Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?

Frankenscript

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Did you forget about the videos from a few years back of BLM chanting "pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon"?

Or the one one with them chanting "what do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now."?

This is not a call for vigilantism?

Oh yeah, they said I was taken out of context. It was a joke. Come on. Give me a break.
The BLM movement, like most movements, has a past that isn't squeaky clean and a present that includes fringe outliers that take it too far. The mainstream of the movement is peaceful folks working for social change against a "system" (read, police widespread mentality and operating procedures) that makes them the target for disproportionate violence. My wife wanted to put up a BLM sign (we discussed this yesterday) but things like you posted above stick in my mind too, and I told her I didn't want to do that, but I'd be supportive of a diversity sign not specifically calling out BLM.

My main point, and let's be really clear about this, is that is VERY EASY to get sucked in and amplify the message of fringe elements that either make stuff up or misrepresent actual data. Remember a month or two ago I posted a "Tweet by Trump from 2009" where he criticized Obama. You guys quickly pointed out it was fake, I verified the fake nature, and posted a retraction. What you didn't see is a lot of crap I gave my friend that I got it from about spreading fake news and thus making me look like an idiot in front of a relatively pro-Trump forum. :oops: :facepalm: :rofl:

I've done the same debunking about that graph by @Oceanslider in post 4067, with irrefutable facts. He wasn't racist for posting something that appeared credible to make a good argument. I don't have reason to believe any of you guys are racist. If I did I wouldn't bother to be here. But now that it's been debunked and shown to be misleading, I'd hope that he would post a note under it showing that it has been proven to be a misleading graph and that hopefully he disavows it. This would be better than deleting it. I'd also suggest the 5 people who liked it would unlike it, now that it's been shown to be pretty far from the truth. But I don't control anybody. It was useful to me to go through the exercise of digging into it.

I wish you all the best.
 

Oceanslider

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The BLM movement, like most movements, has a past that isn't squeaky clean and a present that includes fringe outliers that take it too far. The mainstream of the movement is peaceful folks working for social change against a "system" (read, police widespread mentality and operating procedures) that makes them the target for disproportionate violence. My wife wanted to put up a BLM sign (we discussed this yesterday) but things like you posted above stick in my mind too, and I told her I didn't want to do that, but I'd be supportive of a diversity sign not specifically calling out BLM.

My main point, and let's be really clear about this, is that is VERY EASY to get sucked in and amplify the message of fringe elements that either make stuff up or misrepresent actual data. Remember a month or two ago I posted a "Tweet by Trump from 2009" where he criticized Obama. You guys quickly pointed out it was fake, I verified the fake nature, and posted a retraction. What you didn't see is a lot of crap I gave my friend that I got it from about spreading fake news and thus making me look like an idiot in front of a relatively pro-Trump forum. :oops: :facepalm: :rofl:

I've done the same debunking about that graph by @Oceanslider in post 4067, with irrefutable facts. He wasn't racist for posting something that appeared credible to make a good argument. I don't have reason to believe any of you guys are racist. If I did I wouldn't bother to be here. But now that it's been debunked and shown to be misleading, I'd hope that he would post a note under it showing that it has been proven to be a misleading graph and that hopefully he disavows it. This would be better than deleting it. I'd also suggest the 5 people who liked it would unlike it, now that it's been shown to be pretty far from the truth. But I don't control anybody. It was useful to me to go through the exercise of digging into it.

I wish you all the best.
Those 2013 Numbers turned graph was posted by a black conservative on Twitter. I just copied and pasted, yes. Did you listen to that Larry Elder clip I posted awhile back. He states numbers there. Not sure where he got them but He sounds convinced they are true.

In the video I posted in the link above Larry states the number for Cops killing blacks starting around 24:50

And if BLM was true, where is their response about the Black retired cop who was shot And killed during the “Peaceful Protests” ?

I keep hearing that most all of these shooting involved resisting arrest. How would like you like to be a white cop in a predominately black area? How safe would you feel these days.

Listen to what Larry goes on to state about what happened in Baltimore where Freddie Gray died.
 
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Oceanslider

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Frankenscript, can you tell me that Leftist are not pushing a false narrative of majorly prevalent racism by whites and cops?
Watch this CNN clip:

Did Trump really say "White Men" have a lot to fear?
Would you call this pushing a racial narrative that is true?
This was about the Kavanaugh case. Where did the race element come out of Trumps comments?
This is a portion of Trumps meeting with the press:

Tell me where they extrapolated the race issue?

Do you honestly think that what Cabrera and Lamont did in that CNN news clip promotes good racial relations? Was it a lie? Would you consider what they did racist?
 
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Frankenscript

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View attachment 63218



This is not about Blacks. It is about Leftist controlling the narrative to bring America down and divide us as a nation.
So, I already gave you credible non-politically-biased sources that show you're close to 3x more likely to suffer "death by cop" if you are black than if you are white. But I'd like to explore this further, by pointing out some fake news elements in what was posted here. For the record my beef is with whoever created the chart, not with Oceanslider for repeating it. It appears credible until you dig into how the numbers were used.

1. There are 6x more white folks in America than black folks. By presenting the data as per million of the "Murder's" (sic) race, you are imposing a bias on the visualization that will make the killing of blacks by whites look tiny compared to the killing of blacks by whites. The proper analysis needs to divide by the population of the VICTIM's race, not the killer's race. If you do the math properly, and use data from pew research about relative population, you get this graph instead that says, essentially, if you are black you are about 2.3X more likley to be killed by a white person than it would be for a white person to be killed by a black person.
View attachment 63265
Clearly, if you are black, the primary risk comes from other black people, and if you are white, the main risk is from other white people. But the chart that was originally posted dramatically over-represents the risk to white people from blacks, and minimizes the risk to blacks from whites. This is the alt-right narrative. It's racist as fuQ. Whoever made that chart (again, not Oceanslider) was trying to stoke fear in whites against blacks and minimize the very idea that in the context of inter-racial killings, it's blacks who are more at risk than whites.

2. The next problem Is that the chart uses the wrong data. The link to the FBI table specifically makes the chart appear credible (not counting the typo about "Murder" versus Murderer, and the fact that not all the homicides reported in the table actually were murders...). The BLM movement is against the state and vigilantes (vigilante killings exist but are statistically rare). Check out the statement at the BLM page.

"#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives. "

So, the black on black violence problem shown in the chart isn't in scope for BLM. It's a huge problem with deep economic and societal roots (read ANY ONE of the references Q gave), but it isn't what BLM is about.

The references I posted yesterday show that for state violence, which is mostly cops killing civilians, it's blacks who are at a disadvantage by about 2.8 to 1, normalized against the victim's race.
Frankenscript, can you tell me that Leftist are not pushing a false narrative of majorly prevalent racism by whites and cops?
Watch this CNN clip:

Did Trump really say "White Men" have a lot to fear?
Would you call this pushing a racial narrative that is true?
This was about the Kavanaugh case. Where did the race element come out of Trumps comments?
This is a portion of Trumps meeting with the press:

Tell me where they extrapolated the race issue?

Do you honestly think that what Cabrera and Lamont did in that CNN news clip promotes good racial relations? Was it a lie? Would you consider what they did racist?
It's a busy weekend and I've used a lot of my play time already but I took a quick look. Neither Cabrera nor Lamont should have attributed the "white me" part to Trump. She retracted it the next day. This should never have aired; it was unequivocally wrong.
1591463979539.png



However the overall article wasn't bad with the exception of that. The very SNL clip incorporates the right words and the CNN article shows the correct text without the word white:
1591463411940.png

If I were fact checking it I would give it a "mostly correct" rating calling out the specific error about the Trump quotes. Is it pushing a racial narrative? One exists even though Trump said young men and not white men. Trump promulgated the "birther" theory long after the issue was conclusively settled, and trashing the first black president on the basis of "Trumped up conspiracy theories" ( :) sorry this never gets old!) about not being a citizen is simply can't be excused. This one thing, even if there was nothing else ever (and, there's lots!) makes him a racist and opens up the race context in any other discussion in which he is involved.
 

Parley

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It's good there's more video; I don't get much from it either way.
I see nothing wrong in this part of the video. Unfortunately it stops at the point when they are trying to get George Floyd into the back of the police car and I assume that is where the trouble begins. The rest of this video is obviously there but it is not being shown for some reason. However I am sure it will all be shown at the trial(s).
 
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...
Trump promulgated the "birther" theory long after the issue was conclusively settled, and trashing the first black president on the basis of "Trumped up conspiracy theories" ( :) sorry this never gets old!) about not being a citizen is simply can't be excused. This one thing, even if there was nothing else ever (and, there's lots!) makes him a racist and opens up the race context in any other discussion in which he is involved.
BS. Questioning eligibility to run for POTUS does not make one racist.
I criticized the ACA--- I was told "You're just RACIST!" Literally. This happened repeatedly. If I opposed a PROGRAM or POLICY of Obama-- the only possible reason I could have is that I am a RACIST. Fuck that. That is a goddam racist act to accuse me.

Now--- the running narrative that unarmed black men MUST live in fear if they see police is bullshit as well. There is the 2.5X factor when percent of population is taken into account, and I will agree that the discrepancy is almost certainly due to BIAS. Perhaps, Maybe, that bias is generated from the fact that Black violent crime accounts for a huge disproportionate percentage of the total. Law Enforcement who see the reality of those statistics every day may come to appreciate the greater likelihood (statistically) of a violent encounter with a black man. Ooooohhh... is that racist? Or is that fact supported by statistics? (BTW-- the RACE of the person doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me-- this is a CULTURAL problem, not one of RACE)

1591465101669.png

Nobody should die, handcuffed, face-down in the street with a knee on their neck. Cops shouldn't die giving a traffic ticket either. Both bad things. One does not negate the other.
 
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I see nothing wrong in this part of the video. Unfortunately it stops at the point when they are trying to get George Floyd into the back of the police car and I assume that is where the trouble begins. The rest of this video is obviously there but it is not being shown for some reason. However I am sure it will all be shown at the trial(s).
=OT= sort of....

I wonder what kind of camera that is.... good image quality! :)
 

Frankenscript

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Those 2013 Numbers turned graph was posted by a black conservative on Twitter. I just copied and pasted, yes. Did you listen to that Larry Elder clip I posted awhile back. He states numbers there. Not sure where he got them but He sounds convinced they are true.

In the video I posted in the link above Larry states the number for Cops killing blacks starting around 24:50

And if BLM was true, where is their response about the Black retired cop who was shot And killed during the “Peaceful Protests” ?

I keep hearing that most all of these shooting involved resisting arrest. How would like you like to be a white cop in a predominately black area? How safe would you feel these days.

Listen to what Larry goes on to state about what happened in Baltimore where Freddie Gray died.
OK, I watched the relevant part of the Elder video. A few comments:

I grew up in Baltimore; when I was in my late teens I worked at a job with predominantly black coworkers. Mostly they didn't like the term African American either, they said they were black. They pointed out I don't refer to myself as European-American (my Mom emigrated to the US after my parents got married; my Dad's side has been here for a long time).

I disagree with him on his view about there not being a problem with systemic problem with blacks being killed by cops disproportionately and all the statistics back me up. It's consistently a 2-3x disadvantage. He's slicing the numbers in a particular way and picking specific examples that help his argument. But the national data trend is against that specific argument. He did reference a decline in violence against blacks by cops; this is due to the pressure brought about by the visibility that this issue now has. He even states that there's been no change in the figures for whites.

I agree with him that black on black violence is a larger problem in terms of numbers. It's not the issue BLM is addressing. They are focused on state and vigilantes.

Larry Elder is a libertarian who likes to make the news and has his own show. I agree with a lot of what he says and I disagree with a lot of what he says. He's intelligent and articulate and hopefully will be seen by history as more a part of the solution than part of the problem. But it's also easy to take bites from what he says and use to support a narrative he might not like. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but those that pull numbers from a short section of the clip could do so.
 

Frankenscript

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BS. Questioning eligibility to run for POTUS does not make one racist.
I criticized the ACA--- I was told "You're just RACIST!" Literally. This happened repeatedly. If I opposed a PROGRAM or POLICY of Obama-- the only possible reason I could have is that I am a RACIST. Fuck that. That is a goddam racist act to accuse me.

Now--- the running narrative that unarmed black men MUST live in fear if they see police is bullshit as well. There is the 2.5X factor when percent of population is taken into account, and I will agree that the discrepancy is almost certainly due to BIAS. Perhaps, Maybe, that bias is generated from the fact that Black violent crime accounts for a huge disproportionate percentage of the total. Law Enforcement who see the reality of those statistics every day may come to appreciate the greater likelihood (statistically) of a violent encounter with a black man. Ooooohhh... is that racist? Or is that fact supported by statistics? (BTW-- the RACE of the person doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me-- this is a CULTURAL problem, not one of RACE)

View attachment 63276

Nobody should die, handcuffed, face-down in the street with a knee on their neck. Cops shouldn't die giving a traffic ticket either. Both bad things. One does not negate the other.
Last post for the afternoon for me.

Question the eligibility to run? Sure, not racist. Keeping the conspiracy theory going long after it was debunked? That's racist.

I agree with you that you should be able to disagree with Obama policies without the racist label. I won't ever call you or anyone a racist on that basis.

I also agree with you that more crime happens in urban/black areas due to socioeconomic factors and this is a cultural / systemic problem (see the 657 articles Q posted yesterday :)

Regarding:
"Nobody should die, handcuffed, face-down in the street with a knee on their neck. Cops shouldn't die giving a traffic ticket either. Both bad things. One does not negate the other."
For this, I apply the :love: emoji.

Peace to you all. I'm off to do some hobby stuff then spend a couple hours catching up on my job. June is a tough month for me.
 

Jessie.slimer

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It's good there's more video; I don't get much from it either way.
In my opinion, whatever happened prior to the murder is irrelevant. I don't care if he attacked, spit on, swore at, or resisted the police. He was put in cuffs and was clearly detained. Thats the part where he should have been put in the car and taken away. Not too many people will say differently i suspect.
 

mat200

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FYI -

We are experiencing what is to be expected due to the PRC allowing SARS2 to get out and bloom. Pandemic -> social and economic unrest.

This is a part of the economic war that the PRC is engaged in, and this particular war is more challenging than most as it is splitting society. There will be a chance of civil war..

Do expect the CCP PRC to leverage the situation to establish a stronger dominant position, and to help further fan the flames from the embers they spread throughout the world from Wuhan.


Recall the spark that lead to Tunsia's Arab spring

Tarek el-Tayeb Mohamed Bouazizi (Arabic: طارق الطيب محمد البوعزيزي‎, romanized: Ṭāriq aṭ-Ṭayib Muḥammad al-Būʿazīzī; 29 March 1984 – 4 January 2011) was a Tunisian street vendor who set himself on fire on 17 December 2010, which became a catalyst for the Tunisian Revolution and the wider Arab Spring against autocratic regimes. His self-immolation was in response to the confiscation of his wares and the harassment and humiliation inflicted on him by a municipal official and her aides.

References:
and
and
 
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Parley

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In my opinion, whatever happened prior to the murder is irrelevant. I don't care if he attacked, spit on, swore at, or resisted the police. He was put in cuffs and was clearly detained. Thats the part where he should have been put in the car and taken away. Not too many people will say differently i suspect.
I believe they did try to put him in the police car but that is when things went wrong. Eventually we will get the whole story.
 

Frankenscript

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Wow, just wow, at how you dismiss and sidestep this. Whatever.
And what a load of crap. What show, what comment?
So heartfelt :poop:
Well, I've pointed out very clearly why the graph you posted in post 4047 is inaccurate, uses data out of context, applies faulty analysis, and doesn't even speak to the actual issue behind BLM. You have yet to post any retraction/clarification in that post. When I accidentally posted fake news, I retracted it. I invite you to do the same. Leaving it up without clarification just feeds the alt-right.

And I think Cabrera's retraction was clearly understood in the time when it was relevant. And keep in mind, out of a minute and half spot, there were two spoken words that were wrong, while the correct words of the president were up on the screen repeatedly.

I would point out retractions made where a Fox host mis-spoke, but I fear breaking the internet by searching for "Fox news errors" or similar things. And Trump retracts/corrects so rarely it borders on never (I'm sure there's an example, somewhere, so I won't say he never does).

CNN has become more biased over time, but at least has roots as a news organization rather than mostly op-ed format that Fox uses.
 

Arjun

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I don't know where @mat200 has been, but his link to Medcram had me intrigued. Here's a recent update


Its very important to keep up to date with current events. As more states and regions begin Phase 1 reopening, assume that cases are at their all time high and maintain precaution for the next couple of weeks. People will get too excited and head out to the beach, malls, and other public spaces all at once. This will be the norm going forward.

Current.PNG
 
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