New cam releases

[Defcon]

Just wondering where is the best place to find out if there any new Hikvision cams coming out? Got a few jobs coming up. These 5mp/8mp turrets seem to be the last cams to come out but not sure if they are worth putting in and should stick to the 3MP low level light turrets (2335)?

Any new low level light cams coming out soon with a higher MP?

Things seem to be quiet. Even the Dahua starlights have been out ages now.

 

[RBW]

You can now get low light Tvi cameras for a third of the price of IP cameras. A no brainier for me.

 

[fenderman]

You can now get low light Tvi cameras for a third of the price of IP cameras. A no brainier for me.

It's 2017...tvi should not be used on new installs.

 

[RBW]

It's 2017...tvi should not be used on new installs.

Reason? Please justify the x3 cost of IP.

 

[fenderman]

Reason? Please justify the x3 cost of IP.

First, TVI is not 1/3 the cost of ip.... a low light ip camera can be had for 100...you are not paying 33 dollars for a good low light tvi camera...You already know why ip I have explained this in many threads...over and over again...I get it, you are installing for others and want to pocket the extra money without disclosing the drawbacks of tvi to the buyer....classy.

 

[FrankMCN]

Not really as black & white as that - I offer both but it all depends on the customer and budget, as an installer part of that will be my pay yes.

I market TVI as lower cost entry level, still has a great picture. For a small-medium sized house with short cable runs and limited budget its perfect.

IP is marketed more for analytics, and the lossless nature of IP transmission, also its offsite capability make it intresting for some businesses, however there are some businesses like convineince stores or other high footfall stores were the cost/performance ratio of TVI makes it a now brainer if you want to flood the shop floor with lots of camera's.

Price, going off my UK trade suppliers, all proper regions and correct firmware with 3 year warranty on both: same resolution TVI turret is 40% the cost of the equivilant IP turret, recorders run a bit cheaper too but the kicker is a 4 channel TVI recorder is really a 5 channel as can take 1 IP camera, an 8 channel TVI can take 2 IP cameras, nice for customers that don't want to double the cost on the recorder just to get 1 more camera.

Both are viable options, some systems just fit better with certain properties and clients.

 

[Tolting Colt Acres]

TVI... how.... 90's.

 

[RBW]

TVI... how.... 90's.

Facts please.

"when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser"

 

[RBW]

For a small-medium sized house with short cable runs and limited budget its perfect.

Exactly. For a 1080p system with decent night images Tvi is perfect for residential and small commercial installs.

 

[RBW]

You already know why ip I have explained this in many threads...over and over again....

Nope. Only read the threads that interest me.

For an 8 camera or less install Tvi is ideal imo. The cost being the deciding factor. Only benefit i can see of IP on a small install is that it is a cleaner install as no psu required.

 

[FrankMCN]

PoC is a nice addition for TVI this year, making the switch to single RG59 runs (not shotgun), simpler installs, easier to route cables - no seperate power box, D8T line is low light as well so cracking night picture without some of the blurry image processing found on the IP camera's that you can't really tune out...

Also did i mention that the TVI motor lens camera's are cheaper then standard fixed lens IP cameras? real easy for an installer to get the perfect picture framing from the comfort of the recorder without having to mess around up ladders trying to focus a camera with the 2 stick nobs Hik give you on the manual VF IP cameras (you know the ones that cause the camera to go out of focus when you try and tighten them).

 

[fenderman]

Nope. Only read the threads that interest me.

For an 8 camera or less install Tvi is ideal imo. The cost being the deciding factor. Only benefit i can see of IP on a small install is that it is a cleaner install as no psu required.

Spoken like a true amateur..what does the number of cameras have to do with the best option?
Here are some benefits of ip.
1-SD card backup.
2-record to two locations simultaneously without relying on streaming from the DVR.
3-easily hide the NVR or move it.
4- many more options with built in audio
5- easily add a camera using a switch on the network - not having to homerun the install.

 

[fenderman]

PoC is a nice addition for TVI this year, making the switch to single RG59 runs (not shotgun), simpler installs, easier to route cables - no seperate power box, D8T line is low light as well so cracking night picture without some of the blurry image processing found on the IP camera's that you can't really tune out...

Also did i mention that the TVI motor lens camera's are cheaper then standard fixed lens IP cameras? real easy for an installer to get the perfect picture framing from the comfort of the recorder without having to mess around up ladders trying to focus a camera with the 2 stick nobs Hik give you on the manual VF IP cameras (you know the ones that cause the camera to go out of focus when you try and tighten them).

Wow, you are installing rg59 for the customer? further screwing them options down the road with no option for ip?
What is this blurry cracking you speak of? Stop making stuff up. Seems like you are comparing low light tvi to regular ip not low light ip...apples to oranges.
You are aware that there are motorized VF ip cameras as well and manual vf TVI? Why do you try to mislead by comparing motorized tvi with manual vf ip...and when you adjust you need to be on the ladder as the cams are not motorized pan tilt, surely you realized that as you zoom you will need to adjust the other axis as well?
Any installer who installs TVI on a new install without informing the customer is a FRAUDSTER.

 

[FrankMCN]

Can't say I really appreciate the insinuation that I'm a 'FRAUDSTER', you'll have to let all the CCTV manufacturers that their also being fraudulent by manufacturing TVI/CVI/AHD... Like I said in my earlier post (#6) I offer both options and show the benefits of both to a prospective client - most customers simply do not care what cables are used as long as the end result is in line with the installation specification which by the way will include fire safe LS0H cable where required, how many installers will do that? Many will just pull PVC/PE through all parts of a building with no regard to smoke inhalation.


Put simply I actually make more money on IP – I charge a straight factor of 1.4 across all equipment I supply and fit, the more expensive the equipment I sell the more I make, that said I’m not going to jeopardise an order by pushing a technology that is out of budget or offers features that are simply not of any interest to my client – I’d literally be wasting my time on a survey if I can’t build them a product they are willing to pay for.


Currently the motor lens IP camera’s are 3-4X the cost of the motor lens TVI, the manual lens are more than twice the price of the motor TVI and if your smart you can get them pointing the right way with a general focus and perfect it back at the recorder not up the ladder.

 

[fenderman]

Can't say I really appreciate the insinuation that I'm a 'FRAUDSTER', you'll have to let all the CCTV manufacturers that their also being fraudulent by manufacturing TVI/CVI/AHD... Like I said in my earlier post (#6) I offer both options and show the benefits of both to a prospective client - most customers simply do not care what cables are used as long as the end result is in line with the installation specification which by the way will include fire safe LS0H cable where required, how many installers will do that? Many will just pull PVC/PE through all parts of a building with no regard to smoke inhalation.


Put simply I actually make more money on IP – I charge a straight factor of 1.4 across all equipment I supply and fit, the more expensive the equipment I sell the more I make, that said I’m not going to jeopardise an order by pushing a technology that is out of budget or offers features that are simply not of any interest to my client – I’d literally be wasting my time on a survey if I can’t build them a product they are willing to pay for.


Currently the motor lens IP camera’s are 3-4X the cost of the motor lens TVI, the manual lens are more than twice the price of the motor TVI and if your smart you can get them pointing the right way with a general focus and perfect it back at the recorder not up the ladder.

I didnt insinuate it, I flat out said it. TVI has its place in limited situations for retrofit purposes not new installations.

 

[FrankMCN]

You’re a charming fellow Fenderman - simple fact is I do as my customers ask after presenting all options, if that makes me a 'Fraudster' in your view so be it, nowhere in Hik product briefings or the HSCA course I took the time to attend did it state that their TVI products are for retrofit only.

I’m sensing a lot of elitism from you on the subject not going to engage in the name calling - there's a market for both, simple as that.

 

[fenderman]

You’re a charming fellow Fenderman - simple fact is I do as my customers ask after presenting all options, if that makes me a 'Fraudster' in your view so be it, nowhere in Hik product briefings or the HSCA course I took the time to attend did it state that their TVI products are for retrofit only.

I’m sensing a lot of elitism from you on the subject not going to engage in the name calling - there's a market for both, simple as that.

I dont believe you properly explain the difference. Lol, Hik product briefings? is that where you are getting proper protocol from? Are they not the same folks who have had serious security issues with their products yet STILL recommend port forwarding? Im sure you explain this to your clients as well. You have proved my point.

 

[FrankMCN]

Everyone has security issues, Apple, Android, have a word with microsoft and ask them why they recommend port forwarding for Xbox live, uPnP has issues along with WPS and WPA2, if your using any kind of devie made by any of the above then under your logic you might as well bin it because... hackers... every company that makes something that can be connected to the internet is vulnerable... everyone.

Hik are absolutly anal about security these days thats why they killed the need for port forwarding with Hikconnect, have an activation process for all new equipment with no gimmicky passwords, require you to setup a proper account and email for remote access via Hikconnect, notify you immedialy and make you jump through hoops to disable stream encryption remotely.

But whatever you say, 'IP-master race' and all.

 

[fenderman]

Everyone has security issues, Apple, Android, have a word with microsoft and ask them why they recommend port forwarding for Xbox live, uPnP has issues along with WPS and WPA2, if your using any kind of devie made by any of the above then under your logic you might as well bin it because... hackers... every company that makes something that can be connected to the internet is vulnerable... everyone.

Hik are absolutly anal about security these days thats why they killed the need for port forwarding with Hikconnect, have an activation process for all new equipment with no gimmicky passwords, require you to setup a proper account and email for remote access via Hikconnect, notify you immedialy and make you jump through hoops to disable stream encryption remotely.

But whatever you say, 'IP-master race' and all.

No one has issues like hik and dahua..the fact that you compare the wpa2 issue shows you don't understand it....my point was that even after the mess...hik was telling users to enable Port forwarding when hik connect was having issues....hik connect itself is a security risk.... I will continue exposing installers like you... hopefully the end users will get the info before dumping money with fraudster installers... Btw claiming that hikvision is anal about security is a blatant lie... did you not see the thread on the wifi vulnerability and how long it took to respond?

 

[FrankMCN]

Actually I do understand the issue with WPA2 - should have been replaced years ago since all the encryption keys have been used more than once, but my point is that your likely happily using your wifi now aren’t you, or are you roaming the streets with a placard telling people to repent and turn off their wifi? keep up the crusade, seems the only reason you’re in the Hikvision sub-forum.

And yes I must be a fraudster since I commit the sin of installing RG59... oh look TVI can do 4K over coax. Its cool I can tell your just trolling me