Smart Home Security with Limitations

nate779

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I’m looking to record security footage of my barn. There can be foot traffic to it and I would like to be able to identify faces and license plates.
I currently have 2 cameras, both are a Wyze cam 3. One of the cameras is inside while the other is outside.

The problem I face is the barn does not get good Wi-Fi (using a TPLink EAP 110 Outdoor Directional AP), so the bitrate of the cameras is poor and this the quality of the video suffers. I am unable to easily view faces or make out license plates. I believe the Mbps on average is around 3, with varying packet loss based on weather conditions. I may consider upgrading to a better model.

I’m looking for cameras that will be able to locally record content (with smart features like person or vehicle awareness) so that when the Wi-Fi quality suffers the quality of the recording does not. The outdoor camera should be able to see a license plate about 30 feet away (max) and the indoor camera needs to make out faces well. I would be okay with a wired or wireless solution.

Any suggestions?
 

sebastiantombs

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:welcome:

Start out by reading the Wiki in the blue bar at the top of the page on a real computer, not a tablet or phone. That will get you "grounded" in how to set up a video surveillance system that actually works. Wyse, and all the other plug-n-play cameras, are not really capable of doing what your goals are.

Do not chase megapixels, chase sensor size. There is a direct relationship between resolution and the size of a sensor to produce good video in low or no light situations. Remember these sensors are shown in fractional sizes so they are inversely proportional, IE a 1/3" sensor is smaller than a 1/2.7" sensor. They are also a fraction of the size of the sensors used in cell phones and especially in DSLR cameras.

The next thing is lens size, focal length. Wyse, and all of those cameras, always offer wide, sweeping, views that look impressive. The problem is that all detail is lost to get that wide view. A camera with a 2.8mm lens will not produce a useable identification shot unless the subject is within 15 feet or less of the camera, and that 15 feet is being generous. It's more like 11 feet or so.

The next problem is mounting height of the camera. A camera needs to be o higher than about 7 and a half feet to produce good facial identification. Mounting them higher results in nice shots of the top of heads. That can be mitigated if the camera is higher than 7-1/2 feet and further away bt that requires a longer focal length.

The smartest thing to do is to buy a good varifocal camera, set it up in a test rig, use the built in GUI of the camera and test each proposed location. That allows you to find the right focal length, there's a converter in the Wiki, and also lets you become familiar with all the adjustments required to maximize the performance of the camera. Wyse, and all of those, keep things on automatic which is not optimal and rarely, if ever, actually produces the quality level that a camera is capable of.

In terms of connecting back to a remote location you can use a dedicated, encrypted, RF link like the Ubiquity Nano Station Loco M5. It is a dedicated point-to-point link and will span several kilometers if needed and will easily handle a half dozen, or more cameras simultaneously.

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Disclaimer - These sizes are what the manufacturers advertise and may, or may not, be the true size of the sensor in the camera.
720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Focal length, lens size, is another critical element in camera selection. A 2.8mm lens will produce a nice wide view but will be useless for identification at distances greater than abut 10 or 15 feet.

Compiled by wittaj

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.

Compiled by mat200 -

A collection of various consumer grade failures -

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Keep in mind that it may take two cameras, or more, to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

Again, courtesy of Wittaj -

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

Review - 8MP 1/1.2" sensor full color camera




Dual Sensor 4K

5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

3241T-ZAS Review

PTZ Cameras

180 Degree FOV 4K

Less expensive models -

Ubiquity Nano Station Loco M5

TP Link Bridge
 
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.

nate779

n3wb
Joined
Sep 16, 2022
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Location
United States
:welcome:

Start out by reading the Wiki in the blue bar at the top of the page on a real computer, not a tablet or phone. That will get you "grounded" in how to set up a video surveillance system that actually works. Wyse, and all the other plug-n-play cameras, are not really capable of doing what your goals are.

Do not chase megapixels, chase sensor size. There is a direct relationship between resolution and the size of a sensor to produce good video in low or no light situations. Remember these sensors are shown in fractional sizes so they are inversely proportional, IE a 1/3" sensor is smaller than a 1/2.7" sensor. They are also a fraction of the size of the sensors used in cell phones and especially in DSLR cameras.

The next thing is lens size, focal length. Wyse, and all of those cameras, always offer wide, sweeping, views that look impressive. The problem is that all detail is lost to get that wide view. A camera with a 2.8mm lens will not produce a useable identification shot unless the subject is within 15 feet or less of the camera, and that 15 feet is being generous. It's more like 11 feet or so.

The next problem is mounting height of the camera. A camera needs to be o higher than about 7 and a half feet to produce good facial identification. Mounting them higher results in nice shots of the top of heads. That can be mitigated if the camera is higher than 7-1/2 feet and further away bt that requires a longer focal length.

The smartest thing to do is to buy a good varifocal camera, set it up in a test rig, use the built in GUI of the camera and test each proposed location. That allows you to find the right focal length, there's a converter in the Wiki, and also lets you become familiar with all the adjustments required to maximize the performance of the camera. Wyse, and all of those, keep things on automatic which is not optimal and rarely, if ever, actually produces the quality level that a camera is capable of.

In terms of connecting back to a remote location you can use a dedicated, encrypted, RF link like the Ubiquity Nano Station Loco M5. It is a dedicated point-to-point link and will span several kilometers if needed and will easily handle a half dozen, or more cameras simultaneously.

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Disclaimer - These sizes are what the manufacturers advertise and may, or may not, be the true size of the sensor in the camera.
720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Focal length, lens size, is another critical element in camera selection. A 2.8mm lens will produce a nice wide view but will be useless for identification at distances greater than abut 10 or 15 feet.

Compiled by wittaj

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.

Compiled by mat200 -

A collection of various consumer grade failures -

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Keep in mind that it may take two cameras, or more, to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

Again, courtesy of Wittaj -

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

Review - 8MP 1/1.2" sensor full color camera




Dual Sensor 4K

5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

3241T-ZAS Review

PTZ Cameras

180 Degree FOV 4K

Less expensive models -

Ubiquity Nano Station Loco M5

TP Link Bridge

Thank you for the information there is a lot to take in here. Now that I see there is a lot more to cameras I might need some additional help. Firstly I'm going to return my Wyze Cam 3's as they will not cut it. Secondly I'd like to ask your recommendation for my budget and needs.

I have a few needs, ordered by priority:
1. Record faces of those who enter the building and what they are doing
2. Record the license plates of cars that enter the property.
3. Remote access
4. Local storage
5. Software with smart detection


Some more details about my needs:
1. Face and activity recording

The building is a 15' x 15' x 17' there are no obstructions. There is one entrance/exit. Located directly in front of the people will be a cash box, to the left and of the entrance are goods. Depending on the season there are also goods placed outside the building, which may need to be monitored by the
LPR camera or another camera should that be necessary.

2. Car / License plate recognition

To enter the property there is one driveway. The parking lot surrounds the building and can hold only 3-4 cars. The building sits about 30 feet away from the farthest point of the exit/entrance.

3.
The footage should be remotely accessible (the TPLINK EAP110 does not cut it ~1.5Mbps Down and ~2.5Mbps Up with latency from 27-2400ms under load.) What solution would you recommend for this? The barn is 300 feet (in clear view without obstruction) to the house. The wifi signal is better outside the barn (about 4x as strong), so something like Wi-Fi v6 isnt going to cut it.

4.
The footage can be stored in the building locally, or it can be streamed if the connection is stable (to a NAS or something in the house), I have experience with Ubuntu Server, TrueNAS, and Windows Server(s).

5.
The software package used (i.e. blue iris) should be able to use smart detection features. Be accessible on mobile and have other basic security features.

My budget to start will be around $500. What are your recommendations?
 
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.

mat200

IPCT Contributor
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I’m looking to record security footage of my barn. There can be foot traffic to it and I would like to be able to identify faces and license plates.
I currently have 2 cameras, both are a Wyze cam 3. One of the cameras is inside while the other is outside.

The problem I face is the barn does not get good Wi-Fi (using a TPLink EAP 110 Outdoor Directional AP), so the bitrate of the cameras is poor and this the quality of the video suffers. I am unable to easily view faces or make out license plates. I believe the Mbps on average is around 3, with varying packet loss based on weather conditions. I may consider upgrading to a better model.

I’m looking for cameras that will be able to locally record content (with smart features like person or vehicle awareness) so that when the Wi-Fi quality suffers the quality of the recording does not. The outdoor camera should be able to see a license plate about 30 feet away (max) and the indoor camera needs to make out faces well. I would be okay with a wired or wireless solution.

Any suggestions?
Welcome @nate779

You're probably going to need to solve the connectivity issues to the barn first ..

Search for Ubiquiti Wireless solutions to this in the forum .. many have posted good info on solutions for buildings in rural areas like farm buildings ..

update: see the links @sebastiantombs posted ..
Ubiquity Nano Station Loco M5
TP Link Bridge
 
Last edited:

wittaj

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@nate779 sorry your post got derailed, so let's get it back on track.

I would agree with what @sebastiantombs mentions.

In the short-term, you could get some capable cameras with an SD card and keep the system local within the barn (that you could only access there) until you get more funds or decide the best approach to get internet connectivity to the barn. You could start with one 5442 camera and the 5421-Z12E for plates to start and stay close to your budget after you add cables and SD cards.

But thinking down the road, you have to decide, do you want plates or overview, you cannot have both with one camera, especially if you do not have enough light.

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

1663359046927.png
 

mat200

IPCT Contributor
Joined
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Thank you for the information there is a lot to take in here. Now that I see there is a lot more to cameras I might need some additional help. Firstly I'm going to return my Wyze Cam 3's as they will not cut it. Secondly I'd like to ask your recommendation for my budget and needs.

I have a few needs, ordered by priority:
1. Record faces of those who enter the building and what they are doing
2. Record the license plates of cars that enter the property.
3. Remote access
4. Local storage
5. Software with smart detection


Some more details about my needs:
1. Face and activity recording

The building is a 15' x 15' x 17' there are no obstructions. There is one entrance/exit. Located directly in front of the people will be a cash box, to the left and of the entrance are goods. Depending on the season there are also goods placed outside the building, which may need to be monitored by the
LPR camera or another camera should that be necessary.

2. Car / License plate recognition

To enter the property there is one driveway. The parking lot surrounds the building and can hold only 3-4 cars. The building sits about 30 feet away from the farthest point of the exit/entrance.

3.
The footage should be remotely accessible (the TPLINK EAP110 does not cut it ~1.5Mbps Down and ~2.5Mbps Up with latency from 27-2400ms under load.) What solution would you recommend for this? The barn is 300 feet (in clear view without obstruction) to the house. The wifi signal is better outside the barn (about 4x as strong), so something like Wi-Fi v6 isnt going to cut it.

4.
The footage can be stored in the building locally, or it can be streamed if the connection is stable (to a NAS or something in the house), I have experience with Ubuntu Server, TrueNAS, and Windows Server(s).

5.
The software package used (i.e. blue iris) should be able to use smart detection features. Be accessible on mobile and have other basic security features.

My budget to start will be around $500. What are your recommendations?

Hi @nate779

"My budget to start will be around $500. What are your recommendations?"

Sounds like a small budget and a big wish list.
 
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