Questions on switches

[StratRider]

I'll attach my diagram and thoughts:
The items in green are what I already own and the stuff on the left is my current working setup.
I am slowly buying cameras but do already own the 20watt PTZ too. (never used)
From what I have been reading for days now, it seems that the network on the right would be correct to run "as is" all by itself.
If I want to connect it to the internet, I then make the connection in the red link.
Please correct me if I am mistaken - Learning switches is oddly difficult for me.

Additional Questions:
1. Does an 8 port switch actually need a 9th port to connect to the BI computer?
(I've seen some switches with all identical ports on the back and no other uplink)
2. The PTZ calls for POE+ but am I correct in thinking I could use its power jack if I don't get a POE+ switch?
3. A local guy has used Cisco 3560 PoE 24 port switches super cheap ($35) - would that be a good choice?
4. If you have a bunch of 4 or 8 port POE switches, can they all just be "daisy chained" together to get whatever you need as you expand?
Thanks for any input here - I really am trying.

 

[mikeynags]

If you have 8 cameras and you need to put the BI PC on the same VLAN, yes you will need a port for that as well. If you have 7 cameras, then the 8th port would be for the BI PC and then the answer would be no. I'm going based off of your drawing.

 

[mikeynags]

Also there was a good post earlier today regarding dual Nics for the BI PC. This would solve your "red line" connection to the Internet. Take a look here for more info:

Dual NIC setup on your Blue Iris Machine

 

[StratRider]

my original plan was for 8 cameras and then I got the PTZ which might eliminate a few but now I am considering adding some inside the house - so I am trying to get my thoughts correct on expansion possibilities. Thanks for that other thread too.

 

[Type2]

I am currently using three TP-LINK TL-SG108PE 8-Port Gigabit Easy Smart Switch with 4-Port PoE in my house network. Attached are pics of my setup. I also utilize a UniFi system and Key for easy monitoring.

To answer your question(s):
1. The 8 port switch does not need a 9th port. You basically use one of the 8 ports for jumping to the next switch (assuming you need to daisy chain switches).
2. If the PTZ requires POE+ you will need a POE+ power jack. I am not an expert by any stretch, and since I am looking into a Dahua SD59225U-HNI PTZ --- I will need to pick up a POE injector (see THIS one) to handle the additional power that my current POE switch cannot provide.
3. No idea on the Cisco 3560
4. Yes - they can be daisy chained

Pics below:
1. Unify hub and 8 port switch
2. Three TP Link 8 port switches daisy chained
3. 1st TP Link switch connecting to UniFi Key, Blue Iris and UniFi switch
4. Pic of whole setup. This is NOT pretty. Still working on basement. Just routed wires and not worried about how everything looks right now. The Blue Iris PC is under the cable modem. Main office server is on the bottom.

 

[TL1096r]

Why do you need a POE Injector for the dahua SD59225U-HNI PTZ. It seems like the TPLINK has enough power?

 

[Type2]

Honestly not sure if there is a difference between POE and POE+. Still doing research and still not an expert.

 

[biggen]

Honestly not sure if there is a difference between POE and POE+. Still doing research and still not an expert.

POE+ is a different standard. Those devices require a higher level of wattage than standard POE devices. Not all switches will support it.

 

[samplenhold]

@TL1096r post on dual NIC is a great place to see how to set that up. This would eliminate tying your POE switch to your router and that would isolate your cameras from the internet, stopping them from phoning home.

Realize that on a switch, all ports are two way communications. There is no 'uplink only' port on a modern switch. So one port goes to your BI computer, the rest can go to your cameras.

You may want to consider more than one POE switch. Divide up the cameras such that half are on one and half on the other. Watch the total POE load for the switch as well as the individual POE load per port. Some folks use more than one POE switch in case of one breaking, they can swap over an at least have some cameras recording. If you use more than two POE switches, no need to daisy chain all of them. Plug #2 and #3 into #1.

Each of us have our favorite components. I have had good luck with Netgear POE switches (and non-POE switches also). As long as you get a quality POE switch from one of the major manufacturers, you should be OK. Uusally it is the power supply that buys it, not the switch it's self. Some switches have a fan and can be noisy. Realize that in your decisions.

 

[StratRider]

It is my understanding now that your standard POE will run up to 15 watt devices per port and anything needing more watts needs POE+ which can run 30-45 watt devices per port.
Since only the PTZ needs 20 watts and most other devices only need 8.5 max., I could use a regular POE switch and install a single inline injector for the PTZ ($7).
If I later choose to go beyond 7 or 8 cameras, then I could daisy chain as many 4 - 8 port switches as needed.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that and thanks to all that added info here.

 

[ijdod]

1. The switch needs a port for every device connected directly to it. Based on your drawing, I see 10 ports: 8 camera's, the router (the red link), and the BI PC. As mentioned above, the red link to the router could also be connected to a second NIC on the BI PC.
2. If your switchport doesn't support PoE (or the wrong PoE), you can power the device through a power injector, or, if your device supports it, the device directly with the appropriate adapter for the device.
3. Fine device in itself, but I suspect power-hungry and loud. Depending on the exact model, may only do 10/100, which would be fine for the cameras but for the uplink to the rest of the network and the BI PC I'd prefer gigabit.
4. Yes. Keep in mind that in principle you cannot loop any of the switches. Doing so will take down the network. More advanced switches typically support features to allow you to that for redundancy, but those features may or may not work out of the box, so assume the worst here.

It is my understanding now that your standard POE will run up to 15 watt devices per port and anything needing more watts needs POE+ which can run 30-45 watt devices per port.

PoE (802.3af) up to 15W
PoE+ (803.2at) up to 30W (realistically 25W available to end devices)
There are additional PoE versions, standardised or proprietary, pushing the power beyond this:
UPoE (Cisco Propietary) up to 60W
802.3bt type 3 up to 60W
802.3bt type 4 up to 100W

 

[StratRider]

I was checking out some threads on server type switches and the power consumption and noise started to turn me against those.
The information provided here on adding switches as needed kind of sealed that deal too.
Using a 2nd NIC makes the most sense now also if I decide that I want to connect to the internet.
I did watch a video on doing a loop and although I have no need for that - it appeared that with the right "smart or managed" switches that it can be done and might even be a good idea in case you lose one but that is likely a commercial application.

 

[StratRider]

I am also finding that many of the switches advertised also only have POE on half of the ports.
Have to be careful and seems to be deceptive advertising to me .

 

[ijdod]

That's usually a design choice. With PoE typically comes a substatial increase in required power; so it can be a design consideration to allow for passive cooling and/or keep costs down. A small 8-port switch uses 5W or so by itself, so adding even 15W per port adds up quickly.

 

[StratRider]

Going back to my original post and possible layout (which will likely only have 7 cameras) - if I remember right someone had said that a switch running 10/100 to all of the cameras was fine if the uplink was 1 gigabit.
Since I have seen a few routers with a single 1 gigabit uplink and 8 ports at 10/100 that prompted another question.
If I connect the system to the internet, would I be better connecting the gigabit port to the router (red link) or to the BI computer and then using a 10/100 port to the other?