POE Switch location advice/opinions

[SkwatzForFood]

This will be a fresh install at home and I'll be running all the cable myself. Looking for any advice and or opinions on a location for my switch. If it makes a difference its a managed fanless switch. Here are the places I've considered and the pros and cons I've come up with for each:

Office where BI server will be located
The good-Can plug in to UPS I already have in office, close to router, easy physical access if needed, no reason to worry about overheating
The bad-Unless I'm not realizing my other options, I will have to terminate all my CAT6 to separate keystones and use patch cables from keystone to switch. This could be up to 6 separate lines.

Attic
The good-Only have to drop one cable to office, less clutter on desk, shorter runs of CAT6 that connect directly from camera to switch
The bad-Not so quick access to switch, I'll need to purchase a second UPS, and most importantly Heat. I live in south Louisiana so it definitely gets hot up there. My switch is rated up to 120 degrees but the UPS I was looking at is only rated up to 104 degress.

Garage
The good-cooler than the attic, slightly easier access than the attic, easier to drop cable runs
The bad-I'll have to purchase a lockable wall mount enclosure and another UPS, easy access for someone who gets into the garage (even with the enclosure), and the big one that really turns me off is that all the outlets are GFI.

 

[looney2ns]

Garage wins in my book. That's where mine resides.

 

[Fastb]

Garage
The good-cooler than the attic, slightly easier access than the attic, easier to drop cable runs
The bad-I'll have to purchase a lockable wall mount enclosure and another UPS, easy access for someone who gets into the garage (even with the enclosure), and the big one that really turns me off is that all the outlets are GFI.

I also vote for garage.

Let's look at the "bad" aspects.
Lockable wall mount enclosure: This might be avoided by disguising the switch. It's fanless, so noise won't attract the attention of an intruder. You could bury the switch in something of no interest to a thief/intruder. Say, inside an old VHS player enclosure. Or in a wall, with a bogus breaker panel front cover. And some covers can be locked. Depending on cam cable runs, you could bury in the wall, or use conduit (to make it look like AC wiring)
There's lot of decoy storage ideas on the internet, eg:

Another UPS: If the switch is DC powered, you could run a DC line along with the cat 5 cable running back to the BI computer and UPS.
If the switch is AC powered, it's feasible to run AC back to the office UPS, but more of a hassle.
The UPS doesn't need to be co-located with the switch - it could be across the garage somewhere, with a discrete AC line running to the switch.

All outlets are GFI: Not sure why this is a "bad" aspect. Because GFI can trip sometimes, cutting power? Well, some UPS units can notify you when the AC input goes away. There are even after-market alarms that can sound an alarm or text you to inform you the gfi tripped (important for people with sump pumps connected to a GFI)
Where is the GFI outlet? You could convert the single box outlet (containing GFI) to a two gang box. One outlet would be on the "Line" side, before the "Line" reaches the GFI. All downstream outlets on the "Load" side of the GFI outlet would remain protected & unchanged.

In my mind, the switch location is determined by a) ease of wiring to cams, b) ease of access for me, and c) somewhere discrete.

Fastb

 

[SkwatzForFood]

I also vote for garage.

Let's look at the "bad" aspects.
Lockable wall mount enclosure: This might be avoided by disguising the switch. It's fanless, so noise won't attract the attention of an intruder. You could bury the switch in something of no interest to a thief/intruder. Say, inside an old VHS player enclosure. Or in a wall, with a bogus breaker panel front cover. And some covers can be locked. Depending on cam cable runs, you could bury in the wall, or use conduit (to make it look like AC wiring)
There's lot of decoy storage ideas on the internet, eg:

Another UPS: If the switch is DC powered, you could run a DC line along with the cat 5 cable running back to the BI computer and UPS.
If the switch is AC powered, it's feasible to run AC back to the office UPS, but more of a hassle.
The UPS doesn't need to be co-located with the switch - it could be across the garage somewhere, with a discrete AC line running to the switch.

All outlets are GFI: Not sure why this is a "bad" aspect. Because GFI can trip sometimes, cutting power? Well, some UPS units can notify you when the AC input goes away. There are even after-market alarms that can sound an alarm or text you to inform you the gfi tripped (important for people with sump pumps connected to a GFI)
Where is the GFI outlet? You could convert the single box outlet (containing GFI) to a two gang box. One outlet would be on the "Line" side, before the "Line" reaches the GFI. All downstream outlets on the "Load" side of the GFI outlet would remain protected & unchanged.

In my mind, the switch location is determined by a) ease of wiring to cams, b) ease of access for me, and c) somewhere discrete.

Fastb

I consider the GFI outlets bad because if I'm not home (work, vacation, etc) and the outlet trips my cameras are down until I can get back home. Pretty big fault in my mind. All the outlets in the garage are GFI, controlled by one outlet that's in the corner. Definitely not an electrician so I'm pretty useless in a better explanation.

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[Fastb]

Definitely not an electrician

Then the simplest approach may be to replace the GFI with a regular outlet. And install the GFI in the next outlet box that is just downstream of the original GFI.
You'd have to be comfortable with removing/installing an outlet in the junction box.
In the pic below, you'd move the GFI outlet at left to the outlet box in the middle.

 

[SkwatzForFood]

Then the simplest approach may be to replace the GFI with a regular outlet. And install the GFI in the next outlet box that is just downstream of the original GFI.
You'd have to be comfortable with removing/installing an outlet in the junction box.
In the pic below, you'd move the GFI outlet at left to the outlet box in the middle.

Thanks for the graphic, that makes sense.

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[alastairstevenson]

Then the simplest approach may be to replace the GFI with a regular outlet.

Aren't GFI outlets required to reduce the risk of electrocution in a potentially damp environment such as a garage?

That's why I'd consider a garage environment to be hostile to regular low-power domestic-standard electronics that's generally not designed to operate outside.
With the garage being exposed to the outside, it will be naturally subject to condensation when the temperature drops below the dew-point, and even more so when a warm wet car is placed in it to bump up the RH level.

 

[SkwatzForFood]

Aren't GFI outlets required to reduce the risk of electrocution in a potentially damp environment such as a garage?

That's why I'd consider a garage environment to be hostile to regular low-power domestic-standard electronics that's generally not designed to operate outside.
With the garage being exposed to the outside, it will be naturally subject to condensation when the temperature drops below the dew-point, and even more so when a warm wet car is placed in it to bump up the RH level.

That coupled with our ridiculously high humidity has me iffy, unsure if my equipment would survive very long.

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[looney2ns]

Good GFCIs don't typically have a trip problem, unless they malfunction. I have three GFCIs outdoors with "in use" covers, and in 5-6 years they've not tripped. Now a cheap builder's grade version might.

 

[Fastb]

Aren't GFI outlets required to reduce the risk of electrocution in a potentially damp environment such as a garage?

Short answer, yes, current electrical code in the US says a GFI outlet is required for a garage. (and outlets outdoor, in kitchens & bathrooms, etc)

• Garages and accessory buildings: Defined as structures that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use.
• Outdoors: All receptacles, with one exception: receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for electric snow-melting or deicing equipment.
• Unfinished basements: Unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, etc...

Exceptions: Receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system, receptacles that are not readily accessible, receptacles on a dedicated branch circuit and labeled for use with a plug-in equipment (ex: sump pump)

Long answer, part 1:
Electrical code applies for new construction, and some remodeling. Older construction is "grandfathered", meaning homeowrners are not required to constantly upgrade their home to keep up with electrical code changes.
My point: having one non-GFI outlet, out of many garage garage outlets, wouldn't be the end of the world. Many people don't have any GFI outlets in their garage....

Long answer, part 2:
See the text I highlighted in red, above.
There's an exception you might use.
From a pratical standpoint, an electrical inspector isn't going to visit and check your house.

Longer answer, part 3:
Homeowners are given great leeway, much more than licensed electricians. Homeowners can't have their (non-existent) electrican license revoked, or be fined for violating code....

Humidity: Good comments, I didn't consider that. I have two small switches in my garage patch panel. And a stereo, speakers, a TV, freezer, etc. No problems. Been 1 to 2 decades. Living in Seattle, with humidty/rain. But not the stifling humidity of S Louisiana.....

 

[bob2701]

Not sure why everyone is excluding the office?? Wire is cheap! If you are going to connect your cameras directly to the switch in the attic then why not do the same in the office? I like the ability to just look at the leds on the switch and know that all the cameras are working.

 

[truglo]

I like the office myself, especially if you can hide it in a closet. By the time they access your office, you'll hopefully have plenty of good face shots, notifications on your phone, police dialed up... and even if they grab your BI setup they still have to take the SD cards out of the cameras, right?

I live in the CA central valley. There's no way any computer gadgets would survive the 105F+ temps in my garage for long, let alone the 140F+ temps in my attic lol. It also gets soggy damp in my garage during heavier winters (like we had last year). I have seen folks who run mini datacenters in their garages, but they also go all out with a/c and insulation (hardly what I call a 'garage'). If I had that then yeah, but otherwise I avoid even storing sensitive electronics out there.

Regarding the patch panel thing... you could direct wire as bob said, but that will just get messy as your equipment evolves over time. Also, DO NOT USE KEYSTONES AT YOUR HOMERUN lol! Those are meant for wall outlets. Instead, get yourself a punch down patch panel or two:

Search result for patch panel - Monoprice.com

I got 2 of these for my setup, because they fit well in a Leviton flush LV box (and I wired my home back in the day before MP had so much cool stuff):

12-port Vertical Cat6 Mini Patch Panel, 110 Type (568A/B Compatible) - Monoprice.com

A note on DIY house wiring:
I work in the trades and have fixed my fair share of 'well intentioned' yet scary electrical work. I say well intentioned, because nobody intends to electrocute themselves or set their own house on fire right? I'm sure all the folks who did those sketchy jobs were confident they could do it as good as a pro. IMHO, unless you've had some pro experience it's best to hire a pro to add wiring/outlets/circuits to your home. House wiring is deceptively simple to do, but there are many 'tricks' a good tradesman does that make their work 1000x safer than an 'i got this/orange big box/googled it' homeowner job. Going from 1gang to 2gang won't cost much anyways, if that's even an option. Are you sure that box is the line/load node, and nothing else 'upstream'? Also, if GFI is done right it won't trip unless there's a ground fault... your router/switch/pc/etc wouldn't be safe anyways if that was the case. GFI is meant for humid/damp/wet areas, where you're likely to have leakage current; not the place for sensitive electronics to begin with.

Kev

 

[SkwatzForFood]

I like the office myself, especially if you can hide it in a closet. By the time they access your office, you'll hopefully have plenty of good face shots, notifications on your phone, police dialed up... and even if they grab your BI setup they still have to take the SD cards out of the cameras, right?

Regarding the patch panel thing... you could direct wire as bob said, but that will just get messy as your equipment evolves over time. Also, DO NOT USE KEYSTONES AT YOUR HOMERUN lol! Those are meant for wall outlets. Instead, get yourself a punch down patch panel or two... I couldn't be happier with mine:

Search result for cat6a patch panel - Monoprice.com

I live in the CA central valley. There's no way any computer gadgets would survive the 105F+ temps in my garage for long, let alone the 140F+ temps in my attic lol. It also gets soggy damp in my garage during heavier winters (like we had last year). I have seen folks who run mini datacenters in their garages, but they also go all out with a/c and insulation (hardly what I call a 'garage'). If I had that then yeah, but otherwise I avoid even storing sensitive electronics out there.

A note on DIY house wiring:
I work in the trades and have fixed my fair share of 'well intentioned' yet scary electrical work. I say well intentioned, because nobody intends to electrocute themselves or set their own house on fire right? I'm sure all the folks who did those sketchy jobs were confident they could do it as good as a pro. IMHO, unless you've had some pro experience it's best to hire a pro to add wiring/outlets/circuits to your home. House wiring is deceptively simple to do, but there are many 'tricks' a good tradesman does that make their work 1000x safer than an 'i got this/orange big box/googled it' homeowner job. Going from 1gang to 2gang won't cost much anyways, if that's even an option. Are you sure that box is the line/load node, and nothing else 'upstream'? Also, if GFI is done right it won't trip unless there's a ground fault... your router/switch/pc/etc wouldn't be safe anyways if that was the case. GFI is meant for humid/damp/wet areas, where you're likely to have leakage current; not the place for sensitive electronics to begin with.

Kev

The more I think about it the more I'm leaning toward the office as well. Unfortunately no closet though. It will have to be a wife approved install so has to be kept neat and clean, which is why I mentioned keystones. I've looked at the patch panels but being a newbie I'm honestly not sure what I'm supposed to do with. I understand it's function but this looks to me like something to be mounted on a rack or enclosure, which I don't have.

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[truglo]

Yes they make the 19" rack mountable panels, which BTW I bet your wife would dig how pro a rack looks. The others are meant to be mounted typically inside a low voltage box:

Structured Media® Enclosures - Leviton Connected Home

Whether you use a rack or not, an LV panel with some punch down panels is guaranteed to be wife approved as far as wire termination goes... way better looking than a bunch of overpacked keystones swelling out the wall. Have you ever done a 6-keystone outlet? I will never again...

Kev

 

[SkwatzForFood]

Yes they make the 19" rack mountable panels, which BTW I bet your wife would dig how pro a rack looks. The others are meant to be mounted typically inside a low voltage box:

Structured Media Enclosures - Leviton Connected Home

Whether you use a rack or not, an LV panel with some punch down panels is guaranteed to be wife approved as far as wire termination goes... way better looking than a bunch of overpacked keystones swelling out the wall. Have you ever done a 6-keystone outlet? I will never again...

Kev

That's definitely a lot better than a bunch of keystones. Thanks for the link! Didn't know those existed.

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[bob2701]

Drill holes in each corner of the 12 port patch panel and you can mount it on the wall. Cut a vertical hole in the Sheetrock so all the connectors are recessed.

 

[truglo]

Mine had plastic mounting brackets that they clicked into. I drilled the brackets to match the holes and used the leviton plastic rivets to fasten it to the panel.

I opened my walls for wiring (redid all the wire actually not just comms... the house needed work when I bought it). I added 3x 1.5" conduits for cat6, 2x 1" conduits for speakers and phone, and a surge protected outlet to my 28" box. I thought it was overkill at the time. Now that I am adding cams, the extra empty 1.5" conduit brings a smile to my face. Any electrician will tell you, always run twice as much as you think you'll need.

 

[Mike A.]

Yes they make the 19" rack mountable panels, which BTW I bet your wife would dig how pro a rack looks...

The rack mounted ones are kind of a pain wire and make it difficult if you ever need to add, move or change things in the rack or panel. Unless maybe you have something like a stand-alone rack in a datacenter where everything is in racks and you have to, then better in most home-use cases to keep your cables terminating on the wall and jump over with patches to your rack. Not as bad if you just have a few but when you're trying to wrangle 24 in there it can be tight.

 

[truglo]

I was going to mention, wiring my pair of 12 port patch panels was a shoehorn exercise. 6 wires coming in one side, 6 more in the other, and with Cat6 I had to be neat otherwise the wires would be too bulky for it to snap securely in it's mount.

Not to put anyone off though; patch panels are worth the cost+effort. If you decide to move a component from the top to the bottom of your location, a bundle of terminated wires coming out the wall might not work out. Patch panels afford the flexibility of patch cords. For example if later on you decide your switch should go somewhere else on the stack/rack, you can easily cut/reterminate a patch cable to make it shorter. You could also make a longer one, which would be better than splicing or running a whole new wire through the attic.

 

[Mike A.]

Oh... Sorry, wasn't as clear as I might have been. Wasn't saying not to use a panel. Panels are great. They're just better for most purposes when mounted to the wall and patching over vs mounted IN your rack. Unless it's a case where you have to rack mount for some reason.