New Member - Two Way Talk, Siren, Homekit, Blue Iris

Stuart Wagner

Stuart Wagner

n3wb
Apr 1, 2018
11
1
Hi All -

Been reading a good deal and think I understand the very basics. Looking to purchase cams for a home I recently purchased. My needs are

1) Decent night vision with sound
2) Ability to two way talk when someone comes to door
3) Potential integration with homekit
4) A noise siren potentially with the siren light that ideally integrates with blue iris

I've settled likely on a decent Dahua camera with external ability to plug in a mic.

Are there any specific sirens and two way talk mechanisms you'd recommend? I searched two way talk, and nothing very positive about it comes up with security camera's I've seen on this site, however Nest and Ring for example offer it. Why doesn't this exist for hobbyists?

Also, any recs on a siren or emergency speaker that integrates with blue iris also would be helpful!

Thanks for the great information!

Stuart
 
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Had two-way talk on an Arlo system. Quality was horrible and there was a 5-8 second delay. Seemed like it’s more of a gimmick to get people to buy.

There are cameras that have built in microphones. Some others that do not can have them added as a stand-alone device. Several threads with discussions and reviews are out there.

Nothing in the Security and Automation section cover intercoms and alarms?

You are not going to find anything that works with HomeKit a this level.

The all-in-one covers everything is not out there. Piecing it together to meet most of your needs, like you are trying, is the closest you are going to get.

Welcome to the forums!
 
Thanks, that Hik rebranded doorbell was very close to my needs but not quite there. Spent a lot of time learning about it. Some problems I identified with it 1) It's not ethernet and 2) I confirmed that when doing two way calls from outside the home, the traffic is directed to a server in a china and then sent back to the app. That means each packet makes a trip to China and back, which is bad news. The night performance on it also is not great, but it was the closest doorbell I found to something I'd buy. I'm looking at some other similar Dahua Starlights that I'll ask about once I'm ready to do that, but I'm currently focused on a two way talk camera to function as my doorbell.

What I want is an Ethernet supported, outdoor camera with decent resolution and two way full duplex talk without cloud needs and Onvif support. WiFi is useful for testing but won't be permanent or necessary. Having sd card support is nice to have. There are not many things that suit these requirements (no doorbell that is decent does ethernet alone). I found a few indoor cameras that make the cut, and there are some kits to outfit them for outdoor use. A quick rollup for those interested below.

Amcrest makes a number of these cameras with both WiFi and ethernet, as does dericam. Most of these through an injector can support POE. They aren't very expensive and offer two way talk. They are indoor cameras, so they require a little work to make them acceptable for outdoor use, but at this price it may be worth the risk. There was a great samsung 1080p camera that used to support these needs, but they disabled it through firmware in 2015 so avoid that one.

The cameras I'm currently considering are below. A number of them are PTZ, but my concern is potential compat challenges with Blue Iris and the potential for the mechanical parts to wear out if I have it constantly programmed to move to reach my field of vision desired. Consequently, I've decided I probably would prefer a larger field of vision for a "doorbell replacement" camera.

The camera I'm most considering is this one, as it has large field of view for doorbell and meets my feature needs and is decent resolution. I'll have to use a POE switch to make it work. Will probably need this for POE to ethernet + power. If you want to save money (and possibly get better nighttime performance), they make a 960p one here.

PTZs people might be interested in this or this. The second is a POE one, but there is a cheaper one with very similar specs that has ethernet and power

One question I have for two way talk systems before I make a decision on the Amcrest 2k 140 degree camera and try it out. Because they can't rely on Blue Iris for two-way talk as it doesn't support it well (so I've read), I think I'll need to expose the camera to the internet. What is the safest and most appropriate way to do this given the context of a likely POE switch feeding into my desktop computer running blue iris? Can I select a single ip address to receive access to the internet, and open only the specific port for that app's call to it? Are there other ways to lock it down so that I don't get a virus that infects either my other cameras or my primary computer wifi network? I didn't see anything discussed about this in the two-way talk discussions, so feedback here would be very helpful before I make a purchase. Any other feedback or knowledge posted here would be super helpful.
 
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Stuart Wagner said:
Thanks, that Hik rebranded doorbell was very close to my needs but not quite there. Spent a lot of time learning about it. Some problems I identified with it 1) It's not ethernet and 2) I confirmed that when doing two way calls from outside the home, the traffic is directed to a server in a china and then sent back to the app. That means each packet makes a trip to China and back, which is bad news. The night performance on it also is not great, but it was the closest doorbell I found to something I'd buy. I'm looking at some other similar Dahua Starlights that I'll ask about once I'm ready to do that, but I'm currently focused on a two way talk camera to function as my doorbell.

What I want is an Ethernet supported, outdoor camera with decent resolution and two way full duplex talk without cloud needs and Onvif support. WiFi is useful for testing but won't be permanent or necessary. Having sd card support is nice to have. There are not many things that suit these requirements (no doorbell that is decent does ethernet alone). I found a few indoor cameras that make the cut, and there are some kits to outfit them for outdoor use. A quick rollup for those interested below.

Amcrest makes a number of these cameras with both WiFi and ethernet, as does dericam. Most of these through an injector can support POE. They aren't very expensive and offer two way talk. They are indoor cameras, so they require a little work to make them acceptable for outdoor use, but at this price it may be worth the risk. There was a great samsung 1080p camera that used to support these needs, but they disabled it through firmware in 2015 so avoid that one.

The cameras I'm currently considering are below. A number of them are PTZ, but my concern is potential compat challenges with Blue Iris and the potential for the mechanical parts to wear out if I have it constantly programmed to move to reach my field of vision desired. Consequently, I've decided I probably would prefer a larger field of vision for a "doorbell replacement" camera.

The camera I'm most considering is this one, as it has large field of view for doorbell and meets my feature needs and is decent resolution. I'll have to use a POE switch to make it work. Will probably need this for POE to ethernet + power.

PTZs people might be interested in this or this. The second is a POE one, but there is a cheaper one with very similar specs that has ethernet and power

One question I have for two way talk systems before I make a decision on the Amcrest 2k 140 degree camera and try it out. Because they can't rely on Blue Iris for two-way talk as it doesn't support it well (so I've read), I think I'll need to expose the camera to the internet. What is the safest and most appropriate way to do this given the context of a likely POE switch feeding into my desktop computer running blue iris? Can I select a single ip address to receive access to the internet, and open only the specific port for that app's call to it? Are there other ways to lock it down so that I don't get a virus that infects either my other cameras or my primary computer wifi network? I didn't see anything discussed about this in the two-way talk discussions, so feedback here would be very helpful before I make a purchase. Any other feedback or knowledge posted here would be super helpful.
Click to expand...
amcrest makes nothing, dahua makes it for them. Dericam is pure garbage..both are half duplex not full duplex.
You dont need to expose anything to the internet..read the vpn primer for noobs thread...
not sure where you read that blue iris does not support two way talk, it sure does...its half duplex just as the cameras are.
A better solution to the crap indoor cams you want to use is an outdoor rated mini ptz dahua + a speaker and amp...
also see the grandstream doorbell...its big but poe and onvif...one user mentions using it with BI but doesnt specify two way audio via BI...you can buy it and test.
 
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Thanks! Amcrest claimed to me today they manufacture their own cams (I didn't believe that) but I couldn't find those models on Dahua. Looked similar to Foscam.

How sure are you that none of the cameras are full duplex? How does ring, nest, samsung do it? BI I've read only supports half duplex. I'd like to find full duplex.

Grandstream looks big and beyond my budget for two doorbells @ over $400. I'm sure it works well but that is expensive.

Honestly, just want the hardware of a Nest or Ring in an ovnif system. Samsung's new doorbell might do it but not officially and given their history might kill it through firmware. The Reolink Argus 2 looks nifty if not for their lack of poe. Also, they claim it supports true duplex.

Are there any solutions with full duplex that don't require a proprietary app, cloud paid account that you are aware of? Doorbell, camera, indoor camera are all options on the table at this point.
 
Stuart Wagner said:
Thanks! Amcrest claimed to me today they manufacture their own cams (I didn't believe that) but I couldn't find those models on Dahua. Looked similar to Foscam.

How sure are you that none of the cameras are full duplex? How does ring, nest, samsung do it? BI I've read only supports half duplex. I'd like to find full duplex.

Grandstream looks big and beyond my budget for two doorbells @ over $400. I'm sure it works well but that is expensive.

Honestly, just want the hardware of a Nest or Ring in an ovnif system. Samsung's new doorbell might do it but not officially and given their history might kill it through firmware. The Reolink Argus 2 looks nifty if not for their lack of poe. Also, they claim it supports true duplex.

Are there any solutions with full duplex that don't require a proprietary app, cloud paid account that you are aware of? Doorbell, camera, indoor camera are all options on the table at this point.
Click to expand...
Ask them yourself, they are all half duplex...I didnt say it cant be done...want ring buy ring...
The greandstream is available for 285 google is your friend.
One more time, its the camera that limits to half duplex...not blue iris...
reolink is a garbage lying company...if you buy anything from them you deserve the consequences.
Honestly, buy ring or nest...there is no need for a doorbell to be integrated into your blue iris system..
 
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Stuart Wagner said:
Hi All -

Been reading a good deal and think I understand the very basics. Looking to purchase cams for a home I recently purchased. My needs are

1) Decent night vision with sound
2) Ability to two way talk when someone comes to door
3) Potential integration with homekit
4) A noise siren potentially with the siren light that ideally integrates with blue iris

I've settled likely on a decent Dahua camera with external ability to plug in a mic.

Are there any specific sirens and two way talk mechanisms you'd recommend? I searched two way talk, and nothing very positive about it comes up with security camera's I've seen on this site, however Nest and Ring for example offer it. Why doesn't this exist for hobbyists?

Also, any recs on a siren or emergency speaker that integrates with blue iris also would be helpful!

Thanks for the great information!

Stuart
Click to expand...

Welcome Stuart,

From the research I have done no one product / solution readily meets all the requirements for most people.

This is what I have noticed
1) For the front door most people are looking for really a VoIP intercom system which has video - not really a security camera product with 2 way voice.
Thus look for video intercom solutions ( Dahua has a number, look here in ipct for villa station and other like terms )

I like the idea of having BOTH a video intercom by the door as well as a security camera covering the front door. This way I can best place the intercom for it's function, and best place the camera for image / video capture.

2) Security Cameras traditionally have not had record / talk functionality - so I do not worry about that feature on each camera ( example only look for record functionality on some cameras )

3) Alarm System, a security camera system is not an alarm system - so you want to find another solution for that.

4) Smart home stuff .. still a rapidly evolving field - I would worry less about this and focus more on the core functionality you need first.

Have fun setting up your new house, and please do feel free to share you build out and experiences.

You can see other's sharing of their build out pictures here:
Installation Pics
 
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Hello -

Getting close to a purchase. Still struggling between the mini PTZ SD1A203T-GN and the
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE. Upon review, it does seem the 5231R-ZE is going to have better night performance and better zoom capabilities, which likely meets my needs more than having a camera I can move, especially given the fact that it can't auto track.

If I wanted auto-tracking, what would be the least expensive camera to try it out and set one up?

I also need an NVR and POE. Andy recommended this - NVR5216-16P-4KS2E - which seems priced reasonably. Sounds like I need to purchase my own spinning HD's which is fine. It seems this is a pretty good NVR, but just wanted to confirm that's the case in the event I decide to get into auto-tracking later. I believe I'll end up with ~8 cameras, but there is a chance it could go higher and I want protection for that.

Finally, I have some questions on POE. I'll be at least partially leveraging the wires inside my home built in 2005. The wires are Cat-6 manufactured in October 2004. I'm unclear if these are good enough to leverage for POE. If not, I likely will utilize them at least for the data and then add power at the edges where I can connect. What are your experiences and recommendations with cable in homes? How do you recommend we add power to cables at the edge? Also, am I able to leverage a hub off a single cable that goes into the NVR, or is best practice one camera to one wire? I ask because I intend to leverage one wire that goes to the front of my home and one that goes to the back of my home, then to use a hub to put ~4 cameras off those two central Cat-6 wires in my home.
 
If you want a good video doorbell with ethernet, your best option is probably the ring video doorbell elite. It's expensive, but I doubt you'll do better. For a wifi doorbell, the nest hello doorbell is also pretty good. These are cloud products that depend on an internet connect and cloud services.

If you want good security cameras, that's a different category of product and 2-way talk is not going to work that great. Most outdoor cameras lack speakers, you'd have to hook up an amplifier and speaker. You can find some voip intercom products, but they aren't cheap either

If you use a siren or other noisemaker to scare people off and it isn't tied to a real alarm system, you need to be careful. You can often be fined if it goes off for more than a few minutes (need a bell cut off timer). Just like the boy who cried wolf, you don't want to train your neighbors to ignore your home alarm system. To 'integrate' things like this with blue iris means running wires and doing something to give blue iris some i/o.

I haven't seen an ethernet hub since 2004. Switches have become much more common and are more desirable. A typical camera uses less than 10mbit of bandwidth, yes you can use a switch to send the video from multiple cameras over a single cable. PoE powered PoE switches do exist, but it's more practical to power a PoE switch directly from the AC power in your house. If all of the cameras aren't going to run directly to an NVR (assumes you go with an nvr), get the version without PoE and add your own PoE switches. The Ethernet cables in your house will be fine as long as they are solid copper.
 
I decided to go the other direction on doorbells. I had a few false beliefs when starting this thread. 1) That I would want to talk to people through a doorbell. I don't have time for that, and it's rare that I want to have a meaningful conversation with strangers coming to my door. 2) That the speed would be fast enough to support it. The delay between detecting someone is at your doorbell, sending signal over wifi, getting notification on phone, seeing notification on phone, clicking notification on phone, opening app, app loading and connecting to data feed, and getting there is at least 2-5 seconds. So you miss them even if you want to talk to them.

Sorry, I meant a PoE switch. Great, that answers my question, I'll get without PoE.

Just looking to question my purchase decision one more time. Is there a 4k camera I should be looking closely at with good night vision, or a PTR autotracker that I can purchase for say ~$350-$400 I should consider?

Thanks for the info, about to start the journey of getting everything set up.
 
Auto tracking is very often a huge disappointment. More cameras are better any time than a PTZ that may be looking the wrong way when something happens.

This camera will handle 90 percent of your locations just fine.
Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE

Andy's suggested NVR: NVR5216-16P-4KS2E

Better yet, Blue Iris on a dedicated machine.

Don't worry about megapixels.

Apparently you still need to study the Wiki.....just sayin.
 
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Hi Looney -

Thanks, I had reviewed the wiki in the past but had forgotten some items. I refreshed on it.

I took your suggestion and purchased 4 5231R-ZE. I also am intending to use my machine for blue iris to start, although it is of the X99 variety and therefore lacks quicksync but has a gtx980ti which I suspect should be more than enough.

I also purchased a POE+ switch, and I'm currently trying to connect the camera without success. I looked at the wiki, and it offers a linked piece of software to search for the camera but my experience with Dahua and smartPSS didn't yield success in the auto search functions.

My computer currently connects to a wifi network for internet, and I'm intentionally not connecting the cameras to that network. For now, I am trying to separately manage the cameras off another network. My desktop has a two lan connections, and I connected one to a cat 6 to my 5 port POE+ switch to the upload port, and the camera to one of the four ports on the switch. The problem is that I can't seem to find the ipaddress of the camera or know that it is working.

I tried turning off wifi and then using wireshark and pinging the source and destination ports. While I was able to find my own ip address on that network, I didn't receive responses from the other ipaddresses discovered.

I also tried Zenmap (gui for nmap) but didn't find much success there.

I presume the camera has a preassigned ipaddress, but without putting a router with dhcp on that network or enabling it on my desktop, I'm not sure how I would get it. Do you have suggestions?
 
Remember that the 5231R-ZE is a varifocal and not a zoom camera. It is designed to be adjusted to a suitable focal length at installation and left that way.

Check the subnet in the search of the Dahua config tool. It needs to match the subnet the camera comes configured with, 192.168.1.108, I believe (for some reason I have a mental block with that default address so it could be 192.168.0.108 instead).

Another doorbell camera to look at is the Doorbird, wired PoE. You're not going to find any doorbell camera with the specs you're looking for under $200USD.
 
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Stuart Wagner said:
Hi Looney -

Thanks, I had reviewed the wiki in the past but had forgotten some items. I refreshed on it.

I took your suggestion and purchased 4 5231R-ZE. I also am intending to use my machine for blue iris to start, although it is of the X99 variety and therefore lacks quicksync but has a gtx980ti which I suspect should be more than enough.

I also purchased a POE+ switch, and I'm currently trying to connect the camera without success. I looked at the wiki, and it offers a linked piece of software to search for the camera but my experience with Dahua and smartPSS didn't yield success in the auto search functions.

My computer currently connects to a wifi network for internet, and I'm intentionally not connecting the cameras to that network. For now, I am trying to separately manage the cameras off another network. My desktop has a two lan connections, and I connected one to a cat 6 to my 5 port POE+ switch to the upload port, and the camera to one of the four ports on the switch. The problem is that I can't seem to find the ipaddress of the camera or know that it is working.

I tried turning off wifi and then using wireshark and pinging the source and destination ports. While I was able to find my own ip address on that network, I didn't receive responses from the other ipaddresses discovered.

I also tried Zenmap (gui for nmap) but didn't find much success there.

I presume the camera has a preassigned ipaddress, but without putting a router with dhcp on that network or enabling it on my desktop, I'm not sure how I would get it. Do you have suggestions?
Click to expand...

Defaults for Dahua cams are 192.168.1.108 & admin/admin
Only plug ONE camera at a time into your POE switch.
Then plug your computer into the same POE switch.
Make sure your computer is set to the same subnet 192.168.1.100 for example.
Open IE, and go to the default address, you will get a prompt to change the password. Follow the screens.
Change the IP to something that aligns with your network subnet.
 
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Thanks for assistance, and quick update. So I temporarily connected the switch with my camera to my router with internet and disconnected internet. The router's local ip is 192.168.1.1. It worked and connected. However, when trying off that network through a switch, I still am not able to connect to the camera. I tried plugging into the upload and also into the standard ports for the computer, and also tried changing my static network to 192.168.1.107 on my desktop computer. Still didn't work. I'm wondering if I'm getting a conflict of some kind because I'm trying to connect to two different networks (wifi and another ethernet switch network) with the same computer. I also tried disconnecting from wifi. Neither worked.

Any other suggestions for connecting over the switch?

Stuart
 
Can you give us a sketch of the physical connections of your LAN? That would help a lot.
 
awsum140 said:
Can you give us a sketch of the physical connections of your LAN? That would help a lot.
Click to expand...
Sure. I'll give you the simple one. I have this switch (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HDB1SJU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1), a desktop computer on Windows, and a Dahua camera. I can connect on the switch to either the 4 ports ethernet, or the 1 port ethernet also described as uplink. That's it for now (ignore internet, which is on another router and connection). Do I need a router for this to work?
 
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Any suggestions? I wasn't able to communicate from the camera to the my computer on either a mac or PC. Do I just need to connect a router for this to work, or is there a way to communicate between two ipaddresses over a switch? That is fundamentally my problem at this time.

Stuart
 
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