Processor for 4k cams

[newcomer9087]

Hi, i'm currently running BI with 11 amcrest cameras 2MP and 3 amcrest cameras 4k and my cpu is maxed out reaching 100% very often. already did my best to save cpu cycles without having to lower resolution on the cams. I have direct to disc and Intel hardware acceleration enabled and lowered preview to 8fps
My current PC system specs are Intel i5 9600k + 16gb 2666mhz ram + 10T Purple drive on WIN 10.
Planning on adding 6 more 4k cams. I would like to know your PC specs suggestions for this amount and resolution of cams.
Thinking of building 2 PC to run all cameras or is there a better approach? Maybe upgrade to Intel i9 with 8 cores?

 

[crw030]

1. Are you using non-demo Blue Iris, and do you have direct-to-disk set on all cameras?
2. Are you running Blue Iris v5 ?
3. Have you tried using the new sub-stream feature in Blue Iris v5?

 

[CCTVCam]

One observation your RAM speed is slow. I'd consider a 16GB dual channel kit running 3200mhz with XMP enabled in the BIOS (without XMP (Xtreme Memory Profile) you only get 2300 no matter what you stick in!). I also presume being a newish processor it's DDR4 although check with your MB manufacturer. Not saying it's the answer but with so many cameras a low memory speed especially if single channel could be acting as a bottleneck. On my own non BI pc I discovered quite by accident yesterday that a previous bios update had turned off XMP. Turning it back on has made my pc much snappier even though I'm just surfing using desktop apps. Memory intensive Apps such as my photo editor now open in a couple of seconds instead of ten +. Might not be the answer but worth a look.

 

[IAmATeaf]

Would the speed of RAM even be a bottleneck for BI. When checking my system and looking at resource monitor I’ve never seen any stats to suggest this but I only run 6 2Mp cams.

 

[CCTVCam]

Not sure but it's not going to help having the ram running 2666 at the best and possibly at 2300. We also don't know if it's single or double channel. The ram speed more than capacity certainly will make the system slower. 2300 to 3200 is a 50% increase in access speed. Single to double channel similarly. There could be 100% memory access speed gain to be had dependent on what is fitted and how it's configured. As to whether it bottlenecks it is another matter.

 

[newcomer9087]

1. Are you using non-demo Blue Iris, and do you have direct-to-disk set on all cameras?
2. Are you running Blue Iris v5 ?
3. Have you tried using the new sub-stream feature in Blue Iris v5?

1. Yes it's the full version BI, i have direct to disk on all cameras.
2. Yes BI v5 5.2.9.19 x64
3. I haven't tried the sub stream since i would like to have the cam streaming 4k to my monitor.

 

[newcomer9087]

One observation your RAM speed is slow. I'd consider a 16GB dual channel kit running 3200mhz with XMP enabled in the BIOS (without XMP (Xtreme Memory Profile) you only get 2300 no matter what you stick in!). I also presume being a newish processor it's DDR4 although check with your MB manufacturer. Not saying it's the answer but with so many cameras a low memory speed especially if single channel could be acting as a bottleneck. On my own non BI pc I discovered quite by accident yesterday that a previous bios update had turned off XMP. Turning it back on has made my pc much snappier even though I'm just surfing using desktop apps. Memory intensive Apps such as my photo editor now open in a couple of seconds instead of ten +. Might not be the answer but worth a look.

I have 2 Kingston HyperX Fury Black - 8GB DDR4 DIMM PC4-21300 (2666Mhz), CL16, 1.2V, 288pin for a total of 16gb running at 2400mhz

 

[bp2008]

You have not told us what frame rate your video streams are. It makes a huge difference especially with 4K cameras.

Try to get CPU usage under 50% when you have no remote viewing clients connected. Problems can start well before the CPU usage reaches 100%. I don't like to see it above 80% on a BI system even for a short time.

Sub streams still allow you to take advantage of a 4K monitor. Read the guide and give them a try. They will be essential for you to add more 4K cameras, that is unless you are happy with frame rates of like 5 FPS on all the cams.

 

[bp2008]

Also, definitely turn on XMP in the motherboard settings if it is not already. Although it won't give you a big improvement, it should be some, and memory speed does matter for Blue Iris. Multi-Channel Memory Guide

 

[newcomer9087]

You have not told us what frame rate your video streams are. It makes a huge difference especially with 4K cameras.

Try to get CPU usage under 50% when you have no remote viewing clients connected. Problems can start well before the CPU usage reaches 100%. I don't like to see it above 80% on a BI system even for a short time.

Sub streams still allow you to take advantage of a 4K monitor. Read the guide and give them a try. They will be essential for you to add more 4K cameras, that is unless you are happy with frame rates of like 5 FPS on all the cams.

Right now i have lowered all cams connected including the 4k cams to 20fps (to stabilise my system), but would have liked to be running all cams at 30fps.
I need to know if there is a PC build or hardware mod i can do that can support all cams (11 2mp + 8 4k) at 30fps with BI at 50-60% cpu or do i need to have 2 separate systems (say with i9's and two sticks of 8g 3200mhz) to achieve this?

 

[newcomer9087]

My motherboard Asus Prime Z390-P (Dual Channel Memory Architecture) 4 slots of ddr4 memory. I currently have installed 2 sticks of 8gb 2666mhz with XMP enabled.
Would i have a noticeable improvement filling the other 2 slots with the same ddr4 model memory?

 

[bp2008]

@newcomer9087

11x 2MP @ 30 FPS is 684 MP/s (megapixels per second).

That is fine for your system. What really kills it is the 4K cams.

8x 8.3MP @ 30 FPS is 1991 MP/s

1900 MP/s was the ceiling when I tried stress testing it with Blue Iris on a Ryzen 9 3950X with 3600 MHz CL17 RAM (4x 8 GB DIMMs). It hit that limit while well below 50% CPU utilization. You'd need to step up to a quad channel HEDT platform (Intel or AMD; shouldn't matter much as long as it is latest generation) and even then you would be pushing the limit. I would not recommend this approach.

Your current system could handle your existing cameras plus all the planned cameras and more if you configure sub streams appropriately. That is what I recommend. At least try it and see if you are wiling to live with the compromises. You can still view them individually at full resolution. It is mainly in the group view where the sub stream will be shown.

Again I refer you to the Sub Stream Guide

 

[crw030]

I need to know if there is a PC build or hardware mod i can do that can support all cams (11 2mp + 8 4k) at 30fps with BI at 50-60% cpu or do i need to have 2 separate systems (say with i9's and dual 16g 3200mhz) to achieve this?

@newcomer9087
Sure, see my EPYC overkill build thread, or split the load between two desktop PC's (cheaper than a single-system build). Kind of like having quad-memory on the cheap (because of dual systems).
I can (finally) comfortably run at 3200 MP/s (equiv 20 * ~8MP cameras at 20 FPS) on EPYC.
For comparison, with sub-streams enabled I can record over 7000 MP/s (equivalent to 60 * ~8MP cameras at 15FPS, nearly maxing out a 1GbE port), so sub-streams make a drastic difference.

So, please give sub-streams a shot so you don't burn a bunch of money to "fix" something that can run on your existing i5-9600k PC.

 

[bp2008]

^ Finally Completed - New EPYC build & Limit Test - (Extremely Unnecessary Builds)

 

[newcomer9087]

Thanks, ok I'll be testing the sub stream suggested only have a couple of questions:
1. will it affect motion detecting compared to main stream? (i have some cams set up to motion sensor high definition on areas far away)
2. I have all the cams cycling on a 2 tv 4k monitors. How will the quality be affected?
3. What are the usual bugs going this route?
4. Do i get to record continuously at main stream or full resolution (i have have cloned all cams to continuously record 24/7)?
5. Do i get any advantage on using 4k cams?

 

[bp2008]

1) Yes, it might. Some people have recently been complaining their motion detection is working differently with the sub stream. In particular it is unclear if the "min object size" needs adjusted or not.

2) When Blue Iris cycles to the next camera, it will start on the sub stream and may take a few seconds to switch to the main stream. (faster when you have a lower i-frame interval). How much this affects you will depend on how long you have set for a cycle interval I guess.

3) It does make the video streams a little less stable. As in, you are more likely to have a camera temporarily switch to "no signal". This should improve over time. It has already improved a lot since sub streams were first implemented in May.

4) Yes, sub streams currently do not get recorded at all, only main streams.

5) Yes, recordings all come from the main stream so 4K cameras offer the same advantage as they always did.

 

[newcomer9087]

Thanks, will give it a try!
As stated above, i have cloned all cams for 24/7 recording continuously but have them hidden. Do i need to configure the sub stream hack also on these? or it won't matter for cpu gains?

 

[bp2008]

I don't know. You probably do need the sub stream configuration to be the same between clone and master, otherwise I'm guessing BI won't treat them as clones anymore.

 

[newcomer9087]

OK, now i have lowered my cpu to around 55%, i see some video quality compromise but it's ok.
I'm also dealing with bandwidth issues for streaming, which i have been managing keeping my total bit rate of all cams at bay. Since i enabled a sub stream feed on each cam i have an additional bit rate. Does the main stream bit rate add to the sub stream bit rate for this purposes (streaming lag)? Which bit rate is used for uplink streaming?

 

[crw030]

Does the main stream bit rate add to the sub stream bit rate for this purposes (streaming lag)?

Yes definitely the streams are additive.

I have a similar situation at a remote site which has only 3MB upload bandwidth and I am unable to add the substreams because the extra few kBps pushes me over the upload cap, unless I drop their max rez FPS. After I revisit the remote site and install a Blue Iris system I will just send sub-streams over the site-to-site VPN.