Question: Trying to connect multiple Cams, through one ethernet, to multiple NVR ports... is it possible???

[gjjb]

Hi folks... first post and a bit of a newbie to the NVR / Webcam world.

I picked up a POE NVR (HikVision DS-7608NI-K1/8P, but I don't think that matters).
Also picked up three IP POE Cams (HikVision DS-2DE2A4041W-DE3/W, but I don't think that matters either).

See attached images (current state, and some TBD state that is the crux of my question).

Currently, my 3 POE cams are all connected directly to the NVR, and that works fine.

• Two POE CAMs are inside the house.
• The third POE CAM is in an external structure fed underground by ethernet POE directly to CAM.

There's also another ethernet cable that runs underground which feeds an access point so that I can get wifi out there - I don't really want to touch this one.

I want to add more of the same POE cams to the OUTSIDE structure if possible.
Therein lies the problem.

QUESTION: Is there a way that I can use a number of free ports from my NVR, feed them into switch/hub/whatever (???), use the ONE Ethernet cable that goes to the external structure, feed into another switch/hub/whatever to split and feed the various POE Cams out there? In other words, trick the NVR into seeing a different cam on each port, even though they are all run through the one ethernet cable I do have. The "TBD ???? STATE" image shows what I mean.

I don't mind buying the right HW. Or it may be a matter of configuring, which I'm also new to, but have enough working knowledge to 'get it quickly' once I learn.

Other possibly useful info (or not):
Omada Controller: OC200
Router: TP LINK Omada ER605
Switch: TP Link Omada SG2210P POE+ Switch
APs: (3) TP Link Omada EAP615 (these each have 3 ethernet ports under them, one of which offers POE, however, when I connected one of the CAMS to it, It didn't do anything).

 

[wittaj]

Nope. The NVR is programmed such that only one camera can be seen per port. Although sometimes certain models may allow two, but we shouldn't count on it.

The best approach is to connect those cameras to a POE switch and then you connect the switch to the NVR via the WAN/LAN port.

So you will have unused POE ports on the NVR.

Also keep in mind that you cannot exceed the total number of cameras the NVR is rated for, which in this case is 8 cameras. So you can't plug 2 into the NVR and add 8 more to an external switch.

 

[gjjb]

@wittaj
This is good to know, and thanks for the quick reply.

On my NVR, each camera can be configured, triggers, presets, etc... If I use a POE switch into the NVR port, and use it just for the cameras, will the NVR still be able to manage each of those cameras individually (as if they were each in their own NVR port), or how would the NVR know which camera is which?

Any other downsides / limitations in using the Switch as the feed into the NVR (other than the count limit you mentioned)? (e.g. Do I lose controls or configurability?)

Also, is it possible to use a hybrid approach... 2 NVR ports might each have their own camera, and a 3rd port to the POE Switch wan/lan which feeds say 4 other cameras? (under the 8 total as you mentioned).

 

[wittaj]

Regardless of whether the cameras are hooked up to the NVR or an external POE, you want to make all changes to the camera in the camera GUI, not the NVR. So there is a way for you to access the camera GUI thru the NVR (not sure where it is on your NVR but a search here will find it).

The only thing you setup in the NVR is the recording and the alerts - everything else is done within the camera GUI.

Sometimes the NVR will find the cameras on the external switch, but more times than not you will have to manually input them into the NVR. At that point it will be assigned a channel.

The nice thing about the cameras connected to the NVR POE ports is that the NVR acts as a router/firewall of sorts and puts the cameras on a different IP subnet than your LAN, so they are unable to call home or be hacked. When you use an external switch, you then need to take steps to make sure the cameras do not have internet access.

Yes you can do the hybrid approach as long as you don't exceed the number of channels.

 

[Starglow]

@wittaj
This is good to know, and thanks for the quick reply.

On my NVR, each camera can be configured, triggers, presets, etc... If I use a POE switch into the NVR port, and use it just for the cameras, will the NVR still be able to manage each of those cameras individually (as if they were each in their own NVR port), or how would the NVR know which camera is which?
Yes....the cameras can be anywhere in your network as long as their IP addresses and subnet mask are in the same range as the NVR so the NVR can "see" them. The NVR knows what cameras they are and each has or should have a unique IP address.

Any other downsides / limitations in using the Switch as the feed into the NVR (other than the count limit you mentioned)? (e.g. Do I lose controls or configurability?)
No....configuration and control will not be affected.

Also, is it possible to use a hybrid approach... 2 NVR ports might each have their own camera, and a 3rd port to the POE Switch wan/lan which feeds say 4 other cameras? (under the 8 total as you mentioned).
NVR ports cannot function as LAN hub ports and are for camera connections only. The designated LAN port on your NVR is the only connection you can use as an interface to your network. However, if you use a dedicated PoE injector for a single camera then the LAN cable from the PoE injector can connect to an NVR port as one camera. For example, some NVR's can't support PoE power on all of the camera ports, so a PoE injector can supply the power but still use a non PoE camera port on the NVR. If you are using a multi-port LAN hub to supply PoE power to multiple cameras, then those will be network based cameras since the LAN hub can't directly connect to an NVR camera port.

If you ran your underground cable in conduit with a big enough pipe you could have just pulled some more LAN cables if needed. I always leave a pull string inside the pipe for that very purpose.

 

[gjjb]

Thank you @Starglow and @wittaj ...

Looks like I have some networking education to beef up on for configuring to match the NVR IP and subnets.

I'll need to find out how to access the camera GUI via the NVR... I've mainly simply plugged the camera's cable directly into my computer (with a POE injector) which is tedious - but not often needed. I can make changes to the camera via the NVR GUI (presets, etc), but I'm not sure if that's the same thing (different GUI).

Ultimately, I'd prefer to access all GUIs via my phone remotely. The NVR GUI is purely via the plugged in Monitor and Keyboard/Mouse, so my access is limited to 'at site' (unfortunately, that I know of).

See the attached diagram... I think I misunderstood @wittaj 's comment on using a POE Switch based on @Starglow 's comment on LAN HUB PORTS not for any network connections.
Or was it that the POE Switch goes into the WAN port of the NVR as below?

CAM1 > POE Switch LANx
CAM2 > POE Switch LANy
CAM3 > POE Switch LANz

then... that POE Switch WAN goes to the NVR WAN Port? In which case I still need to connect that POE Switch to my home network somehow - Is that done via the POE Switch LAN then (like an access point)? Or did I get the Switch LAN/WAN backwards in that statement?

Note - I don't have room to pull more though that flexible conduit... I do have a pull cord as you mentioned for that reason, but the last cable pulled was tough enough with lube and everything. If I could manage to pull 'one' through somehow, it's more than a "one" device/cable problem.

 

[Starglow]

Your drawing would work, but I'd connect the NVR to the LAN hub inside the house instead of the outbuilding which would free up one of your cable runs - the purple dotted line. In that case you would need the red line cable in your outbuilding drawing going to the PoE switch with the three cameras attached.

 

[gjjb]

Your drawing would work, but I'd connect the NVR to the LAN hub inside the house instead of the outbuilding which would free up one of your cable runs - the purple dotted line. In that case you would need the red line cable in your outbuilding drawing going to the PoE switch with the three cameras attached.

I never thought of that - great Idea, and I'll try it.
Is the attached Image what you meant?

I then will need to see if the NVR automatically sees those three remote cameras OR if I need to somehow manually set them up.
In this case, I suspect I need to configure IPs to that of the NVR and subnets?

Thanks again!

 

[Starglow]

I never thought of that - great Idea, and I'll try it.
Is the attached Image what you meant?

I then will need to see if the NVR automatically sees those three remote cameras OR if I need to somehow manually set them up.
In this case, I suspect I need to configure IPs to that of the NVR and subnets?

Thanks again!

Yes.....your updated drawing is what I was saying. If you have DHCP enabled on the router then everything should be visible to the NVR and will self configure. Some people like to set up separate VLAN's and use static IP addresses but that's another topic.

 

[mat200]

I never thought of that - great Idea, and I'll try it.
Is the attached Image what you meant?

I then will need to see if the NVR automatically sees those three remote cameras OR if I need to somehow manually set them up.
In this case, I suspect I need to configure IPs to that of the NVR and subnets?

Thanks again!

yes .. now this looks good .. @gjjb

For remote access, you want to run an VPN server on the router or PC / device behind the router ( you would redirect the port from the router for VPN requests to the PC / VPN device )

 

[Mark_M]

QUESTION: Is there a way that I can use a number of free ports from my NVR, feed them into switch/hub/whatever (???), use the ONE Ethernet cable that goes to the external structure, feed into another switch/hub/whatever to split and feed the various POE Cams out there? In other words, trick the NVR into seeing a different cam on each port, even though they are all run through the one ethernet cable I do have. The "TBD ???? STATE" image shows what I mean.

Nope. The NVR is programmed such that only one camera can be seen per port. - ?
Although sometimes certain models may allow two, but we shouldn't count on it.

Sometimes the NVR will find the cameras on the external switch, but more times than not you will have to manually input them into the NVR. At that point it will be assigned a channel.

Connecting multiple cameras to one port on an NVR's switch can work.
I've done it on the NVR's I've owned and had people with Lorex NVRs do it too.

Automatic channel assignment is the biggest 'gotcha' with it. It's often the first camera the NVR sees on that port gets assigned the channel number of that port. Then the other cameras need to be manually added.

 

[mat200]

Connecting multiple cameras to one port on an NVR's switch can work.
I've done it on the NVR's I've owned and had people with Lorex NVRs do it too.

Automatic channel assignment is the biggest 'gotcha' with it. It's often the first camera the NVR sees on that port gets assigned the channel number of that port. Then the other cameras need to be manually added.

Nice @Mark_M , please share what you needed to do, and what tier of NVRs / OEM it worked with. I know a lot of us have had challenges with this.

 

[Parley]

Why not manually add the camera addresses to the ports ahead of time? That way they would they not be "looking" for that particular camera? Say port 1 has a camera address of 192.254.1.2. Would it not only respond to a camera with that address? Then say port 2 would have a camera address of 192.154.1.3 and so on with the rest of the ports. Of course, the cameras would also have to be pre-addressed through their GUI.

 

[Nolesfan]

yes .. now this looks good .. @gjjb

For remote access, you want to run an VPN server on the router or PC / device behind the router ( you would redirect the port from the router for VPN requests to the PC / VPN device )

View attachment 175454

The only thing I would caution you on this approach would be that I have ran into instances in the past where connecting a 100mb device on the outfeed of an AP will sometimes default that entire AP to only 100mb instead of 1GB. I recently completed a similar install to what you are doing, but left the first network cable to the AP, and used the second cable to feed a small POE switch, that provided 4 POE outputs.

This worked great, wasnt too expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B9FH71S6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

[Starglow]

Why not manually add the camera addresses to the ports ahead of time? That way they would they not be "looking" for that particular camera. Say port 1 has a camera address of 192.254.1.2. Would it not only respond to a camera with that address? Then say port 2 would have a camera address of 192.154.1.3 and so on with the rest of the ports. Of course, the cameras would also have to be pre-addressed through their GUI.

Yes....that would work if he's familiar working with static IP's. My thought was to use DHCP at first just to get it running and then those working IP addresses could be made static if desired.

 

[Starglow]

Connecting multiple cameras to one port on an NVR's switch can work.
I've done it on the NVR's I've owned and had people with Lorex NVRs do it too.

Automatic channel assignment is the biggest 'gotcha' with it. It's often the first camera the NVR sees on that port gets assigned the channel number of that port. Then the other cameras need to be manually added.

Just because you can do something like that doesn't mean it's a good idea and could cause NVR port failures down the road since they aren't designed to support multiple cameras on one port.

 

[Mark_M]

Just because you can do something like that doesn't mean it's a good idea and could cause NVR port failures down the road since they aren't designed to support multiple cameras on one port.

It's just a POE switch.. sometimes it has isolation between camera ports. Most modern ones have added isolation between ports.
Past two NVR's I had can have my laptop connected to the built in switch and I can login to the camera directly (Just need to manually set computer IP as NVR doesn't like setting DHCP to foreign devices).

The port's only going to fail if you've got a POE+.at device connected to an NVR's POE.af switch.
Most NVRs are using a switch dedicated chip. The motherboard is configured as two network interface cards, one going to the switch the other NIC is the rear port.

Nice @Mark_M , please share what you needed to do, and what tier of NVRs / OEM it worked with. I know a lot of us have had challenges with this.

DHCP allocation from the NVR is the biggest hurdle to multiple cameras on a port. It seems as if the NVR is waiting for a broadcast discovery packet from a newly connected camera before sending an IP address back.
Manually setting IP addresses within the NVR switches range.
Also setting up the camera before connecting them, then tell the NVR the password of those cameras <-- Particularly when connecting third party cameras.


A good test; connect a computer (manually set IP) and try to reach the NVR switches gateway IP (e.g. 10.1.1.1).
If it works, you'll get to the same web interface as from the main NIC.

 

[steved64]

Here is what worked for me to share multiple cams on single cable
run. The NVR is DS-7608NI-K1/8P like OP has. The cameras are older
Hikvision 2MP types. I connected the cams one at a time to
activate on their own ports/channels from the NVR requiring
no special configuration / manual setting static IPs etc.
After the 3rd was done, connected the first 2 on the same
POE switch through single port on the NVR. They all are
still recognized as separate channels yet communicatin
through single switch port. When I look at the cam's network
config it is not DHCP, the NVR assigned its internal subnet
and left a static address.



Downside is if any of these cams get corrupted and have
to be factory reset, it has to be the only camera on the NVR
port once again to reconfigure.

End result keeps all the cameras behind the NVR and I can
make any changes either through NVR management or its
port forwarding <nvr_ip>:6500<channel#> to the camera
GUI.

 

[Flintstone61]

@wittaj
This is good to know, and thanks for the quick reply.

On my NVR, each camera can be configured, triggers, presets, etc... If I use a POE switch into the NVR port, and use it just for the cameras, will the NVR still be able to manage each of those cameras individually (as if they were each in their own NVR port), or how would the NVR know which camera is which?

Any other downsides / limitations in using the Switch as the feed into the NVR (other than the count limit you mentioned)? (e.g. Do I lose controls or configurability?)

Also, is it possible to use a hybrid approach... 2 NVR ports might each have their own camera, and a 3rd port to the POE Switch wan/lan which feeds say 4 other cameras? (under the 8 total as you mentioned).

Yes. The tech exists to have more cams streaming into Nvr Wan port. Most all NVRs will allow remote cams up the max allowable limited by the # of channels the machine is designed for. The nvr “ sees “ IP addresses of remotely connected devices…usually by using NVR menus to search for them.

 

[Flintstone61]

It would be wise to power up the cameras 1 at a time locally ( near a computer with a browser ) and get them configured with a unique IP address set as “ Static” so that when the NVR returns search results, you recognize your assigned IP addressing.