Required bandwidth is only 15Mbps?

[kd4e]

When I look at switches the modern ones are all 1000 base-T/1g for each port.

Am I correct (after reading a dozen discussions and pages) that a 5.0MP 2560x1920 continuous camera video feed at 30fps only requires 15Mbps (a tiny fraction of 1g)?

Or, am I missing something?

 

[lane777smith]

that's correct.

 

[Mike A.]

You're missing at what bit rate and whether variable or not but, yeah, they don't use all that much bandwidth in the scheme of things. Most cams only have a 10/100 interface to begin with. I don't have it running at 30 FPS but a 5 MP cam I have running at 15 shows ~8 Mbps. BI shows all 22 of my cameras at ~154 Mbps.

 

[kd4e]

You're missing at what bit rate and whether variable or not but, yeah, they don't use all that much bandwidth in the scheme of things. Most cams only have a 10/100 interface to begin with. I don't have it running at 30 FPS but a 5 MP cam I have running at 15 shows ~8 Mbps. BI shows all 22 of my cameras at ~154 Mbps.

With so little bandwidth required - why do I read about concerns for router bottlenecks? Is it because the camera streams are competing with data streams? Is a managed switch that uses QoS, or some other priority-management tool, a good solution?

 

[bigredfish]

Most often the bandwidth issue is with the recording machine constraints, be it PC based or NVR

With Wifi cameras it can indeed saturate the network router. I've done that with just 2 4MP wifi cameras. Typically the streams from the connected PoE cameras are not going directly through the router

 

[kd4e]

Most often the bandwidth issue is with the recording machine constraints, be it PC based or NVR

With Wifi cameras it can indeed saturate the network router/switch. I've done that with just 2 4MP wifi cameras. Typically the streams from the connected PoE cameras are not going directly through the router

We have 3 wifi routers - one master and two slaved - all the same model Asus. It sounds as though the best strategy is to avoid wifi cams?

 

[Mike A.]

That's just the switching side. Most all switching hardware can handle full line speed of all ports no problem. But that's separate from whatever else is happening on the router beyond that level.

Yes, POE is the much better way to go.

 

[wittaj]

With so little bandwidth required - why do I read about concerns for router bottlenecks? Is it because the camera streams are competing with data streams? Is a managed switch that uses QoS, or some other priority-management tool, a good solution?

Cameras connected to Wifi routers (whether wifi cameras or not) are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras through a wifi router. At the very least it can slow down your entire system.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a camera connected to a router and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

The same issue applies even with the hard-wired cameras trying to send all this non-buffer video stream through a router. Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues. The consumer routers are just not designed for this kind of traffic, even a GB speed router. QoS doesn't help and over time the lost packets add up and bring the router to its knees.

We see stuff like this all the time here, including just last week. As soon as someone takes the camera traffic load off the router everything improves, just like the guy last week.

 

[kd4e]

Cool.

I'll start by only dealing with the non-wifi cams - wiring them directly to a switch - then to the computer with the software NVR (the current plan is Frigate & openHAB).

I'll let openHAB manage remote access to the camera.

Does that sound right?

Should I prefer a managed POE switch over an unmanaged POE switch - if for no other reason - for an extra layer of security from remote access?

 

[Mike A.]

Yes, everything goes to a switch (or switches).

The only downside of a managed switch is that it cost a little more. Depends on the switch but generally gives you more capabilities as far as VLANs, insight into traffic flow/errors, in some cases gives you some useful features like estimating distance to faults and will let you cycle the power to a port to restart a cam.

 

[kd4e]

Yes, everything goes to a switch (or switches).

The only downside of a managed switch is that it cost a little more. Depends on the switch but generally gives you more capabilities as far as VLANs, insight into traffic flow/errors, in some cases gives you some useful features like estimating distance to faults and will let you cycle the power to a port to restart a cam.

Is the use of multiple smaller unmanaged POE+ switches (to shorten the power runs) - then the switches fed to a single managed non-POE SPF+ switch an OK plan?

 

[Alaska Country]

Is the use of multiple smaller unmanaged POE+ switches (to shorten the power runs) - then the switches fed to a single managed non-POE SPF+ switch an OK plan?

Works well.

Use a number of Netgear 5 port POE switches with one line (CAT-5) back to the main POE switch. A 10/100 remote switch will work well on the camera end. Usually figure 10 megs per camera thus a 4 port switch is lightly loaded.

Plus the remote switch can used any of the 10/100 ports on the main POE switch in place of the 1 gig port as these are limited in most cases. The negative side of a remote POE switch deals with providing power. Some use a small UPS for each switch. If not, then that part of the network will be down in the event of a power failure.

Overall, it save a lot of time running more CAT-5 cable.

 

[Mike A.]

I suppose details matter and benefits/drawbacks given specifics, but generally that will work fine as far as basic functions. Can affect how/whether you can set up VLANs. And you won't have the full benefit of some of the examples I mentioned. e.g., You won't be able to toggle power to a port on another switch, traffic would be aggregated for whatever is behind a port where a switch is connected to, etc. But it will function just fine.

 

[kd4e]

This switch at $38. (8 ports, 120w, 100Mbps uplink) looks interesting

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0899NR75K/

I'd add a little noctua fan (efficient and really quiet) to vent the power supply heat.

 

[looney2ns]

This switch at $38. (8 ports, 120w, 100Mbps uplink) looks interesting

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0899NR75K/

I'd add a little noctua fan (efficient and really quiet) to vent the power supply heat.

Inexpensive switches such as the one you linked, can be problematic. The power supplies in them are not very robust. Some will have trouble booting up while under load.
A switch is the last place you want to cut corners, if you want your cameras to be reliable.
Stick with Netgear Prosafe or Tplink switches.

 

[looktall]

Most often the bandwidth issue is with the recording machine constraints, be it PC based or NVR

I feel like this was glossed over.
It's important enough to mention again.

There's no point making sure your network can handle say 200mbs if you're sending that data to an NVR that can only handle 150mbs.

You have to look at the entire bandwidth requirement from where data starts to where it lands.

 

[kd4e]

I feel like this was glossed over.
It's important enough to mention again.

There's no point making sure your network can handle say 200mbs if you're sending that data to an NVR that can only handle 150mbs.

You have to look at the entire bandwidth requirement from where data starts to where it lands.

It's all passing through separate POE switches to a non-poe managed switch and then to a Dell Optiplex 7060 SFF 3.0 GHz Core i5-8500 (it ramps up to 4.1GHz under load) 16GB RAM (will be upgraded to 64GB) 256GB SSD (will be supplemented with a 2TB NVMe and a 1TB HDD). Chipset is a Q370 and GPU is a GeForce GTX 1650 Low Profile. Software will be Frigate (a major rewrite is due this Summer, meanwhile I'll live with the current limitations) and openHAB under Linux. As I understand the way things work - there should be no problems handling the traffic. (Note: The home router will not be involved - except for external access - and that shouldn't be a problem.)