Placement of NVR in 2 story house?

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,448
Reaction score
47,573
Location
USA
At least like you said, you didn't fall for the 4k trap that would have placed a 4k sensor on the same sensor size as the 5MP you are looking at!

If you haven't purchased yet, see if Amcrest or Lorex (basically same thing as they are made by Dahua) has a deal on any 2MP cams as they would be on the same sensor as the 5MP and will perform way better at night than the 5MP.
 

Slammed01

Young grasshopper
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Messages
46
Reaction score
21
Location
Brentwood ca
At least like you said, you didn't fall for the 4k trap that would have placed a 4k sensor on the same sensor size as the 5MP you are looking at!

If you haven't purchased yet, see if Amcrest or Lorex (basically same thing as they are made by Dahua) has a deal on any 2MP cams as they would be on the same sensor as the 5MP and will perform way better at night than the 5MP.
That was a close one on the 4ks, I went to Costco and almost got there 4k lorex kit. Then I researched the crap outta it and watched YouTube videos lol. I will def check those out.

So what does the limited 80k nvr streaming mean, limit the remote or monitor viewing?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,448
Reaction score
47,573
Location
USA
My 2MP cameras outperform my neighbors 4K (8MP) cameras....why....because they are both on the same size sensor.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system but mine. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4k Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from @EMPIRETECANDY here based on my recommendation and seeing my results. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location.

The NVRs from the box units like a Amcrest and Lorex cap out incoming bandwidth (which impacts the resolution and FPS of the cameras). The Lorex and Amcrest NVR maxes out at 80Mbps and truly only one or a couple cameras that will display 4K. My neighbor with his 4k Costco system was limited to that and he is all upset it isn't 4K for all eight channels and he was capped out at 4096 bitrate on each camera so it was a pixelated mess.

Bandwidth limitations are how much data can pass from all the cameras into the NVR and back out. Resolution, FPS, and bitrate determine the Mbps and a 4k camera needs more than 4096 bitrate but because the NVR couldn't handle it, even though he set 8192 in the camera, the NVR cut it half.
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,690
Location
New Jersey
It limits the total resolution of all the cameras that can be processed. 80K would be limited to ten 8K or 20 4K cameras for example. I could easily be wrong since I don't use NVRs and never worry about bandwidth capacity using a PC and BI. And @wittaj was faster on the keyboard.
 

Slammed01

Young grasshopper
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Messages
46
Reaction score
21
Location
Brentwood ca
Makes sense!! Friend uses BI but said if I don’t want to tinker with it a lot stick to a nvr. I asked him cause I had a spare desktop not used but prob not up to specs. More like basic work stuff dell setup.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,448
Reaction score
47,573
Location
USA
What are the specs? With the newest versions and substreams, you can get by with a 4th generation CPU...

And this is one of the many reasons why many here go to Blue Iris...an $80 NVR off Amazon will not cut it nor will that all-in-one box kit from Costco LOL....but for several hundred dollars just for the NVR you can start to get capable NVRs.

I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is a stripped down computer after all....and isn't true plug-n-play like people believe. You still have to dial the cameras into your setting. Once you do that, might as well go with something that has the best chance of working with many different camera brands. And I have found Blue Iris to be more robust and easier than an NVR. As always, YMMV...

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR. You don't need to buy components and build one, and your computer may be sufficient.

Many of these refurbished computers are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here just last month found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

As I said, keep in mind that NVRs from the box units like a Amcrest and Lorex cap out incoming bandwidth (which impacts the resolution and FPS of the cameras). The Lorex and Amcrest NVR maxes out at 80Mbps and truly only one or a couple cameras that will display 4K. And I mentioned my neighbor's was limited to that and he is all upset it isn't 4K for all eight channels and he was capped out at 4096 bitrate on each camera so it was a pixelated mess.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure. These also tend to be more secure as antivirus software is updated way more frequently than NVR firmware.
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,511
Reaction score
27,690
Location
New Jersey
Don't write off your spare PC so quickly. Recent changes in BI have made older hardware able to easily handle systems that previously wouldn't run on them. Using sub streams has made a night a day difference in both CPU utilization and requirements. Throw in DeepStack, AI recognition, and storage requirements have also gotten vastly different. My system used to run at 40-50% utilization of the CPU prior to sub streams. Now it runs at 10-20%. I used to be able to store about two weeks of video on 11TB, 4TB and 8TB drives in the machine, now it's up to at least a month.
 

Slammed01

Young grasshopper
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Messages
46
Reaction score
21
Location
Brentwood ca
Let me dig this computer out and get some specs today!

It is a refurb computer that I bought a few years ago from a business lease. Exactly like my work had which is why I bought haha. This is amazing!
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,448
Reaction score
47,573
Location
USA
Oh then I bet it is more than capable! If it is a 4430 or above you are good to go. Heck with substreams and 4-8 cameras you could probably get by with a 3,000 series 3rd generation!
 

SpacemanSpiff

Known around here
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
1,456
Reaction score
2,432
Location
USA
Take a look at the system information, specifically what model processor is in it. Control Panel > System and Security > System

Win10/Pro is the desired version of Windows.
If the OS does not boot... you might find the info in the BIOS
 

mat200

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
13,670
Reaction score
22,775
Yes yes and yes. Attached and yes typical with garage by front door. Will try to put together sketch but 3 up front, 2 covering driveway/front, 1 at front door and 1 each side with 1 covering rear (maybe 2) depending on run/pricing of conduit.
Hi @Slammed01

Thanks, with a construction like that I would use the garage as the place for most of the work as I can work there and get coverage of 1 side of the house, the garage and driveway, and the front door.
( 2 cameras covering the driveway, 1 on the side of the house, and 1-2 cameras covering the front door - all from the garage area )

That would be the main area. Due to that I would need to determine where to put the network data closet for the house, and perhaps the garage is just a poe switch location with a couple cat5e/6 going to my main data closet.
 

Slammed01

Young grasshopper
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Messages
46
Reaction score
21
Location
Brentwood ca
Hi @Slammed01

Thanks, with a construction like that I would use the garage as the place for most of the work as I can work there and get coverage of 1 side of the house, the garage and driveway, and the front door.
( 2 cameras covering the driveway, 1 on the side of the house, and 1-2 cameras covering the front door - all from the garage area )

That would be the main area. Due to that I would need to determine where to put the network data closet for the house, and perhaps the garage is just a poe switch location with a couple cat5e/6 going to my main data closet.

I thought it wasn’t ok to place a switch in a garage due to heat? Just going by what I learned from research
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,448
Reaction score
47,573
Location
USA
Many have them in attics and garages just fine.
 

Slammed01

Young grasshopper
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Messages
46
Reaction score
21
Location
Brentwood ca
Dell optixplexb990

Windows 7 with I5 chip, intel had graphics 2000 card icore dual/quad core.

Processor intel 2nd generation
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,448
Reaction score
47,573
Location
USA
I guess the real question is do you feel like the DVR interface you are dealing with now is wonderful and easy to use....for the most part an NVR will be similar...

There is a big debate here on which is better. Personally I found the NVRs to be too clunky and not very user friendly and got to the point that I was reactive instead of proactive. I literally tested BI and knew within a few minutes it was better than any NVR I ever had.

Like literally I would go months on end not even looking at the NVR videos because the interface was too clunky and would take forever to pull up any motion from the night before. And ended up turning off the alerts because there were so many false triggers. I would only look at it if I could tell someone messed with something on my property or a neighbor asked me if my cameras caught anything.

With BI, in addition to being able to configure it such that I get notifications whenever someone gets too close to my house, I can literally in less than 30 seconds every morning do a quick review to see if there was any suspicious activity or people walking down the sidewalk at 2am. I could never do it that fast with an NVR.
 

mat200

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
13,670
Reaction score
22,775
I thought it wasn’t ok to place a switch in a garage due to heat? Just going by what I learned from research
Hi @Slammed01

Is the garage unfinished?

If so, I'd cable everything up, and finish up the garage. My friend did that and the garage is now very nice in the summers.
( yes, you do not want it to get too hot or humid.. tho remember google iirc runs their data centers at about 80 degrees F .. so you can use that as a planning number for a low humidity location also .. also, if you get a good switch they can run well in hotter conditions )
 

Slammed01

Young grasshopper
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Messages
46
Reaction score
21
Location
Brentwood ca
Hi @Slammed01

Is the garage unfinished?

If so, I'd cable everything up, and finish up the garage. My friend did that and the garage is now very nice in the summers.
( yes, you do not want it to get too hot or humid.. tho remember google iirc runs their data centers at about 80 degrees F .. so you can use that as a planning number for a low humidity location also .. also, if you get a good switch they can run well in hotter conditions )

It’s finished but weather gets 100+ So can get pretty toasty!! May look into that how ever if I go blue iris.
 
Top