolink equipment lol. Before anybody asks it wasn't the hookup or whatever his name is. This was a Canadian guy and funny enough he also made videos building and fine tuning a blue iris PC.
I found this site shortly after and discovered its a case of Caveat emptor with reolink.
Equipment aside i think the theory holds true. i could dig it out for educational purposes if permissible
I found this site shortly after and discovered its a case of Caveat emptor with reolink.
Equipment aside i think the theory holds true. i could dig it out for educational purposes if permissible
I have a similar situation where there is no internet but cell phone service. I found a trail cam that allows remote access via the cell phone. Service costs around $10 a month. Might be an option for you?I am about burned out for tonight. Us old guys need our beauty sleep.I want to thank everyone that pitched in this evening. It has been enlightening. I will be back when I am fresher and more focused. Thanks again.
