Recommended bigger POE switches? 16-24 ports or so?

[Razer]

Just wondering what everyone is using on bigger installs, most threads are on the smaller 4-8 port switches and I was wondering what people had good success with on the larger end of the spectrum without breaking the bank.

My default switch currently is a Zyxel 16 port switch, the ES1100-16P with 8 poe and 8 standard ports. I have need of all 8 poe ports and usually use 4-6 of the standard ports for the some of the other equipment I use in the install area. These switches are working pretty well, the only failures have been lightning related and then usually it is only a port or three that die and not the entire switch which is nice. On some locations now I have need of more ports, and while I can just use two or three of the Zyxel switches I'd prefer a more elegant solution.

I'm also using fiber to connect longer distances to secondary switch points too, so SFP ports could be nice to be directly integrated and not use an adapter. I have great switches I know would work perfectly just not at a price that makes me happy for camera use! Wondering where the reliable bargains are for 16-24 port switches with or without SFP in them and figured we could share the info if anyone has insight. No management needed in my case, though most will be I suspect.

 

[nayr]

http://www.amazon.com/EdgeSwitch-Port-Managed-Gigabit-Switch/dp/B00LV8Z2V2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1414782976&sr=8-2&keywords=ES-24-500W

 

[nayr]

Also look on ebay for used carrier grade switches if you dont need PoE+, tons of shops are now being forced to buy new PoE switches because modern IP Phones and 802.11AC WiFi access points require PoE+... so you can pickup some really nice Cisco/etc switches used that come loaded with features and still have a very long service life left on them... be aware tho these switches tend to be very power hungry and not exactly silent.


For IP Cameras you dont really need Gigabit ports except on the uplink (10Mbit per camera x 24 Cameras = 240Mbit) and you can find lots of cheap carrier switches with these specs
example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-WS-C3550-24PWR-SMI-24-Port-PoE-Switch-3550-24-1-Year-Warranty-/231367008224
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-Catalyst-Express-500-Series-WS-CE500-24PC-V02-24-Port-PoE-Managed-Switch-/151459130641?pt=US_Network_Switches&hash=item2343aaed11

 

[networkcameracritic]

I got the Netgear JGS524PE ProSafe Plus desktop switch, 12 PoE ports, 12 regular ports. All ports are gigabit, it's quiet, doesn't use a power brick and managed (can power cameras off/on remotely for example) and it's cheap, like $250-270ish.

 

[cigar7]

How is this switch working for you? Any issues?

 

[bp2008]

The first and only large managed switch I've ever bought is a NETGEAR ProSAFE FS728TP, which has been running in my garage for the last 18 months, feeding I think 19 cameras. The switch is 24 port PoE 10/100, plus 4 gigabit ports and 2 gigabit fiber ports. It is large and has fans which is to be expected for a switch that pushes more than 100 watts of power through it.

It does its job well enough, I suppose. It is reliable anyway. The web interface is my biggest gripe. The interface is complex, which would not be a problem but the web server they put on that switch is an embarrassment to Netgear and completely inadequate for a modern switch. To fully load the login page, your browser must load a total of 256 KB of data across 41 distinct requests. The web server can only handle one request at a time and transfers at roughly 10 KB/s. So loading the login page takes 20 seconds, whereas a competent web server would be able to handle all of this in under one second, even over the internet. But this is on the LAN. Gigabit LAN. There is just no excuse for this poor performance. Fortunately the switching performance is fine. It is just the web server that is slow.

Every few months one or two of my 5MP chinese cameras will stop responding and the switch shows dropped/corrupted packets on the ports those cameras are on. I don't know whether I should blame the switch or the cameras or what but rebooting the switch (and thereby power cycling all connected cameras) is the easiest solution, and it works.

 

[Razer]

I have started using some Buffalo switches, a 16 port all gigabit model with 12 POE and 120w budget for around $200. The second switch is right around $300 but all 16 ports are gigabit and POE with a power budget of 180w and it is managed (I've not yet ever even logged in, they have been plug and play). This one also as two ports shared with SFP slots so I can link my longer runs with fiber.

So far so good, I have installed 8-10 of these and am waiting to see if I get any issues popping up but they are alright so far.

We've sworn off Netgear and Cisco so we will see how these guys work out.

 

[harrijs]

Any specific reason that you swore off Cisco? My day to day is network security and physical security just happens to fall on my plate. Cisco is by far the easiest configuration when it comes to network design of any other device out there. It is specialized, but if you have to touch multiple devices in a single day I wouldn't have anything with a UI other than a CLI with a well documented command set.

 

[Razer]

Any specific reason that you swore off Cisco? My day to day is network security and physical security just happens to fall on my plate. Cisco is by far the easiest configuration when it comes to network design of any other device out there. It is specialized, but if you have to touch multiple devices in a single day I wouldn't have anything with a UI other than a CLI with a well documented command set.

Sure, the reason we switched is that the Cisco switches were horribly unreliable for IP cameras. I was using the Cisco Small Business 300 series switches and the failure rate was through the roof. I was sending 2-3 a month back for replacement. It was so bad that I quit even bothering to send them for repair, I just checked the cabinet behind me and I have 9 sitting there that I've not bothered to get swapped out as we'll never use them again and I have 7-8 in on a shelf that are fresh from being swapped but we'll not use them now.

Failures were ports failing and switches blowing up (total power loss) quite often. All the power bricks for these switches make noise, even the fresh ones they send back after swapping out. High pitched squeal I can hear in a quiet conference room from 30 feet. Older people think I'm crazy, but I can sure hear it lol. Some also buzz and kind of crackle inside when powered up. Not good in my opinion.

The other common and odd issue was this for example: I would have an 8 port switch with 6 of the exact same camera on there and one or sometimes two would quit working for no reason. Remotely power cycle the switch and they would again work. They would continue to work for a couple of days, maybe a week before going back out. I could move the cameras around on ports and the same cameras would fail on other ports. Again, these are 6 of the exact same cameras, even the same settings other than IP and motion fields. I could then remove the Cisco and put in something else, Buffalo, Zyxel or whatever and all cameras work perfectly and the problem goes away. These cameras were only pulling like 4 watts each too.

I had places that went through 5 Cisco switches in 6 months, with power problems and port issues. Put in anything else and it's all good again. I gave up, and we have up as a company too. For the price that performance is awful though I know that experience does not carry through all their products of course. In the end others will do waht we need and want cheaper and more reliably. That will not be true for everyone of course!

 

[networkcameracritic]

I had the same experience with Cisco's desktop gigabit PoE switches, replaced mine with a ZyXel at the time. To me they seem the sturdiest. Have one in the heat of my attic for a while now with no problems, it's a few years old.

 

[harrijs]

I don't have any experience with the SMB switches, which were probably just rebadged linksys gear to begin with. I was thinking more along the lines of the 2960, 3560, or 3750 series of switches. Each of these come in variable POE configurations with some of the 3560 and 3750 models offering the ability for redundant power supplies. These are also going to be offered in 24 port and 48 port variations, but I would only purchase the 48 port when looking at the price difference.

I realize that these switches are going to be out of the realm of reality for most home users, but $600 to $1000 for a solid platform to a business user is just a cost of doing business reliably. The feature sets you are purchasing with Cisco gear might not ever be used and in that case I would continue to use the low end consumer models you listed above.

I was just a little surprised by the negative Cisco comments because I currently operate an environment with over 400 deployed switches and 200 routers and we wouldn't use anything but Cisco at this point.

 

[networkcameracritic]

I took used their high-end 10GigE switches for work purposes, but like you said, they can be expensive and we paid thousands per switch. To most of us here, paying $500ish for an 8 port PoE switch that you think is a premium switch and having it fail so much tarnishes the Cisco name regardless of who made it. To me, my two go to brands are ZyXel and Netgear. They work, they are reasonably affordable but clearly not the cheapest switch you can buy. For example, I have a 24 port gigabit PoE Netgear switch, 12 ports PoE, semi-smart, meaning I can log into the switch and control stuff like turn PoE off/on to recycle a camera, but not as comprehensive as a fully managed switch which most don't need, can be desktop or rack mounted, under $300. ZyXel's are a little more, made a little better, and more responsive support.

 

[Razer]

In my environment I have right around 90 routers, and somewhere about 150+ switches so I do use quite a few but so far the basic brands are working fine. We moved to try and Adtran switch stack and that switch was not the best, was very disappointing. Overall we have had great luck with higher end Dell and Zyxel switches. The 48 port POE Zyxels have been rock solid and good performers for us as have the Dell. The Dells had a couple of issues with the web interface being non responsive and console working fine but we can go a year or two without power cycling or anything which is good enough for us.

We run a full VOIP phone system/call center that is pretty nice, and have over 1,000 cameras now and so far so good. I get to play with a little bit of everything which is fun and keeps me on my toes! Tomorrow I'm building a couple higher end desktops for AutoCAD use but would also make great gaming machines. Might have to test them thoroughly in my office before giving them to the new owners....

 

[harrijs]

There is no way I could be efficient managing switches using a web interface. If it doesn't have a well documented CLI it wouldn't make sense for me. Something else to look at with the Cisco stuff is to move to the Catalyst line of switches and away from the SMB. I don't know how much money you are currently paying for the Zyxel switches, but I think you could get a C3750-24-PS used with a warranty for around $160.

 

[bp2008]

There is no way I could be efficient managing switches using a web interface. If it doesn't have a well documented CLI it wouldn't make sense for me. Something else to look at with the Cisco stuff is to move to the Catalyst line of switches and away from the SMB. I don't know how much money you are currently paying for the Zyxel switches, but I think you could get a C3750-24-PS used with a warranty for around $160.

I can appreciate that. I've seen a few really terrible web interfaces in business-class networking products. A well-designed GUI however will let someone manage the device without needing a manual and without having to memorize a bunch of CLI commands and flags. But I have never seen a networking product that could do everything via its GUI. Even my beloved router with Tomato firmware needs some CLI work once in a while.

 

[networkcameracritic]

C3750-24-PS us 100Mb/s switch with SFP uplinks, so assuming most of us don't a fiber backbone at home, 100Mbps is going to be a disaster with over 6-8 cameras, let alone 24, hence the reason they are cheap, frankly overpriced at $160. My switches are gigabit, so yes they cost more and they are new, so yes that costs more. If you said a C3750G-24PS for $160, I'm in. Also consider that equipment meant for racks in data centers tend to be noisy in home or office environments.

 

[harrijs]

The C3750-34-PS does have SFP uplinks that you can put a GLC-T copper gigabit module in for another $40. You don't need gig on your client access ports for cameras. While this is meant for racks, these switches are not going to be noisy.