Radar or Thermal Cameras?

[sirfa]

Hi guys,
I need a better perimeter protection around a building for approximately 1700 square metres.
I was looking at DS-PR1-60 microwave radar but I don't have experience with this type of things. I have seen that I can link the radar with my PTZ cameras but how much can they be far from the radar? Also, will the radar reach zone covered by the building?
I am interested in no false alarms at all.
The other option is DS-2TD1228-3/QA around the building with VCA enabled, anyone have tried this?
Thanks and sorry for my unusual questions.

 

[wittaj]

You can link any type of camera to be used as a spotter camera for a PTZ within many VMS options. The distance between the two cameras are irrelevant.

Some have had success with thermal while others have not. Suggestion would be to purchase one camera and try it in your location and see if it produces the results you want.

 

[bradner]

Having an entry level Dahua thermal camera I'd say try radar unless you were going for a high end thermal camera. The resolution on the entry level thermals is quite low so there's just not enough pixels there I find to trigger small movements or ones a bit further out. If I lower the trigger sensitivity I get many false triggers. Closer up, no issues but more than 30ft out, it get dicey. Just my $0.02. I like the thermal for my use though.

 

[sirfa]

Thanks for reply both of you.
I have experience with thermal cameras but I don't know nothing about this new /QA generation that should be an update of /PA. They are very good but you must calibrate and set up the camera correctly.
Also, I was thinking about this new Microwave Radar. I don't know how they works and never heard about this before but I have seen some video online and they look great. I don't know, anyway, if the this type of radars can spot intruders if they have view covered by a building (I don't think so), maybe the best solution is use a lot of thermal cameras in the angles.

 

[trempa92]

I tried both, Radar is more difficult to calibrate, and you dont really have optical proof under strong fog if you are not using PTZ with defog option.
On the other hand thermal cameras can vary from model to model. Cheap ones will work fine to close range. Afterall check this hikvision tool where u have all the thermal cameras listed and their human detection/recognition distances

https://tools.hikvision.com/#/lensSelection-thermal

 

[sirfa]

I tried both, Radar is more difficult to calibrate, and you dont really have optical proof under strong fog if you are not using PTZ with defog option.
On the other hand thermal cameras can vary from model to model. Cheap ones will work fine to close range. Afterall check this hikvision tool where u have all the thermal cameras listed and their human detection/recognition distances

https://tools.hikvision.com/#/lensSelection-thermal

Thanks. Here where I live I don't have fog fortunately and I think that I can stay within VCA distances but of course I must buy 4-5 thermals.
I already have 3 PTZ which can be linked to a radar but I don't think that radar can spot intruders in open areas covered by the building (I need to cover all around the building) so I think that probably thermal is the best option.

 

[trempa92]

Thanks. Here where I live I don't have fog fortunately and I think that I can stay within VCA distances but of course I must buy 4-5 thermals.
I already have 3 PTZ which can be linked to a radar but I don't think that radar can spot intruders in open areas covered by the building (I need to cover all around the building) so I think that probably thermal is the best option.

Yes if its not an open area, thermal is better solution. Plus thermal can be used in hik alarm aswell.You can create partition called "Perimeter" and link cameras smartevent i.e Intrusion to trigger an alarm.

 

[sirfa]

Yes if its not an open area, thermal is better solution. Plus thermal can be used in hik alarm aswell.You can create partition called "Perimeter" and link cameras smartevent i.e Intrusion to trigger an alarm.

Thanks a lot for your reply.
Can you explain better this Hik Alarm thing?
I can connect a real siren to this hik alarm and it can receive alert from the thermal cameras? Also, is possible to link third party sensors to this hik alarm?

 

[trempa92]

So let me try to explain:

You have thermal camera, thermal camera got smart events(intrusion detection,linecrossing,temperature detection,...)
So lets take Intrusion detection, you draw area,min and max sizes to recognize humans or vehicles only. Then you put notify surveillance center in linkage action.

On alarm central you add those cameras like you would add them on NVR, but you can choose to which alarm partition you would like to add them and put settings if its silent alarm or normal.

So lets say you have an building with alarm and outside perimeter. 1 Partition will be used for indoor sensors,magnets and so on, the Partition 2 will be Perimeter where you added i.e 4 thermal cameras.

So when you Arm alarm system, if intrussion happens itll actthe same as your detector detected somebody, but instead for outdoor detectors you are using cameras instead(it will trigger siren same as any detector(zone) would). Also it will send video verification on hik-connect app where your alarm is.

Now for the 3rd party sensors, yes its possible with upcoming new hybrid alarm central.

AX PRO

Simplicity through innovation. By utilizing dual-chip technology, the AX PRO Hub ensures that data transmission is stable and reliable. And equipped with Hikvision’s IVaaS technology, it supports flexible linkage with IP cameras or PIRCAMs.

www.hikvision.com

Its 96 zone central (16 on board) can be expanded(Or use wireless periferals) Therefor since its wired(hybrid) you can use any sensor u like SEOL/DEOL NO/NC

I am currently testing this new central and feedbacking hikvision for bugs.

Here is a brochure how it looks integrating cameras with wireless alarm central(works with new hybrid one aswell)

https://www.hikvision.com/content/dam/hikvision/eu/support/brochures/product-flyer/AX-PRO-X-AcuSense-flyer-EU-Jul.-2021.pdf

Cheers

 

[sirfa]

So let me try to explain:

You have thermal camera, thermal camera got smart events(intrusion detection,linecrossing,temperature detection,...)
So lets take Intrusion detection, you draw area,min and max sizes to recognize humans or vehicles only. Then you put notify surveillance center in linkage action.

On alarm central you add those cameras like you would add them on NVR, but you can choose to which alarm partition you would like to add them and put settings if its silent alarm or normal.

So lets say you have an building with alarm and outside perimeter. 1 Partition will be used for indoor sensors,magnets and so on, the Partition 2 will be Perimeter where you added i.e 4 thermal cameras.

So when you Arm alarm system, if intrussion happens itll actthe same as your detector detected somebody, but instead for outdoor detectors you are using cameras instead(it will trigger siren same as any detector(zone) would). Also it will send video verification on hik-connect app where your alarm is.

Now for the 3rd party sensors, yes its possible with upcoming new hybrid alarm central.

AX PRO

Simplicity through innovation. By utilizing dual-chip technology, the AX PRO Hub ensures that data transmission is stable and reliable. And equipped with Hikvision’s IVaaS technology, it supports flexible linkage with IP cameras or PIRCAMs.

www.hikvision.com

Its 96 zone central (16 on board) can be expanded(Or use wireless periferals) Therefor since its wired(hybrid) you can use any sensor u like SEOL/DEOL NO/NC

I am currently testing this new central and feedbacking hikvision for bugs.

Here is a brochure how it looks integrating cameras with wireless alarm central(works with new hybrid one aswell)

https://www.hikvision.com/content/dam/hikvision/eu/support/brochures/product-flyer/AX-PRO-X-AcuSense-flyer-EU-Jul.-2021.pdf

Cheers

Thanks a lot for your answer, you are helping me a lot and I really appreciate it.
Sorry if I still bother you with other questions but here where I am live the so called technicians are not so expert so I must do myself.
This Hybrid HikCentral DS-PWA96-M2H-WE seems game changing but my question is: is possible to connect more different zone to this central?
For example: I have 4 different apartment in this building where all my family members live, is possible to create 4 different zone connected to the same central? Of course, I need that when someone disable his alarm in his apartment (with keybind or something) the others have to remain active. Is something possible?
In this way I can have thermal cameras outside and inside I can use (if is possible) this central connected to 4 different appartments (that have of course different sensors, etc.) but I can use just one siren connected to all the apartments alarm.
Also, have you tried Hikvision sensors? Do you think they are good or is better use something else?
Thanks again.

 

[trempa92]

Don't mess zone with partition, Zones are devices(detectors,sensors,magnets,relays,sirens...) on alarm system, Partition is the word you are looking for and answer is yes. You can split to 32 partition and each one can be armed/disarmed by their own keypad, tag reader, keyfob or phone app. And each partition can hold as much zones as long altogether is inside system specification in this case 96 zones is maximum.

Yes both wired and wireless hikvision sensors work really great, only problem i hadwith wireless detectors are batteries, probably they were idle for a long time(not new) so its better to buy good ones and replace them at start and keep the ones u get with devices for backup.

 

[sirfa]

Don't mess zone with partition, Zones are devices(detectors,sensors,magnets,relays,sirens...) on alarm system, Partition is the word you are looking for and answer is yes. You can split to 32 partition and each one can be armed/disarmed by their own keypad, tag reader, keyfob or phone app. And each partition can hold as much zones as long altogether is inside system specification in this case 96 zones is maximum.

Yes both wired and wireless hikvision sensors work really great, only problem i hadwith wireless detectors are batteries, probably they were idle for a long time(not new) so its better to buy good ones and replace them at start and keep the ones u get with devices for backup.

Great. This solves me an huge problem.
And about sensor (for example wireless magnet), do you think nowdays is better wired or wireless one? Are Hikvision sensors good?

 

[trempa92]

If you have wires, its always better to use wired one. No need to change batteries every 2,3 years. But they work the same. Yes hikvision sensors are good

 

[trempa92]

I recently got a gift from hikvision a HeatPro model of thermal camera, its picking up dust till i find a use for it.

DS-2TD2628-3/QA

I will turn it on these days and tell you how it is. Or better, ill put dyndns on it and send u login details in PM so u can play with it. Might even consider to buy them

 

[sirfa]

I recently got a gift from hikvision a HeatPro model of thermal camera, its picking up dust till i find a use for it.

DS-2TD2628-3/QA

I will turn it on these days and tell you how it is. Or better, ill put dyndns on it and send u login details in PM so u can play with it. Might even consider to buy them

Thanks for your help.
I already have one DS-2TD2617-3/PA and I am happy with it, as I understand this DS-2TD2628-3/QA is an update of PA version. I was interested in VCA coverage and also do you think is better the bullet version or turret version? Maybe for wall mounting is better the turret one?
Also, for 4-5 pieces of this /QA version do you know what is a good price that I can ask for here in EU?