Should I go new SSD or whole new computer?

[nbstl68]

So after months of random issues and wasted time testing everything out, my SATA SSD crapped out. Other than that my system is, "old" but ran decent.

I used it primarily for BI w\ about 10 2MP Dahua cameras but also for VM Horizon work from home + basic internet ever since the Covid New world order takeover.
I know some disagree w using the computer for both but it worked out fine for me.

So, given my system's age, (2017 and limitations, and primarily the fact that as-is it cannot run Win 11 w the current processor and will thus not have security or other updates after 10/2024, I am torn as to spending a couple hundred bucks on a new, (larger) SSD vs. up to $1k for a whole new powerhouse, (if I can get a newest chip\cool stuff setup for a grand.)

The current setup, if running well, was more than enough at the moment.
17-6700
24GB RAM
SSD (dead)
Secondary WD Purple 8TB for storage, (holds about 3-4 weeks 24/7 recording for the cams I have now).

Cons-
No room for expansion of additional drives on MB nor any additional power connectors on PSU.
1 NVME connector, which is conveniently blocked by the graphics card that is in there. So replacement SSD would still have to use older style SATA 2.5" drive.

If I went new, (purch or build maybe), I'd go with the newest CPU, (i5 or i7) and would have to research if I even needed a graphics card or if whatever onboard was sufficient.
With discussion here of no longer needing to use HA for offloading work for BI, is a graphics card\GPU a moot point?

The geek in me wants to spend $ to have a nice new rig that will take me through the next 10 years. Buy or build? I have not built one in years so would have to re-learn a lot.
The cheap-o in me wants to not worry about security\bugs\malware and just replace the SSD and be done.

Opinions please?

 

[wittaj]

No reason to overspend.

A 6th gen would still be the recommended computer if Win11 wasn't out. Does your 6th gen have an optical disk slot that you could use that SATA slot to add another drive?

Now that Win11 is out, the recommended computer is an 8th gen as that is the first gen that supports Win11.

Graphics card is only needed if you plan to do a lot of CodeProject AI. I have an 8th gen running a lot of cameras and CodeProject on 5 of them and the CPU hums at 1% and jumps to 10% with a lot of activity.

So even if you decide to simply replace the SSD and stay with your 6th gen and Win10, it is still more secure than an NVR that sees maybe 3 firmware updates.

Buy a cheap computer for your daily and make this computer only used for BI and you aren't surfing the net and other things, the risk is minimized about security/malware. Plus Windows Defender keeps getting updated.

Contrast that with an NVR that has ZERO anti-virus protection on it.

 

[Ssayer]

My standalone BI machine is a I7-3770. I have 28 IP cams, 2 USB cams, and 3 Blank screen with overlay "cams" running on it. I have numerous tablets taking various feeds from it throughout the house and garage. As I look over at it right now, it's at 40% CPU (I don't use any AI). Your machine would be just fine as a BI standalone (which is the only way I would run it, otherwise I'd just be asking for extraneous trouble). SSDs are cheap cheap cheap...

Edit: It won't run Win11, but it doesn't NEED Win11...

 

[mat200]

So after months of random issues and wasted time testing everything out, my SATA SSD crapped out. Other than that my system is, "old" but ran decent.

I used it primarily for BI w\ about 10 2MP Dahua cameras but also for VM Horizon work from home + basic internet ever since the Covid New world order takeover.
I know some disagree w using the computer for both but it worked out fine for me.

So, given my system's age, (2017 and limitations, and primarily the fact that as-is it cannot run Win 11 w the current processor and will thus not have security or other updates after 10/2024, I am torn as to spending a couple hundred bucks on a new, (larger) SSD vs. up to $1k for a whole new powerhouse, (if I can get a newest chip\cool stuff setup for a grand.)

The current setup, if running well, was more than enough at the moment.
17-6700
24GB RAM
SSD (dead)
Secondary WD Purple 8TB for storage, (holds about 3-4 weeks 24/7 recording for the cams I have now).

Cons-
No room for expansion of additional drives on MB nor any additional power connectors on PSU.
1 NVME connector, which is conveniently blocked by the graphics card that is in there. So replacement SSD would still have to use older style SATA 2.5" drive.

If I went new, (purch or build maybe), I'd go with the newest CPU, (i5 or i7) and would have to research if I even needed a graphics card or if whatever onboard was sufficient.
With discussion here of no longer needing to use HA for offloading work for BI, is a graphics card\GPU a moot point?

The geek in me wants to spend $ to have a nice new rig that will take me through the next 10 years. Buy or build? I have not built one in years so would have to re-learn a lot.
The cheap-o in me wants to not worry about security\bugs\malware and just replace the SSD and be done.

Opinions please?

HI @nbstl68

I would keep the i7-6700 PC alive for longer unless you've been hitting a CPU limit issue after tuning the BI parameters ..

 

[nbstl68]

After tuning the BI params and tweaks, (using substreams, etc. based on the forum recommendations), my CPU was generally always running around 20% W 5% flux either direction at any given moment. It was not a big diff W HA on or off.

It does have an optical drive but wanted to use that for an addtl WD Purple backup at some point if I were to keep it.
I could pull the Vid card and then use the NVME slot for primary SSD if vid card was not needed I guess.
I have not played w AI yet and not familiar with CodeProject AI, but sounds like I'd need some kind of vid card if I did ever do that.

The only antivirus I run is the Win Defender. If that will continue to be updated, is there really a security risk? I read no system, bug or security updates for Win10 and assumed that would mean Defender or anything else would not be updated after 10/24.


Is the whole no Win11 thing about the CPU only? Maybe I could upgrade to an 8th gen at some point but looks like the MB specs show inly upgrades to 7700 series.

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05369438

 

[wittaj]

Unless you plan to do a lot of CodeProject, you don't need a video card. For many of us the AI of the camera is sufficient enough. Many here run CodeProject just fine with the CPU version without a video card.

Windows Defender isn't specific to Win10 and is the default for Win11 so they would have to force it to not run on Win10, and not sure why they would do that as they haven't done it for even older versions of Windows.

Right now one of the controversial requirements to run Windows 11 is a TPM 2.0 chip. This chip is on the PC's motherboard and handles encryption and is only on MBs that support 8th gen and higher.

 

[mat200]

After tuning the BI params and tweaks, (using substreams, etc. based on the forum recommendations), my CPU was generally always running around 20% W 5% flux either direction at any given moment. It was not a big diff W HA on or off.

It does have an optical drive but wanted to use that for an addtl WD Purple backup at some point if I were to keep it.
I could pull the Vid card and then use the NVME slot for primary SSD if vid card was not needed I guess.
I have not played w AI yet and not familiar with CodeProject AI, but sounds like I'd need some kind of vid card if I did ever do that.

The only antivirus I run is the Win Defender. If that will continue to be updated, is there really a security risk? I read no system, bug or security updates for Win10 and assumed that would mean Defender or anything else would not be updated after 10/24.


Is the whole no Win11 thing about the CPU only? Maybe I could upgrade to an 8th gen at some point but looks like the MB specs show inly upgrades to 7700 series.

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05369438

HI @nbstl68

the 8th gen CPUs have an easy upgrade path to win 11 ..

the 6th gen I have read you can get them to win 11 but it takes more IT / tech work .. ( that is the OS will attempt to refuse to do an upgrade and you need to get around that .. )

 

[bp2008]

Windows 10's end of support is not in 2024. It is October 2025.

 

[nbstl68]

OK thanks all!
From this discussion I think I'll just replace the SSD and keep this machine going a little longer.
Sounds like some research will need to be done to figure out if there is a work-around to Win 11 but prob not since the MB, it appears from specs, can only accept up to a 7700 chip and no idea about the TMP 2.0 thing.
I am not too concerned w AI and at some point may jist upgrade to newer cameras if I want that. ANLPR did interest me but don't have the time to put into figuring that out or if it would req a vid card also.

* If Windows Defender will have continued updates is there really any risk to running Win10 past its end date?

I want to upgrade the SATA III SSD that failed to a 1 or 2 TB drive.
Any recommendations on best brand options there reliability and perf wise?

If I can squeeze in a NVME SSD next to the Vid card, would that be preferable over a 2.5" SATASSD?

 

[bp2008]

I wouldn't be majorly concerned with OS security updates on a dedicated Blue Iris box anyway. Consider that the average NVR hardware appliance rarely (if ever) gets updated and is almost certainly harboring worse security holes.

By simply not using the machine for web browsing, email, etc, you avoid the most common infection routes. I daresay an unpatched machine that is properly dedicated to Blue Iris is safer than a fully patched machine that is used to browse the web and download untrusted files.

Even if you port forward to the machine, the weakest link is likely going to be Blue Iris, not the operating system it is running on.

 

[bp2008]

I want to upgrade the SATA III SSD that failed to a 1 or 2 TB drive.
Any recommendations on best brand options there reliability and perf wise?

If I can squeeze in a NVME SSD next to the Vid card, would that be preferable over a 2.5" SATASSD?

Samsung is generally one of the best, also not the cheapest. I don't know where to find SSD reliability statistics with a meaningful sample size.

NVMe is almost always faster than SATA, but the difference will be pretty much irrelevant for Blue Iris.

 

[Virga]

I was in a similar quandary recently – Win 10 sixth gen i5-6500 CPU running BI in a satisfactory manner.
Elected to spring $227 and move to a 12th gen i5-12600K CPU, and that includes a new motherboard.
New mobo because sixth gen ran in a LGA1151 socket, then came LGA1155, then LGA1200, and the current LGA1700 socket is on its last legs, next gen CPU is expected to be LGA1851.
All other parts moved over from the original PC.
Having some headroom on the hardware, and Win 11, for me were elective, and I went for it.

Another $115 got me a current monitor.
When I got into BI in early 2023, I “dusted off” some hardware on the shelf and jumped in.
The monitors I was using with the BI PC were from early in the advent of flat panels (gasp!).
$227 + $115 = $342 got me to a good place, and there was an element of wanting a hardware fix, whether a need or not.

One path forward in your dilemma might be to identify parts to upgrade in your BI PC, and keep an eye on them. Each newer iteration of components released also means prices on prior ones drop.
Every now and then there are good buying opportunities in the PC components marketplace.
I paid $126 for the CPU, and lesser/older CPUs could not be had for a meaningfully lesser amount.
An iteration or two prior to the latest are often good buys and have future headroom.

Also:
I’ve always gone with well regarded brands of components.
Lately I’m starting to look at lesser-known brands, because the technology is now commoditized on things like SSDs and monitors.
If there is no material price difference and slots are available, I’d go with NVMe rather than SATA drives.

Finally, it turns out that swapping PC parts is simpler than it might initially appear.
... just like getting into ipcams in the first place!

 

[nbstl68]

I just found and ordered a Samsung 990 PRO NVMe 2TB for $170. Not too bad a price these days and it was about the same price as the SATA. So that will free up the SATA connection to use for an additional WD Purple for addtl storage.
So this should work out well.
I'll keep an eye out for an 8th gen & decent MOBO for future consideration.

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[Virga]

The Samsung 990 Pro is a M.2 "form factor" card.
Does the motherboard in your PC have an M.2 port available?
Expansion slots that take cards such as the graphics/video card on a motherboard are usually PCIe.

 

[nbstl68]

I believe this is correct for it. I have not used one before. It says M.2 SSD socket 3, Key M" Not sure what the keyM part means but from what I searched it should work even though I believe this board it said was PCIE3 and the SSD was PCIe4, it should be backward compatible so just won't get the full benefit but doubt I'd ever reach the max use case anyway.

So I should be ok, right?

 

[bp2008]

Yes, PCIe backwards compatibility is good. The SSD should work fine in that board.

 

[Virga]

Yes, best as I can tell you should be OK.
M.2's have different "key" specs - looks like this mobo has one key M and one key A.
If there is no heat sink for the M.2 slots, might be worthwhile getting the version of the card with an OEM heat sink - these days they seem to go for +$5.

This will of course vary from mobo to mobo, but here is an extract from the manual of the old mobo I replaced:
"If M2_1 is occupied by a SATA-type M.2 device, SATA3_0, SATA3_1 and the SATA function of SATA_EXP0 will be disabled."

Also:
Looks like this is a microATX mobo.
If so, plenty of possibilities if and when you swap the mobo and CPU, while keeping all/most other components.
More M.2 slots, two NICs, etc.

https://support.hp.com/ph-en/document/c05369438

 

[nbstl68]

Hmm... Hope the current SATA won't be disabled when using this NVMe M.2 That is the board basically except mine is green but all the same stuff\layout.
Thx