Slowly going crazy - help with setting cams

Jul 19, 2024
4
3
Poland
Hello everybody!

I've been reading this forum for some time trying to get some knowledge and set cams in my front yard.

But I'm losing hope to get what I want and register to ask for help.

I have two cams currently:
1. Hikvision DS-2CD2047G2-L - which is my overview cam.
2. HWI-B640HA-Z - which I use zoomed onto front of the gate.

Cams settings:
4mp
CBR
FPS 18
Iframe 18
H265

Both of them are 'installed' outside the window at the attic. The distance between the house and the gate is around 8 meters (26 feet).

I attached photos from cameras during the day and night.

192.168.1.63_01_20240719150718314.jpg192.168.1.64_01_20240719150606923.jpg192.168.1.64_01_20240719151914759.jpg

I would like to identify people walking in front of the gate. During the day faces are possible to identify. The problem is the night time.

I know that there is probably too little light and am thinking about switching to IR and mounting separate IR reflector.

What do you suggest?
 
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Post examples of people walking at night time. Static images mean nothing.

Are you on default/auto settings or have you manually set the shutter?

Keep in mind your overview camera cannot see infrared.

In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures and help the camera recognize people and cars.

Start with:

H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes

Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.

We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image. But try not to go above 70 for anything and try to have contrast be at least 7-10 digits higher than brightness.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
 
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Thank you for your quick response.

I will post some pics in motion later in the day.

I set shutter manually to 1/60.

I know about the overview cam limitation, but it doesn't bother me because it's just it - overview and it's doing good job.
 
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You're not going to get great facial ID with settings, the camera is too high
 
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Here are some shots in motion.

Screenshot 2024-07-20 182426.pngScreenshot 2024-07-20 182515.png


You're not going to get great facial ID with settings, the camera is too high

Yeah, I thought so...

I'm thinking of buying another camera and mount it on the tree near the fence. It will be close to gate so I should have better image. This camera I will use as LPR.

These are two cameras I'm interested in:

Hikvision DS-2CD1047G2H-LIU(F)
Hikvision DS-2CD2026G2-I(U)

Which one would be better? Or maybe I should choose another?

Thank you all for your help.
 
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I'm afraid I don';t know the HiK camera models well enough to say.

But you need a faster shutter (exposure) and less DNR thats why its ghosting.
Nighttime color is much harder than most think. You need to be running 1/120 or so min to freeze human motion. Which makes things darker as @wittaj said, which means you need even more light.

You also have a backlight condition, light shining towards the camera instead of out away from it. Only way to fix that is add a white light shining out OR run IR and then you'll be throwing IR towards the subject.

Its ALL about light either white or IR
 
Try shutter between 4-8ms (4ms preferably (that's between 1/250 - 1/125 if it works in DSLR camera terms)). Keep gain below 50. I'd highly recommend 4ms for blur avoidance.
 
Okay, so I've tried multiple settings today.

With shutter 1/250 and gain below 50 image is very dark - can't see anything.
Only a little better with 1/125.

Currently I set it on 1/60 on IR. It's not perfect and I think I will have to buy another camera and mount it closer.

I also thought about buying 32mm lens camera and putting it in the same spot that my current cam is.

What do you think about this?
 
Yes and add light. Either white light (built into camera like the 4K-X) or off camera IR