Suggestions for a neighborhood wide street camera setup

[SmartPerson]

We are looking to get cameras positioned at the 2 entrances of our neighborhood. The cameras would be on street posts with server inside 2 homeowners homes if necessary, 1 at each entrance. I am looking for suggestions on how to design this from scratch; I have PoE cameras on BI at my home. I don't know if that is a good solution here as we will have 2 remote locations. I would also like to allow any neighbor access to the cameras. That bit does not seem so hard if we share passwords. The cameras will be far from the servers running them 100-200 feet. We wil want License plate detection. Pros and cons of wireless connection or battery operated cameras? Any way to access both cameras through a singular interface for neighbors?
2 remote locations
Camera location far from server
Large group access
LP recognition

Thanks!

 

[wittaj]

Calling @bigredfish

 

[sebastiantombs]

Just for starters, WiFi and battery cameras won't work for LPR, especially at night. PoE is the only way to go. That said, if there is power where the proposed locations for cameras are a dedicated, encrypted, RF link like the Ubiquity Nano Station Loco M5 can make them wireless and provide solid connections for up to a few kilometers with a clear line of sight. Also be aware that this kind of system is likely to grow as residents will want to see more than just the entrances eventually.

You can set up Blue Iris to be viewable, preferably using a VPN, so that neighbors can see the video feeds. That's not much of a problem with either one server, made possible using the RF link method, or even with dual servers. It would be more of a pain with two servers although they can be aggregated into one server that monitors both of the "remote" servers, a group can be created for the LPR cameras and users granted access to that group only.

LPR

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

LPR

Licence Plate Reader cameras

ipcamtalk.com

Review-Dahua IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E AI Varifocal Bullet

Courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY at Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling and more on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group And EmpireTech-Andy @ Amazon.com: Price Approximately $220US shipped via DHL...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[bigredfish]

Agree with @sebastiantombs Lots of things to consider.

We had internet and electric dropped at each location, house an NVR and router in a NEMA box at each. Access is through the internet. Multiple person access via SmartPSS and user roles. Works great.

Trying to use wireless or battery operated stuff I have no experience with. You won’t likely be happy with results.

 

[bigredfish]

If you want turnkey, and access for lots of folks, call EagleEye and have them give you a quote.

 

[wittaj]

Cameras connected to Wifi routers are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras through a wifi router. At the very least it can slow down your system. And then any distance will slow the speed even more.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a wifi camera and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

The same issue applies even with the hard-wired cameras trying to send all this non-buffer video stream through a router. Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues. The consumer routers are just not designed for this kind of traffic, even a GB speed router.

You either hard-wire them or ubiquity nano-station them.

Unless you spend big bucks for a truly dedicated solar system where the components are the size of half a vehicle, the consumer grade solar cameras where the battery fits in your hand will not cut it. They cannot stream high quality video all thru the night. They are motion sensing based, and the sensors are crap so all you would get from it is what time it happened, but not be able to identify anyone.

There is a person in this picture, do you see him?



I will give you a hint - he is carrying a highly reflective license plate. He is almost completely invisible due to the sensor size and algorithms of the consumer grade camera to prioritize a static image over motion video. You can kinda make out the outline of a head, but this would be useless to the police other than what time someone came by...

 

[wtimothyholman]

We are looking to get cameras positioned at the 2 entrances of our neighborhood. The cameras would be on street posts with server inside 2 homeowners homes if necessary, 1 at each entrance. I am looking for suggestions on how to design this from scratch; I have PoE cameras on BI at my home. I don't know if that is a good solution here as we will have 2 remote locations. I would also like to allow any neighbor access to the cameras. That bit does not seem so hard if we share passwords. The cameras will be far from the servers running them 100-200 feet. We wil want License plate detection. Pros and cons of wireless connection or battery operated cameras? Any way to access both cameras through a singular interface for neighbors?
2 remote locations
Camera location far from server
Large group access
LP recognition

Thanks!

The first question to be asked: what is your budget, both for initial installation and ongoing maintenance?

The answer to that question will determine what additional questions must be asked.

 

[SmartPerson]

Just for starters, WiFi and battery cameras won't work for LPR, especially at night. PoE is the only way to go. That said, if there is power where the proposed locations for cameras are a dedicated, encrypted, RF link like the Ubiquity Nano Station Loco M5 can make them wireless and provide solid connections for up to a few kilometers with a clear line of sight. Also be aware that this kind of system is likely to grow as residents will want to see more than just the entrances eventually.

You can set up Blue Iris to be viewable, preferably using a VPN, so that neighbors can see the video feeds. That's not much of a problem with either one server, made possible using the RF link method, or even with dual servers. It would be more of a pain with two servers although they can be aggregated into one server that monitors both of the "remote" servers, a group can be created for the LPR cameras and users granted access to that group only.

LPR

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

LPR

Licence Plate Reader cameras

ipcamtalk.com

Review-Dahua IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E AI Varifocal Bullet

Courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY at Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling and more on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group And EmpireTech-Andy @ Amazon.com: Price Approximately $220US shipped via DHL...

ipcamtalk.com

I am reading up on these posts, great stuff! Seems like a single good image is really what is important for LPR. WiFi is a no go. Caching is an issue, I did not think of that. What is RF an acronym for?

The first question to be asked: what is your budget, both for initial installation and ongoing maintenance?

The answer to that question will determine what additional questions must be asked.

Unknown at this time, I need to present some options to the neighborhood watch. I think the total price range would be in the low thousands as we have a neighborhood of 130 houses, 30 of which are in neighborhood watch. I think $100 per neighborhood watch household seems reasonable for initial investment

 

[bigredfish]

You’ll need 2 cameras per entrance min. One LPR one overview. That said we have expanded to 3 cameras each location with the addition of a ptz at each.

I did a fair amount of research on our little street setup. Due to trees and stuff, Ubiquity radios wouldn’t work for us.

After wrestling with it the first year, we bit the bullet and had internet and elec drops brought to each, bought a separate NVR and router for each, and house them in NEMA boxes close to each pole. NVR and cameras are hard wired from pole back to the box which also contains the cable modem from the ISP.

This way we’re not relying on homeowners to manage anything (other than me/whomever you designate as Admin), and everything can be managed over the internet. Internet costs are $90 p/mo per location. We have 41 homes in the HOA and tacked on a $5 p/mo assessment to cover that.

With $3k you’ll be on a tight budget.
With 2 cams, NVR, router at each location, plus NEMA box, you’re looking at approx $1300-1400 per location plus labor and poles. If you have existing poles and can DIY the install, you might squeak by.

 

[sebastiantombs]

RF is an acronym for "radio frequency", AKA wireless. It is dependent on a clear line of sight, no physical obstructions, because of the frequency it operates at. At UHF frequencies, where they operate at either 2.4GHz or 5GHz, the signal behaves more like light than a radio signal so having a clear line of sight is crucial. 2.4GHz does have better "penetration" and can work where 5GHz won't, but it is still limited in that sense. One way around the problem is to get up above any obstructions but that may not be aesthetically possible or physically practical.

 

[SmartPerson]

You’ll need 2 cameras per entrance min. One LPR one overview. That said we have expanded to 3 cameras each location with the addition of a ptz at each.

I did a fair amount of research on our little street setup. Due to trees and stuff, Ubiquity radios wouldn’t work for us.

After wrestling with it the first year, we bit the bullet and had internet and elec drops brought to each, bought a separate NVR and router for each, and house them in NEMA boxes close to each pole. NVR and cameras are hard wired from pole back to the box which also contains the cable modem from the ISP.

This way we’re not relying on homeowners to manage anything (other than me/whomever you designate as Admin), and everything can be managed over the internet. Internet costs are $90 p/mo per location. We have 41 homes in the HOA and tacked on a $5 p/mo assessment to cover that.

With $3k you’ll be on a tight budget.
With 2 cams, NVR, router at each location, plus NEMA box, you’re looking at approx $1300-1400 per location plus labor and poles. If you have existing poles and can DIY the install, you might squeak by.

The amount of maintenance work that may need to be done on this project is leading me towards- the most simple off the shelf solution or farming it out to a porofessional. I have so much on my plate and cannot drop everything in case these go down to trouble shoot. I will see if there are any IT professionals in the neighborhood. Thank you for those rough estimates on price. I can start floating the ideas to the group.

 

[SmartPerson]

RF is an acronym for "radio frequency", AKA wireless. It is dependent on a clear line of sight, no physical obstructions, because of the frequency it operates at. At UHF frequencies, where they operate at either 2.4GHz or 5GHz, the signal behaves more like light than a radio signal so having a clear line of sight is crucial. 2.4GHz does have better "penetration" and can work where 5GHz won't, but it is still limited in that sense. One way around the problem is to get up above any obstructions but that may not be aesthetically possible or physically practical.

OK so the same frequencies my router uses, or my sons RC car. we have lots of huge trees in the neighborhood. It probably won't work between the 2 camera positions

 

[bigredfish]

The amount of maintenance work that may need to be done on this project is leading me towards- the most simple off the shelf solution or farming it out to a porofessional. I have so much on my plate and cannot drop everything in case these go down to trouble shoot. I will see if there are any IT professionals in the neighborhood. Thank you for those rough estimates on price. I can start floating the ideas to the group.

In that case I would seriously look into and call Eagle Eye for a quote.
Many here myself included tend to poo poo cloud based systems, but they have come a long way, and EEs system is state of the art and can be 100% turnkey

 

[bigredfish]

The amount of maintenance work that may need to be done on this project is leading me towards- the most simple off the shelf solution or farming it out to a porofessional. I have so much on my plate and cannot drop everything in case these go down to trouble shoot. I will see if there are any IT professionals in the neighborhood. Thank you for those rough estimates on price. I can start floating the ideas to the group.

Note that’s assuming DIY.
Having a contractor do it I’ll bet you exceed $10K

 

[sebastiantombs]

I didn't mean to use the RF links between the two entrances. In my mind they would be used at each entrance and aimed at one common point where the VMS is. Yes, it's in the same bands that normal WiFi uses but are actually on different frequencies and the signal is encrypted to provide good security.

It would help if you posted a few photos of each entrance, looking both inward and outward, and a rough sketch, with distances, even approximate distances, of the overall layout. A much better assessment could be made that way.