Replacement for a camera dropping frames

[jlindblo]

I have a SVC IP POE 1080P 2.8 - 12 MM that covers a playground but is missing recordings I think, because BI Status shows iframes as .20 so I'm looking for a replacement camera. BI is 4 and we are replacing it's current i5 2500 computer server with a Dell XPS 8940. The playground camera needs to be able to identify adult to child interactions accurately. Most activity is daytime with the farthest distance about 120' and the width about the same. First, could I have settings in BI that are dragging down the FPS/ key for that camera? I see that it is no longer available online also. I was thinking of a Hikvision 8K bullet camera replacement if that is not overkill ... or would a 4K Hikvision do just as well? We do have a Hikvision DS-2CD2032 3MP 1080p for our parking lot which might be adequate?

 

[wittaj]

BI does not interact with the camera that way to impact FPS and KEY. It simply takes what is given to it. The cheaper cameras play with the iframe rate to give a nice static image, but then you get the problems like you see where it misses motion. A KEY of .20 means that BI could take up to 5 seconds to recognize the motion, and in many field of views, 5 seconds is enough time for an object to be in and out of the picture. BI recommends a KEY of 1.00, but no less than 0.50.

The most famous cameras that do this switching of FPS and iframes is Reolink.

Blue Iris and Reolinks (and many cheap cameras) do not work well together, but the same principles applies for almost any low end consumer grade camera. It is just Reolinks is one of the more consumer end cameras people buy and come to this site as to why it is pointed out often about. I have a cheapo camera for overview purposes so it doesn't matter, but it exhibits this same behavior even though in the settings I can set an iframe...

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.

Regarding the next camera, it is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

 

[jlindblo]

Wow .... Great information. And I've been looking for a couple of days now. I'll start my research tomorrow ... I really appreciate your response.

 

[SouthernYankee]

What version of BI are you running? You should upgrade to a stable version that supports substreams.
Also you have network problems, why so many no single errors ?
Are you using WIFI cameras, if so that is your main problem.

 

[jlindblo]

What version of BI are you running? You should upgrade to a stable version that supports substreams.
Also you have network problems, why so many no single errors ?
Are you using WIFI cameras, if so that is your main problem.

Thank you for your response. Blue Iris 4.0. We are upgrading the BI Server computer so the intent was to make the switch over as easy as possible for now and save that for a later time. Not sure what you mean by "no single errors" but if it's the "554" ip appends it could be because all cameras with 554 are older Logitech Alert. Not sure on that and I'll have to ask Google on that.. No wifi cameras on that system.

 

[wittaj]

He means look at the far right and it shows how many times the cameras reported "No signal". Looks like the cameras have been up for 8 days since the last BI restart or restart of the camera in BI and your cameras are reporting anywhere from twice a day to 15 times per day losing signal.

 

[jlindblo]

Ahhh .... Interesting. I will monitor that expecting to make the computer switch this next week.

BI does not interact with the camera that way to impact FPS and KEY. It simply takes what is given to it. The cheaper cameras play with the iframe rate to give a nice static image, but then you get the problems like you see where it misses motion. A KEY of .20 means that BI could take up to 5 seconds to recognize the motion, and in many field of views, 5 seconds is enough time for an object to be in and out of the picture. BI recommends a KEY of 1.00, but no less than 0.50.

The most famous cameras that do this switching of FPS and iframes is Reolink.

Blue Iris and Reolinks (and many cheap cameras) do not work well together, but the same principles applies for almost any low end consumer grade camera. It is just Reolinks is one of the more consumer end cameras people buy and come to this site as to why it is pointed out often about. I have a cheapo camera for overview purposes so it doesn't matter, but it exhibits this same behavior even though in the settings I can set an iframe...

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.

Regarding the next camera, it is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

Ok .... I am studying and watching YouTube Videos on cameras and I am wondering if a varifocal like this would work? HDW2831T-ZS-S2 2.7~13.5mm 5X Motorized Varifocal Lens The center of playground activity will be 66' from the camera and the end of the playground where a covered patio starts is 102'. So the camera needs coverage to 100' plus into the patio area at tmes. The patio is 36' wide and 100' long and the camera is pointed directly centerline to the patio. From the centerline going 50' to one end are 3 storage sheds with doors butted up to the edge. There will be at times small groups of individuals meeting in a seating area nearer the camera, times when the patio will have picnic gatherings and times when the playground is covered with children ... my reasoning for the varifocal. The entire area and adjacent parking is well lit with hi-intensity leds so my thinking was that I would not need "Low Light Cameras". However ... I do like the thought of minimal spider webs! I am also looking closer at the 5442 Z4E. A couple of pictures showing the camera that will be replaced and a couple showing the 100' long playground area.

 

[wittaj]

So a varifocal is a set it and forget it type of camera. If you want to zoom in and out, that would be PTZ.

Best would be two cameras to cover the distances you are looking for.

With that said, if you know everyone that would be on these facilities, then you are more into RECOGNIZE and not IDENTIFY and you can get by with a more wider view camera.

Meaning that you would be able to RECOGNIZE people you know based on their weight, hair, walk, gait, clothing style, etc, but you would not be able to IDENTIFY and provide clean pictures of a stranger.

For example, I can recognize on my 2.8mm wide angle camera my neighbors at 200 feet out based on shape, walk, hair, etc. But a complete stranger, no way possible at that distance with a 2.8mm lens.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Sorry it is the "no signal errors". My system runs for months without signal errors.
Check your network equipment, and cabling, check the connectors for corrosion.

Looking at one of your pictures, your connector setup and protection is extremely poor. Redo all your connectors with correct waterproofing.

 

[jlindblo]

Ohh ... that's right. Good point. On a varifocal the point-of-view "target" would always be at the same spot unless you get on a ladder and turn the camera left or right but you can change the pre-sets from 2.8 - 12mm it seems. That kinds seems like zoom to me but I suppose presets might be a limited number of stops? On BI would those pre-sets for a varifocal be on the PTZ toolbar at the bottom, or on the manufacture's software? Maybe I'm making this all too complicated and should just pick a fixed focal length of 4.0mm which would be 132' at a distance of 100'. Like this bullet OEM Hikvision version.
6MP PoE Security IP Camera - Compatible with Hikvision Performance Series DS-2CD2T65G1-I5 Bullet EXIR Night Vision 4mm Fixed Lens
Our outdated and due to be replaced camera is a varifocal bullet type which was initially set (by me a long time ago) but it's problem is that it doesn't do well with BI and missing recordings. It is also not on the market anymore. Your point about identifying people you know is well taken but as I get less involved with age then it becomes more of a problem. Identifying the playground individuals would be the biggest priority. As for "lost signals" I checked my own 9 camera system after I reset last night and I show 2-4 notices since then. I'll have to think about why later.

 

[jlindblo]

Sorry it is the "no signal errors". My system runs for months without signal errors.
Check your network equipment, and cabling, check the connectors for corrosion.

Looking at one of your pictures, your connector setup and protection is extremely poor. Redo all your connectors with correct waterproofing.

Thank you SouthernYankee for pointing that out and you are right. My outside weatherproofing cables do need attention and it will be something I will work on.

 

[sebastiantombs]

A varifocal has no specific focal lengths from minimum to maximum zoom. That lets you set it exactly for the field of view required.

 

[wittaj]

Ohh ... that's right. Good point. On a varifocal the point-of-view "target" would always be at the same spot unless you get on a ladder and turn the camera left or right but you can change the pre-sets from 2.8 - 12mm it seems. That kinds seems like zoom to me but I suppose presets might be a limited number of stops? On BI would those pre-sets for a varifocal be on the PTZ toolbar at the bottom, or on the manufacture's software? Maybe I'm making this all too complicated and should just pick a fixed focal length of 4.0mm which would be 132' at a distance of 100'. Like this bullet OEM Hikvision version.
6MP PoE Security IP Camera - Compatible with Hikvision Performance Series DS-2CD2T65G1-I5 Bullet EXIR Night Vision 4mm Fixed Lens
Our outdated and due to be replaced camera is a varifocal bullet type which was initially set (by me a long time ago) but it's problem is that it doesn't do well with BI and missing recordings. It is also not on the market anymore. Your point about identifying people you know is well taken but as I get less involved with age then it becomes more of a problem. Identifying the playground individuals would be the biggest priority. As for "lost signals" I checked my own 9 camera system after I reset last night and I show 2-4 notices since then. I'll have to think about why later.

Varifocals do not have presets, so that section doesn't work in BI for presets. It would be a PTZ that would have presets and the ability to zoom in and out and pan at will.

Varifocals are not designed for constant zoom in and out.

 

[looney2ns]

Study this carefully, some of the camera mentioned are out of date now, but the basic's are still solid.
Cliff Notes

You need the proper junction boxes for each camera to proper protect the connections along with this: WaterProofing Connections

If you stick with the Dahua 5442 series of cameras, they will do the job just fine. As long as they are properly chosen, positioned, and installed.

If you think you need more zoom, this camera would also serve you well: Review-Dahua IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E AI Varifocal Bullet | IP Cam Talk

Also study this: Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

Also, study this and all the links that are included.

 

[jlindblo]

Study this carefully, some of the camera mentioned are out of date now, but the basic's are still solid.
Cliff Notes

You need the proper junction boxes for each camera to proper protect the connections along with this: WaterProofing Connections

If you stick with the Dahua 5442 series of cameras, they will do the job just fine. As long as they are properly chosen, positioned, and installed.

If you think you need more zoom, this camera would also serve you well: Review-Dahua IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E AI Varifocal Bullet | IP Cam Talk

Also study this: Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

Also, study this and all the links that are included.

I see that this camera specs states Varifocal ... motorized lens /12 optical Zoom ... Does in this case Optical Zoom mean the same as Varifocal? Or does it mean that if I set the focal length to 5 and should I need more that I can optical zoom up to 12 times? 5mm looks to be the lowest setting?

 

[looney2ns]

I see that this camera specs states Varifocal ... motorized lens /12 optical Zoom ... Does in this case Optical Zoom mean the same as Varifocal? Or does it mean that if I set the focal length to 5 and should I need more that I can optical zoom up to 12 times? 5mm looks to be the lowest setting?

Varifocal vs Fixed Lens Security Cameras

Do I Need a Varifocal Lens Security Camera? Most surveillance camera systems these days are going to use fixed lens cameras, but you may have come across several varifocal lens cameras and are wondering if they might be the right choice for your system. At the most basic level, a varifocal lens...

montavue.com

 

[wittaj]

Varifocal could mean you have to manually be touching the camera and adjusting the focal length and focus manually touching the camera. motorized typically means you can do it from a computer and logging into the camera GUI. Most of the name brand will be motorized. But I have seen cheap ones that you have to manually move.

 

[jlindblo]

Thanks to all the helpful advice I think I've settled on this one. 4 MP Turret 5442 Z4E available from EmpireTech. My main concerns were that it works well with BI (being compliant to standards so Mainstream to Substream works) , and a Lens selection (4 mm) that would cover the center of activity at 66' and 30' minimum out to each side. And of course people identification. It has a bigger F Stop of F1.8 so I suppose that might be for video frames? Then my 2nd choice of the 8 MP Bullet Dahua OEM 5831-ZE which appears to have a larger sensor .... larger cost .... larger images? Not sure if #2 has any advantage over #1 though.

 

[jlindblo]

BI does not interact with the camera that way to impact FPS and KEY. It simply takes what is given to it. The cheaper cameras play with the iframe rate to give a nice static image, but then you get the problems like you see where it misses motion. A KEY of .20 means that BI could take up to 5 seconds to recognize the motion, and in many field of views, 5 seconds is enough time for an object to be in and out of the picture. BI recommends a KEY of 1.00, but no less than 0.50.

The most famous cameras that do this switching of FPS and iframes is Reolink.

Blue Iris and Reolinks (and many cheap cameras) do not work well together, but the same principles applies for almost any low end consumer grade camera. It is just Reolinks is one of the more consumer end cameras people buy and come to this site as to why it is pointed out often about. I have a cheapo camera for overview purposes so it doesn't matter, but it exhibits this same behavior even though in the settings I can set an iframe...

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.

Regarding the next camera, it is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

On your 3rd recommendation, the 5442 Z4E I could not find a single YouTube video demonstrating that particular model and even when I go to Dahua's website I could find no meaning for the prefix letters or any of the letters after. This is what I think this model is may be, but is it? I see T5442T-ZE but if I order this Dahua from EmpireTech ...am I getting what I think I am? I know you said series but it would be so easy to order and then have to return. I am guessing the "T" stands for turret and also I see that the number "4" is missing. Not a clue what ZE means. When I search for a video to demonstrate I see a YouTube video by Intermit.tech but with the added letters of "TM AS LED". More letters I that I can't find a meaning for. And some have HDW at the front. Could you shed some light so that when I order I will get the correct camera?

 

[sebastiantombs]

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...

ipcamtalk.com